Traitors amoung us; Cop threatens to shoot OC in the head

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I also found it funny that at least twice the officer told the citizen that he was stopping him and treating him like this because it's a world of "mass shooters and crazy people" and then went on to ask the citizen why he needed to be armed.

What a remarkable inconsistency...it's OK for me to be armed due to crazy people and mass shooters...but not for you to be armed.
 
SharpsDressedMan said:
Let's get very real, guys. We all would WANT an officer to respond to a the report of a guy walking down our street with a slung AR or AK, just as a preventative measure, and like it or not, AFTER they get a call "of an unusual nature" (and such a sight is, unfortunately, too unusual today for most folks), they pretty much HAVE to go check it out.
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Not me.

I don't want law enforcement getting in the habit of harassing individuals who aren't breaking any laws.

SharpsDressedMan said:
although my holster was unsnapped, and I could have ended a life in about 1/2 a second, if needed
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I think an excellent policy to institute would be to require a long and juicy report for justification anytime a LEO breaks retention on their holster.
 
Ooh! I bet a little bit of today's electronics could make that happen -- probably even real-time reporting back to dispatch.

Good idea!
 
SharpsDressedMan said:
We all would WANT an officer to respond to a the report of a guy walking down our street with a slung AR or AK, just as a preventative measure...
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Speak for yourself. A slung rifle wouldn't bother me. Nevertheless, if an officer responds to such a call, and observes that there is no law being broken, the 'subject' is under no compulsion whatsoever to engage the officer in a discussion.

SharpsDressedMan said:
...and I have also seen people locked up for MENTAL EVALUATION if the officer felt he was not "right" in the head, and could make a flimsy case to sign the guy in for observation. NOBODY wants that to happen, so a friendly short "compliance" of info, and an "on your way", is much preferred by both sides, so when slung, or armed, and making your "2nd Amendment" case on the street, be aware of that possible mental commitment.
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That wouldn't be tolerated by the courts here in Washington, which has repeatedly held that Article 1 Section 7 of our State Constitution is even more protective of civil rights than the US Constitution's 4th. If you were to lock me up for electing to walk away instead of discuss lawful activity, you'd be looking for a job soon enough.

Your rationale (above) is also why we advise that OCers do not engage the officer in any discussion beyond, "Am I being detained?" and if so, "For suspicion of what crime are you detaining me?" No court in Washington would side with an officer if the only 'suspicion' was the person's desire not to talk to the officer. There is substantial case law where people volunteered to talk to the police and went to jail- and the court pointed out that they had the option of walking away.
 
I was once on a scene where an officer (on my department, no less) drew down on a driver approaching us while on an alarm call.

Turned out to be a little old lady using the driveway to turn around. <Facepalm>

Suffice to say, he was broken of that bad habit right there and then, in addition to a long dissertation on how standing in front of a moving vehicle and shooting the driver would not be in his long-term best interest.

Simple fact is cops are taught to have their gun out at the slightest provocation, and there are generally no repercussions for pointing guns at folks for no reason; all in the interest of 'officer safety.' What's really scary is if you actually saw the average cop handle a firearm close-up and personal, they're the LAST person you'd trust for trigger discipline.

Holding police accountable for pointing weapons at people, threatening people and otherwise endangering the public they're supposed to be protecting is something that NEEDS to happen if we expect it to change.


Larry
 
While the subjects were within their rights, and were in the right, one would want to be careful not to be DEAD right. These guys didn't get frisky or overly mouthy which was a good play.

Within the last year I heard a news story on the radio of a man mowing his lawn with a pistol on his hip (open carry). Police came over and the officer ended up shooting and killing the homeowner in his front yard. The slain subject was a firearms instructor. I am not aware of the details of this case.

I support the rights of the guys walking down the street with a long gun but common sense had better be carried in equal measure when proving your point in a city environment.

316SS: I did a search and am not sure if this is the right link. However, if reported correctly, this is a story of a man who allegedly refused an officer's request to disarm and was shot. Even when LEO's, whom I support, are wrong I am not prone to argue with them while the situation is still "hot".
http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/news/2013-03-01/apd-officer-kills-man-in-north-austin/
 
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I have a gut feeling that a lot of you guys that don't understand the precautionary intent of the police here in this incident or other incidents have never carried a gun AND badge at the same time. A certain portion of the order that our society enjoys is provided by the presence and the risk that those that we employ to wear the badge and go to the aid of those not ready or ABLE to protect themselves. I know most on this site can protect themselves quite well, but few of those would want to strap on a gun, go out into foul weather or hazardous surroundings on demand, and do it day in and day out to protect someone ELSE. I did it for 20 years, I was damn good at it, and I tried to always treat people with the same respect I would have wanted, and trust me, that came from my personal first hand experience getting arrested as youth for a gun related "offense". I was particularly disappointed in the officer during MY encounter, and I carried that awareness of fairness and justice that I would have wanted into my service. If you folks that think unsnapping a gun and being ready to defend is too much, try serving as a cop for a few years, and then come back and tell us how restrained you were when your butt was on the line. Anything less is just B.S.
 
Assuredly. However, not germane in any way to the incident under discussion.

Unless you're defending this officer...
 
PS: These two cops were NOT acting like that cop in the Canton, Ohio incident. THAT cop needed to be criminally charged, lose his job and retirement, and lose HIS gun rights. NONE of that happened (as the Canton officer basically was only medically terminated, and kept everything else). Two very different ways by police to treat armed subjects, NEITHER of which were violating the law.
 
I have a gut feeling that a lot of you guys that don't understand the precautionary intent of the police here in this incident or other incidents have never carried a gun AND badge at the same time.
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Actually, I have for the past five years. Its videos like this that make me feel ashamed. But it also drives me to learn from and help correct these type of situations.
 
To a certain extent, I am defending them. You have to view the Canton Incident to compare to what extreme cops will go. These guys in this incident look like pussycats by comparison. On another note, it appears that different states have different levels and powers of determining mental incapacitation, and those powers granted to the police to intervene are different. Good thing to know, or study.
 
SharpsDressedMan said:
NONE of that happened (as the Canton officer basically was only medically terminated, and kept everything else). Two very different ways by police to treat armed subjects, NEITHER of which were violating the law.
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Last I saw the city had to pay him also....not to mention he gets retired officer status, which I believe gives him a concealed carry permit throughout the nation.
 
A badge is just a symbol, and sometimes a very unfortunate example of misplaced authority. I have talked three different cops out of their reasoning for pulling me over by arguing their logic and winning. I should have been a cop. I would be retiring next year.
 
HoploDad,

I realize you heard that on the radio, but do you have a link?

316SS: I did a search and am not sure if this is the right link. However, if reported correctly, this is a story of a man who allegedly refused an officer's request to disarm and was shot. Even when LEO's, whom I support, are wrong I am not prone to argue with them while the situation is still "hot".
http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/news/2013-03-01/apd-officer-kills-man-in-north-austin/
 
To all who say you shouldn't open carry because of the social climate of the day....

Say you lived in 1955 and you saw the news about Rosa Parks sitting at the front of the bus. She did this full well knowing the ramifications with the law (just like today's OCs). Would you excoriate her because the social climate of the day looked down upon that activity (even if you personally didn't)? And keep in mind what she did was ILLEGAL at the time (as opposed to perfectly legal with the OC incidents). Comon people have you never heard of CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE? We don't get things changed in this country by sitting on our hands and whining on the internet we do it by getting out there and challenging the norms, that's exactly how the Dems have progressed their agenda so far. This is called fighting fire with fire, and sometimes it gets ugly but it has to be done if there is any hope changing the social norms.
 
SharpsDressedMan said:
To a certain extent, I am defending them. You have to view the Canton Incident to compare to what extreme cops will go. These guys in this incident look like pussycats by comparison.
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Yep. By comparison. Yet the only valid comparison is their between their actions and those that are legally, ethically, and professionally justifiable. Surely you aren't suggesting that any behavior is justified as long as a more egregious example can be found?
 
HoploDad said:
HoploDad,

I realize you heard that on the radio, but do you have a link?

316SS: I did a search and am not sure if this is the right link. However, if reported correctly, this is a story of a man who allegedly refused an officer's request to disarm and was shot. Even when LEO's, whom I support, are wrong I am not prone to argue with them while the situation is still "hot".
http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/news/2013-03-01/apd-officer-kills-man-in-north-austin/
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The founding fathers were probably in many "hot" situations when they first started protesting the crown. I'm sorry but if some of yall had been in the shoes of the founding fathers I fear we would be a Commonwealth under the crown today instead of a truly independent nation. Lord knows if the founding fathers were put in our shoes today they probably would have revolted against D.C. back in the 50s if not earlier.
 
HoploDad-

Thanks for the link. That individual discharged a firearm (killed a dog) which is a crime in many jurisdictions, albiet one with an affirmative defense. He then refused to disarm and, reportedly, drew and aimed at the officer. Would you agree that is a little different that an officer investigating an individual open carrying on private property, and shooting him, presumably with no provovation? By the way, I agree with your general point (see disclaimer in post #93).

CDT
 
Rushthezeppelin said:
The founding fathers were probably in many "hot" situations when they first started protesting the crown.
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They certainly were.

There were arrest orders for Paul Revere and Samuel Adams on the night of April 18/April 19 1775, as but one teeny tiny example.

Overall many of the founding fathers suffered dearly as a result of their actions.
 
316SS said:
HoploDad-

Thanks for the link. That individual discharged a firearm (killed a dog) which is a crime in many jurisdictions, albiet one with an affirmative defense. He then refused to disarm and, reportedly, drew and aimed at the officer. Would you agree that is a little different that an officer investigating an individual open carrying on private property, and shooting him, presumably with no provovation? By the way, I agree with your general point (see disclaimer in post #93).

CDT
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316SS, We don't really know the facts or investigation results, although I found another link:
http://digitaltexan.net/2013/austin...olice-officer-involved-shooting/article48356/

But yes it appears to be a different situation. And as far as the post featuring the founding fathers analogy, that is a misinterpretation of my point. I'm not saying that the young gentleman should not have walked down the street, armed. I am saying that when you DO take that action in a city setting, think through how you'll respond when (not if) stopped. And don't endanger yourself with sanctimonious, vehement "I'm in the right" actions. In fact I am applauding the way these guys handled the situation. They left unhurt, I have to believe the officers were reprimanded in some way and we are all talking about this, giving good publicity to the 2nd Ammendment's cause.
 
Times have changed, people.

OC is just not a bright idea. I don't like that it can now get you into more trouble than it's worth these days, but the fact remains that folks are now mentally trained to be really freaked by the sight of a gun.

The cop was totally overbearing. He made his point, but didn't need to make it again, and again. I agree with his point, but also hate that this is now where we are at.
Walking down the street with a long gun is going to attract attention these days, period.

Were the two guys friends? If they were, why were they walking so far apart?
I'd see that as suspicious myself.

The cops may have diffused a situation. They may have almost created one.

Who knows?

I find this one taxing, as well as weird.
 
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