Transporting a handgun from NC to NJ on a motorcycle?

[clamman]

The county Sheriff here is a freind of mine, and he very strongly suggested to me to get a concealed permit for carrying on my motorcycle. He said so many cops interpet it in their own way (which is a shame) so just be safe and get one.

 

[DK24]

The county Sheriff here is a freind of mine, and he very strongly suggested to me to get a concealed permit for carrying on my motorcycle. He said so many cops interpet it in their own way (which is a shame) so just be safe and get one

Thats good advise, the last time I checked NC didn't have any case law concerning the definition of concealed weapon. A few years back I know of at least one LEO agency that said it was ok to transport a firearm in a locked glove box, while one county over another agency would arrest for it. Go figure.....

 

[schneider38]

I would tread lightly in your situation. Remember, your end destination is in NJ so federal safe passage in NJ is out of the question. You MUST follow NJ statutes. Your decision in the end is your own, however the following may help you make your decision easier:

2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons

c. Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.


2C:39-6 Exemptions

e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

Subsection G provides the method of transport while moving, driving to range, gunsmith etc.

All firearms transported into the State of New Jersey:
Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

Long story short is this, if you are driving to NJ you cannot claim federal safe passage, thus must comply with NJ law. Unless you are at home or at your place of business you NEED a NJ FID card. This includes driving in your car with the gun unloaded and in your trunk going to the range, or to your new home in NJ.

The afrementioned is the LAW in NJ, it is not he said she said, these are the statutes.

 

[Zoogster]

The statute would appear to allow the OP to take a described firearm unloaded in a locked container on his motorcycle.
Once crossing state lines it would require him to never deviate from his path and go straight to his home.

The statute references rifles and shotguns, and from what I gather handgun legality is based on inference from exemptions?



The statute says requires a specified container OR the trunk (presumably a gun in an actual trunk with not need to be in a container as a result.)
Suitable containers appear to be "fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package"

A securely tied package would be essentially a cardboard box taped up, and just to be more complete tie some ribbon around it so it cannot be opened without removal of the ribbon.



So it would appear the method of bringing the gun is there.

The county Sheriff here is a freind of mine, and he very strongly suggested to me to get a concealed permit for carrying on my motorcycle.

While this pertains to a comment from someone in another state than the OP and with completely different laws:

A motorcycle is a legal automobile. It must be registered, and gets a license plate.

I wouldn't carry on my person on a motorcycle even when it is legal in an automobile (but not carried concealed outside of the vehicle) for the simple fact that you have to get off the motorcycle and then would not be "in" the vehicle and yet would still have a concealed handgun. There is some states where there is that situation.
Removing the gun from your person before getting off is impractical and will draw attention.
However if something is legal in an automobile then having it on a motorcycle is going to be no different.
If your law requires it in a locked container or inaccessible then stick it in a locking container on the bike.
If the law just requires it off person, you can stick it in a bag. If the law requires it unloaded or allows it to be loaded, that is the same in a car or on a bike.

Lots of people transport firearms in SUVs, pickup trucks, and other motor vehicles without a trunk such as motorcycles.
If they follow the same guidelines they should be fine.
If a minority group of automobile drivers are allowing themselves to be arbitrarily targeted and subjected to different interpretations of the same law then they need to stand up for themselves and have some representation remedy the situation. This is typically done through lawsuits filed by a representative group if it cannot be done through appealing to an elected official.

 

[Tom488]

Unless you are at home or at your place of business you NEED a NJ FID card. This includes driving in your car with the gun unloaded and in your trunk going to the range, or to your new home in NJ.

Wrong, wrong, utterly and completely wrong.... folks, while the NJ firearms statutes are far from plain english, they're still written in english, and should not be this hard to comprehend.

First... 2C:39-6e provides an exemption for transporting between one residence and another while moving. 2C:39-6f(3)(b) provides an exemption for transporting to/from a target range.

And finally, since the original topic here was transportation of a handgun, an FID card is ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS. There are only two ways to legally possess a handgun in NJ. As spelled out in 2C:39-5b, if you have a permit to carry, you can legally possess a handgun. Otherwise, you have to fall in to one of the exemptions of 2C:39-6. Briefly, that's possession in your home or place of business... transporting to/from a place of purchase, transporting to/from a place of repair, transporting between residences while moving, transporting to/from a place of target practice.

An FID permits you to purchase shotguns and rifles... it lets you purchase handgun ammunition... it also lets you GENERALLY possess UNLOADED rifles and shotguns (reference 2C:39-5c(1) and 2C:39-5c(2)).

 

[GambJoe]

Three concerns in NJ are mag capacity, the ammo cannot be a dum dum (hollow point) variety, the third is more complicated.

If you are traveling with a fire arm directly to and from lets say the range and your home you are ok. Magazines cannot be loaded. Ammo seperate from firearm. Firearm in locked container or trunk.

You can move to NJ with any firearm, magazine, or ammo they have not banned. There is no registration if you don't want to (the LE recommends it).

Being caught in NJ with a firearm in your temporary residence or car without a NJ drivers licence. I think you should consult a lawyer first.

 

[Zoogster]

A few years back I know of at least one LEO agency that said it was ok to transport a firearm in a locked glove box, while one county over another agency would arrest for it. Go figure.....

The NC law essentially says it is a violation if readily accessible for immediate use and it is concealed.
But NC allows it to be loaded, which is a huge part of making it ready for immediate use when also within reach.
But interstate transport is going to require it unloaded, so that alone significantly reduces the ability to consider it readily available for immediate use in NC.

So if openly carried in any manner, or concealed and stored in such a manner as to be unusable to the driver or occupants of the vehicle it is legal in NC.
The glove box is often thought of as immediately accessible.
It is also where a lot of people go when looking for registration or other things when police pull them over, so it is to be expected that some LEO agencies will go out of their way to interpret storage of a loaded gun there is not allowable if they feel they have that discretion.

But on a motorcycle it could be in a saddle bag or tied down or otherwise kept in a manner that does not provide for access or use while driving down the road (or to a passenger if carrying one) even while loaded. While unloaded and especially in any of the containers required by NJ law, it certainly is not going to violate NC law.

Openly displayed also bypasses the restrictions in NC.
One could as a result also strap a firearm or holster/scabbard to the bike and transport a loaded firearm openly in NC.
Though that is sure to get unwanted attention, and would not allow crossing state lines.


The legal method that would provide the same method of transport in NC and NJ would appear to be unloaded in any container described in NJ law.
NJ law does not even require it is a locked container: "fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package".
A fastened container or tied up box would be fine, so certainly one actually locked meets and exceeds the requirements.
Some locked gun case in a saddle bag or strapped down near the rear should be fine, or in a locked container within gear otherwise secured on the bike. Toss it in a locked box and throw that box in another piece of luggage or gear.

One would of course have to go slightly further to follow FOPA requirements if that method is in violation of any jurisdictions in between NC and NJ to allow for FOPA protections from states in between prior to crossing NJ state lines.

 

[GRIZ22]

Well, there was big news in the last few months about a man going to prison for 7 years for wrongful possession of firearms and/or components. I don't recall the details but I think he moved from Colorado to NJ with some hollowpoints and 15 round mags in his car.

See post #13. There are too many unanswered questions about this guy to hold him up as a poster boy.

Unless you are at home or at your place of business you NEED a NJ FID card.

Wrong see post #22 which is the NJ statute. You can still go to the range, gunshop, or any of the otehr exemptions listed in the statute.

Magazines cannot be loaded.

Never heard of this being required in NJ. Mot mentioned in the statute.

 

[Tom488]

Magazines cannot be loaded.
Never heard of this being required in NJ. Mot mentioned in the statute.

You're right - it's not in any statute. Also not in the statutes is what constitutes a loaded firearm. It's the opinion of a prominent NJ firearms lawyer that a loaded magazine COULD be construed as a loaded firearm - therefore, he advises magazines to be kept unloaded during transport.

It comes down to a "better safe than sorry" approach. After all, in the immortal words of a former NJ appellate judge, "When dealing with firearms, the citizen acts at his peril".

 

[geekWithA.45]

The premise that mags couldn't be filled was not commonly operative when I was resident there, 6, 7 years ago. That's relatively new. The key was to observe the strict separation of guns & ammo, and to keep the loaded mags with the ammo. What was often suggested during my tenure there was to take the separation of guns and ammo to an extreme: guns in the trunk, ammo in the passenger compartment, but out of reach.

I guess you'd need to make a diagram of specifically where in your vehicle you could put stuff.

Sheesh. The fact that such things even merit consideration = What a steaming pile.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

I'm behind the curve, just now reading reprinted December news in my Washington Arms Collectors "Gun News" about Gov. Chris Christie commuting Brian Aitken's sentence. But do a Google search for Gov chris christie commutes brian aitken sentence then starting hitting the news links and reading the story.

While I cannot understand why anyone in his right mind would transport anyone or anything TO New Jersey, I'll forego further comment on that. I'll merely point out that someone trying his best to "do it legally" can still wind up sentenced to seven years in prison.

And never forget that just because you're told what is legal by police, government agencies, etc. does NOT mean the people arresting you will agree that it's legal or even care about following the law. Nor will the courts.

If you absolutely must go to New Jersey (other than to save the life of a loved one, I can't think of an adequate reason), then do so. But if you take a gun, and the State's Minions learn of it (whether by illegal search or faked "drug dog probable cause"), they will do their utmost to make your life hell.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Do yourself an enormous favor and leave the pistol at home. The last thing you want to do is rely on a NJ cop to make the right call while standing on the side of the road staring at a dude on a motorcycle with a gun. He will ticket you, and best case scenario is $5000 in lawyers fees and a lot of time spent worrying if you are going to be wrongly convicted of a felony--ask me how I know.

 

[GRIZ22]

I'll merely point out that someone trying his best to "do it legally" can still wind up sentenced to seven years in prison.


See post #13. There are too many unanswered questions about this guy to hold him up as a poster boy.


He said something to his Mother that caused her to call the police. He left there and his Mother called him to come back when the police got there. He came back and was talking to the police for two hours before he was arrested. He was claiming the gun and hollowpoints were legal as he was moving. Somewhere he also said his room mate did not want the guns in the house while he was having a party. Which is true? There is no getting around the high cap magazines. This guy is supposed to be some IT wizard and he can't find out that mags over 15 rds are illegal in NJ by going to the NJ State Police or NRA-ILA website. He was offered a plea deal which he turned down because he thought he was not guilty in spite of the fact that by this time he had to know the magazines were not legal. When gun rights organizations offered to rally in his support he disassociated himself with them.

I'm not defending NJ gun laws (there is no defense to them) but this guy victimized himself. It's the same as cutting down your shotgun barrel to 12" and still claiming you're not guilty.

Most of the horror stories people relate about NJ and other states don't tell the entire story. Only what they want to tell others. There are at least a few thousand people with guns that move to NJ every year that don't get arrest. This guy could have been one of them.

 

[BCC]

I'm the OP.

After careful consideration, I concluded it's legal to transport a handgun between residences in NC & NJ.

I'm of the opinion an acceptable methodology would be with an unloaded weapon, ammo and magazines, legal in NJ, all locked in separate panniers on the motorcycle and with the handgun further locked inside a portable safe.

A prudent person would obey traffic laws during the trip.

Of course, I've been wrong many times before.

 

[andrewstorm]

dont go to n.j...............

....the sapranos state,and garden state (IF your growing smoke stacks)haS plenty of law abiding citizens to throw in jail ,while habitual felons walk the streets with gang signs and glocks ,new jersey the bunghole of america illl never step foot in that state .

 

[oneounceload]

Apparently there is a difference between own and possessing,

Your brother owns the hunting rifle and you are borrowing it to go hunting and it is in your possession sounds most likely

Found this:

New Jersey Law also states that before possessing or transporting any rifle or shotgun without first having obtained a New Jersey firearms purchaser identification card (FPIC), or possessing or transporting any handgun without first having obtained a New Jersey handgun carry permit is a violation of their law.

from handgunlaw.us

 

[GRIZ22]

possessing or transporting any handgun without first having obtained a New Jersey handgun carry permit is a violation of their law.

from handgunlaw.us


Well...handgunlaw is wrong on this. If this were the case there would be only a handful of people in the state that could possess or transport a handgun as NJ carry permits are virtually impossible to get unless you are a retired LEO. If you go to http://njsp.org/about/firearms.html you will find (as already has been posted in this thread):

1. You do not need any permit or license to possess a long gun or handgun you legally acquired elsewhere in NJ.
2. You do need a Firearms ID card to purchase ammo.
3. You can legally transport any firearm (unloaded, locked up, etc IAW FOPA requirements) to another residence, a gunsmith, hunting (need hunting license) or to a range without any permits or licenses. You must be going directly to or from one of these activities.
4. There is no mandatory firearms registration in NJ.

 

[Tom488]

illl never step foot in that state

Thank you. I'll sleep better knowing that.