Transporting a handgun from NC to NJ on a motorcycle?

[BCC]

I would like to transport a handgun from my primary residence in NC (where I have a CCL) to my temporary apartment in NJ.

I would be on a motorcycle, with the firearm unloaded and locked in a pannier (metal side case) and a couple of boxes of ammunition, locked in a separate pannier. I would be riding from one residence to another, with rest stops and fuel.

As best I can tell, this is legal. But given NJ gun laws I wouldn't want to make a mistake. Am I right?

Thanks,

 

[GRIZ22]

Sounds like you're good to go. It sounds like you're doing everything right.

You'll need to be brought up to speed on other NJ gun laws which you'll find here,

http://njsp.org/about/firearms.html

 

[Hypnogator]

Do you have the requisite permits to own a handgun in NJ? If not, then no, it would not be legal.

 

[xr1200]

In most states having pistol on a motorcycle is considered carrying a concealed weapon and you require a CCW permit

 

[nalioth]

In most commie states having pistol on a motorcycle is considered carrying a concealed weapon and you require a CCW permit

Fixed that for you.

Regardless,

If the gun is in a secured box attached to a motor vehicle, where the operator can't get to it, well, that sounds like it's covered under FOPA to me.

Again, make sure you don't need a permit or whatever once you get there (last I looked, you DID NOT need a permit to own pistols in NJ, but just needed a "purchase permit" to buy them).

 

[BCC]

Do you have the requisite permits to own a handgun in NJ? If not, then no, it would not be legal.

Well, there's something I hadn't thought about. I'd just presumed it would be possible to keep a legally purchased weapon in my residence, as long as I could get it there. More reading to do.

 

[geekWithA.45]

I'm not a lawyer, blah blah blah.

My understanding is that there is no legal impediment for a non prohibited person bringing a handgun that is not defined as an assault weapon into his new residence in the state. I am not aware of any requirement for permit, paperwork, FID or registration.

The motorcyle frightens me a bit, as the statutes are very car centric in how the exemptions are laid out, and citizens do NOT get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[GRIZ22]

Do you have the requisite permits to own a handgun in NJ? If not, then no, it would not be legal.


There is no requirement to have a permit to possess a handgun in NJ if it was legally acquired elsewhere only a permit to purchase. There is voluntary registration (I wonder how many of those they get). Gun laws in NJ are ass backwards compared to most other places. In most places the law tells you what you cannot do. In NJ all guns and ammunition is illegal unless the law allows you to do something.

If you are going to be in NJ for any period of time it might behoove you to get a New Jersey Firearms ID Card. Do you have any idea how temporary this move will be?

 

[xcgates]

I would be *very* certain that the statutes don't apply to an enclosed vehicle. I can't remember specific situations, however I do remember reading some statutes that were very easy to interpret as not applying to a motorcycle.

Whether that is because most people don't think about motorcycles having any hard lockable containers.

I am interested as I very rarely drive a cage, and at the same time would caution you to read the specific statutes, as NJ is among the states I would not want to be anything other than clearly in the right. Even that won't let you beat the ride. You will just have an avenue of recourse.

From the NJ FAQ about guns:

Firearms shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.

Ammunition must be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

I see no "Permit to own", however I do believe you need one sort or another of NJ permit to purchase ammunition, something to think about if you are going to be doing any regular shooting. I would also investigate the strict definition of "automobile", though having lockable panniers would seem to cover that. (But never rely on law or the government to be logical.)

So what kind of bike are you planning on taking?

::EDIT:: OT, however, I would like to point out that along with CA and NY, NJ is on my list of places to never go unless I have to. Lived in CA and NY, have visited NJ, and have no need to support those states. NC is a much nicer place from what I've seen. Summer job by any chance?

 

[fyrfytr]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/gun_owner_brian_aitken_is_rele.html

This guy was 100% legal and still spent 4 months in prison.

 

[BCC]

Thanks for all the comments so far.

The bike is a BMW r1200 GS Adventure. The residence has been temporary for months, waiting until the existing home in NC sells, so I can buy a permanent home. New job's the reason. I do like southern NJ.

I want to bring one of the bikes up now that the weather will be getting better, so I'm hoping I could bring up one of the handguns at the same time.

Thanks,

 

[General Geoff]

If your place of employment is anywhere near the Delaware, I'd strongly recommend looking at permanent residence in Pennsylvania. The difference between NJ and PA might as well be East Germany vs West Germany during the Cold War, in terms of gun laws and associated police attitude toward even legal firearms and firearm owners.

For what it's worth, I would never ever transport a firearm into NJ for any reason. You're far more likely to have your life ruined by their "justice" system than have your life ruined by a criminal who might have been stopped with a firearm.

 

[GRIZ22]

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index....-the-first-time-wgun-and-ammo/page__p__221122

Here is a recent post from another forum. This guy did the same as you are proposing. NJSP told him that was good. You can call NJSP Firearms Unit as he did.

You may want to peruse that forum to egt more of an idea what gun ownership is like in NJ.

If you are moving to NJ you must get your NJ DL before you get the Firearms ID card which you will want if you're moving to NJ. I believe you will be able to buy pistol ammo in NJ with your NC DL as ID. Not sure of this.

NJ is a nice place to live with a wide variety of things to do but ahs draconian gun laws which I will not make any excuse for. General Geoff is correct that PA is a state that recognizes the 2A while in NJ all firearms and ammo are illegal except what the state allows you to do.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...n_is_rele.html

This guy was 100% legal and still spent 4 months in prison

He was not 100% legal. He had magazines holding over 15 rds which is a felony in NJ. He had hollowpoints and a handgun in his possession. If you read enough on this case there seems to be some question if he was actually moving to a new residence. He was offered a plea to one year but refused it. I don't know if he had bad legal adive or was stupid not to take it. Yes these laws suck but to say he was 100% legal is totally inaccurate.

 

[fyrfytr]

You are correct about the high cap magazines. The real
kicker though, at trial the judge would not allow testimony
by several witnesses that the defendant was In the process
of moving. Nj gun law is nothing to take lightly, make
sure your T's are crossed and I's dotted.

High jack over.

 

[Tom488]

I believe you will be able to buy pistol ammo in NJ with your NC DL as ID. Not sure of this.

Not anymore. Purchase of handgun ammo in NJ now requires an FID or pistol purchase permit.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Purchase of handgun ammo in NJ now requires an FID or pistol purchase permit.

Sigh.

Just come to PA. We'll sell you ammo.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[CaptHank]

New Jersey.... I moved to Pennsylvania as soon as I retired. I'm now in Florida, thank goodness. I wouldn't live in New Jersey, Rent Free.

I can recall having to contact the State Senator to jump start the local police to release my "Pistol Permits". Strange, the very next day, I got a call that I could pick them up. I would apply for 3 at a time. I was even questioned can I afford to buy 3 handguns in 90 days.

Capt. Hank

 

[KX592]

Just a heads up here bud, you may have everything correct as for transportation requirements, however you NEED to have a FID card to possess ANY firearm in NJ, this even includes pellet rifles, thats how touchy the law is. To bring the gun into the state you need the FID or else you are illegally possessing a firearm and also make sure you have no larger than a 15rnd mag.

Sounds overkill, tell me about it..If you cannot obtain the FID which takes up to 8-9 months, do not bring anything into the state, you also need to be a resident of the state to be eligible for the FID. Its simply not worth the risk leave it at home.

 

[xcgates]

I can see the requirements for purchasing or carrying a firearm.

I cannot find, however, anything on New Jersey websites requiring a permit for ownership. There are forms for the transfer of ownership, as well as voluntary registration. Can someone please cite where you need to have a permit to own a handgun? Because a bunch of websites say you have to have a permit to own a handgun, but don't provide references. (Even the much vaunted Wikipedia. )

The laws
The forms

 

[KX592]

^^There is no permit to "own" its directly stated you need the FID to "possess" any firearm within the state. Difference is so if an LEO stops someone and sees or notices a firearm in the vehicle, they should automatically be given a FID or they need to pull the person out. Apparently there is a difference between own and possessing, I live in the state and still dont fully understand.

Best option is always to go without bringing anything in the state

 

[GRIZ22]

however you NEED to have a FID card to possess ANY firearm in NJ,

No! You need a FID to purchase long guns and to purchase pistol ammo as has been said above. You can read through the state laws on the NJSP website or the condensed NRA version,

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NJSL.pdf

There is no requirement to have a NJFID or registration for any guns legally acquired when you were residing in another state.

Can someone please cite where you need to have a permit to own a handgun?

There is no cite becasue no permit is required to own any gun you legally acquired as a resident of another state. No magazines over 15 rds and you need to pay attention to the "assault weapon" law but if it passes and no permit is required.

Difference is so if an LEO stops someone and sees or notices a firearm in the vehicle,

If you are transporting it properly as required by state law how is someone going to see it? I lived in NJ for over 50 years and spent 30+ as a LEO.

 

[GRIZ22]

This is from the NRA link I posted above and is directly quoted from state law.

however, no Permit to Carry or FID is required:
1. To keep or carry any firearm about a person’s place of business, residence, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him; a place of business shall be deemed a fixed location.
2. To carry any firearm unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported and the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, from one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair.
3. To transport such firearms as necessary for target practice, in the manner described in paragraph 2 above, by a member of a gun club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice in going to or from a place of target practice, provided the club has filed a copy of its charter with the Superintendent of State Police and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent.
4. To transport any firearm, in the manner described in paragraph 2 above, while traveling:
a. Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided such person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license.
b. Directly to or from any target range or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions.
c. Directly to or from any exhibition or display of firearms which is sponsored by any law enforcement agency, any gun club or gun collectors club for the purpose of displaying the firearms to the public or to members of such organization or club, provided that not less than 30 days prior to such exhibition or display notice shall be given to the Superintendent of State Police by the sponsoring organization or club and the sponsor has complied with such reasonable safety regulations as the superintendent may promulgate.
5. To carry a firearm in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice, or fishing, provided that the firearm is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and the person possesses a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license.
6. To transport firearms by a licensed dealer in firearms and his registered employees during the course of normal business, provided the firearms are transported in the manner described in paragraph 2 above

 

[bushmaster1313]

I see no "Permit to own", however I do believe you need one sort or another of NJ permit to purchase ammunition, something to think about if you are going to be doing any regular shooting. I would also investigate the strict definition of "automobile", though having lockable panniers would seem to cover that. (But never rely on law or the government to be logical.)

Possessing a handgun in one's residence is an exception to the prohibition of all handguns.

Make sure you legally acquired the gun and that you are allowed to possess it at your starting point.

You need the Firearm Purchasers I.D. card to buy pistol ammo.

Do not have any hollow points on you. (legal to possess at your residence, but why tempt fate.)

 

[xcgates]

Thank you Griz22 and Bushmaster1313, while I myself do not wish to be in NJ, having lived in NY, and having dealt with NY laws, as well as a lot of mis-information about said laws, I was trying to figure out if NJ had some form of "handgun ownership permit."

It may seem ridiculous to those not in NJ, however I think it is pretty clear that you do not need an "ownership permit." Your life may be more difficult if you don't get one, however spreading false information is not good. Folks from states like NJ, NY, and don't forget CA, often have people misrepresent the laws.

That isn't to say I won't support anyone trying to improve the situation, of course!

 

[leadcounsel]

Well, there was big news in the last few months about a man going to prison for 7 years for wrongful possession of firearms and/or components. I don't recall the details but I think he moved from Colorado to NJ with some hollowpoints and 15 round mags in his car. Was convicted despite the honest mistake. He may have been pardoned by the Governor. It was all over the news and even this forum.

Whatever you do, be careful!