Trap guns, field guns, frustration with scores

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ArmedBear

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Yesterday, my club had an inter-club trap shoot, which happens in the San Diego area somewhere every few months. I didn't remember, since I didn't think I'd be able to make it.

So, I showed up late in the morning with an old 1100 Magnum field gun with a plain barrel, and found that I couldn't shoot 5-stand since the range had been appropriated for the trap event. However, I got on a squad and shot for my club.

I shot 85/100 with that gun. I'd hardly ever even used it before, and it has a field stock an no rib! That's around my average for trap league, with a BT-99. I've never shot 25 straight with the Browning, ever, whereas I'd done it a few times with a cheap 870 before I sprung for the BT.

Bottom line? I shoot trap better with an 870 or 1100 28" field gun than I do with my 34" BT-99 (pre-95 model with competition foreend, but similar to current version). I have shot thousands of rounds through the BT, and it seems to fit me fine. If I shot that 1100 as often, I'd probably be averaging 24 per round.

Any thoughts? Do I sell the BT? Is there such thing as a gun that appears to fit, but just doesn't work right for a shooter, with any amount of practice?

Any insight appreciated!
 
It's about expectations. Your mind thinks that because you are shooting the field gun you won't score as well so you are less focused on the score and therefore score better than expected.

When you use the BT99 you are intent on hitting birds because it is after all the gun that you bought to shoot high scores at trap. When you expect to do well sometimes you don't.

My theory on trap is that if you are going to shoot it well you should have a dedicated trap gun and shoot no other game. If you are going to shoot various games get a gun suitable for sporting clays because on average you will do better with it than switching guns between the games. YMMV.
 
My theory on trap is that if you are going to shoot it well you should have a dedicated trap gun and shoot no other game. If you are going to shoot various games get a gun suitable for sporting clays because on average you will do better with it than switching guns between the games.

I agree with this totally! That's why I shoot a sporting clays model for all games. I shoot Trap in the mid 20's consistantly with it, and get a few 25's here and there. Sporting clays I usually score in the 40's out of 50 birds. Now Skeet that's another story...ha ha....I just started that game but am improving, I let the 1st time out go to my head ,missing 1 bird and it wasnt on #8 either. We wont talk about the last round(my second) oh gezzz. As for the BT99 >Armed >..good gun .stick to trap with it and maybe it will or wont work for you , at which time you come to that ultimate decision Yah or Nah.
 
My theory on trap is that if you are going to shoot it well you should have a dedicated trap gun and shoot no other game. If you are going to shoot various games get a gun suitable for sporting clays because on average you will do better with it than switching guns between the games. YMMV.

Here, I'll quote that part as well. I think dedicated trap guns work well for folks who only shoot trap. As you are aware, my main game is sporting clays. I shoot guns which are geared for that, even when I shoot trap.

The really good trap shooters I know all use dedicated trap guns. They also flat-out SUCK at sporting clays. I'm sure there are numerous exceptions, but the guys who can run 100's at trap also seem to be they guys who end up with scores near the bottom of "D" class when they shoot registered sporting events. I've got a number of theories about this (which might make an interesting thread in and of itself).

IMO, if a good portion of your shooting is made up of sporting clays and 5-stand, then your gun(s) should reflect this. It's easier to shoot a 50/50 patterning field-type gun at a variety of games then it is to shoot a high-shooting trap gun at anything besides trap... or to switch between the two.

I shoot a LOT of different shotguns... but all are either set up or sporting clays or field guns. When I shoot trap on occasion, I typically average 24/25, and will run them around 1/3rd of the time. Especially at the 16 yard line, there's little advantage in a true trap gun.
 
Trapper.u said a mouthful in that last paragraph.ha

I laid off clays for a number of yrs and back then shot all trap. I got back into shooting again recently but before I did sold my trap gun and bought a sporting gun figuring I wanted to shoot more than just one game.. I havent regretted selling the trap gun nor buying the sporting. PS the guy I shoot a lot with now is shooting my ol' trap gun and does quite well with it at that game. I just like the versitility of the sporting gun which allows me to shoot all games. I can hold my own on any course! By no means knocking the trap only folks
 
Some rather good shotgunners use a trap style shotgun for the other games and do well.

Others don't, including me. My TB does well at trap and is a little ponderous for the other games. That's even with a LC barrel and a hatful of tubes.

Number 6 is my choice right now. The differences include weight and balance, Stocking is also different with a shorter LOP and no M/C comb. It weighs close to 1.25 lbs less.

I doubt there's a clear answer to your query,Bear. Shoot the BT if it pleases you to do so.

But if I shot better with my old 1100, I'd probably use that....
 
Dave - With me, ponderous isn't much of a problem, nor is weight. Mostly I have trouble if guns shoot to a dramatically different POI than I'm used to. The trap guns I've shot have tended to shoot 80/20 or even more, which requires that I float the bird quite a bit. With all the sporting I shoot, if the gun doesn't shoot fairly flat, I'll tend to go right over the top more often than I'd like.

I'm sure that there are folks who can switch back and forth between trap and the other games without much problem, but I know far more that have serious difficulty. There are guys I have shot with in a trap league who are very, very good (one has run 500+ in competition) yet struggle (sometimes mightily) when on a sporting clays course.

On the flip-side, most of the decent sporting clay shooters I know can knock out a fairly credible score when shooting trap.
 
I would check the pattern height of the Browning. If the gun "fits" you and you like shooting it, it may just be too "high" for the way you are shooting it, i.e shooting over the bird.

If you don't care which gun you shoot, shoot the one you shoot best. ;)
 
TR, I like a high POI for everything. The TB and I shoot around 80/20, the others more like 60/40.

And yes, I do shoot over the odd bird more than under them.
 
There are guys I have shot with in a trap league who are very, very good (one has run 500+ in competition) yet struggle (sometimes mightily) when on a sporting clays course.

On the flip-side, most of the decent sporting clay shooters I know can knock out a fairly credible score when shooting trap.
That's been my experience too. I shoot a couple of mixed target competitions each year. Without fail it is the sporting clays shooters that tend to do best overall.

I came to my conclusion about switching guns and games a few years ago. At the time I was shooting a dedicated trap gun and had an o/u for sporting clays and skeet. I was shooting more trap at the time but getting increasingly involved with sporting clays.

There came a time when my well used trap gun needed a factory rebuild and in the interim I started shooting trap with my sporting clays gun. Initially my trap scores took a drop but after a few weeks started to come back up. What I noticed however is that ALL my scores started to improve.

When I got my refurbed trap gun back I sold it and my sporting gun and bought a higher grade o/u which I am still shooting today.
 
Thanks all!

Hmmm...

The BT shoots 60/40 or so where I usually hold it. And I had the hardest time with trap-style rising birds on the 5-stand course with a field stock, until I consciously adjusted to a vertical lead. Then I did fine. Moreover, my frustration doesn't come from shooting under or over the bird with different guns; I adjust to that and put it out of my mind. What frustrates me is when I just plain miss the thing and I can't put a finger on why.

Maybe it's me, or me and trap.

On July 4th, we had a fun shoot for charity, and I was doing very well at chip shoots, buddy shoots, annie oakleys, etc. My buddy and I won the buddy shoot in a shoot-off at 30+ yards. The chip shoot came down to me vs. a guy whos one of the best in the county, with decades more experience. I lost, but only after I'd knocked out a lot of guys who shoot regular trap a LOT better than I do. That was with the BT.

Put the machine on wobble, and my score goes UP while others complain. My first 25 straight was on wobble.

But put me out there shooting regular trap, and I'm stuck in the low 20s. A friend said last Sunday that it seemed I lost focus now and again.

Maybe it's not the BT at all; maybe the trap gun doesn't help me much and I should sell it just to get my money back out of it, but it may not be the problem, either. On the other hand, a Remington receiver gun balances differently, and I seem to like how it does.

Anyway, it could be me. Maybe trap just makes my mind wander, while chip shooting, 5-stand, etc. keep it focused with less effort. Hell, I got into this because I wanted to hunt with a shotgun; I'm not sure how I got into shooting in trap league. I think it was because I was shooting well at the trap range, with my old 870, and some of the league guys talked me into competing.

None of this is to say I'm a great shooter, but you know how sometimes you can tell that you COULD get good at something if you practice and learn more? I feel that a lot more at the 5-stand range than at the trap range, despite my having many, many, many thousands more birds' worth of experience at trap.

Thoughts?
 
None of this is to say I'm a great shooter, but you know how sometimes you can tell that you COULD get good at something if you practice and learn more? I feel that a lot more at the 5-stand range than at the trap range, despite my having many, many, many thousands more birds' worth of experience at trap.

AB - It sounds like you and I started out similarly. Initially, I shot a bunch of trap... informal league stuff, just for fun. I warmed up to shotguns pretty quickly and was seeing steady improvement.

Then I shot my first 25. Then I shot a couple more. After that, the fun (which afterall was why I was doing it) got sucked out of the game. I knew without a doubt that I was capable of shooting a 25, so that was my expectation. When I came up short (more often than not), I wasn't happy about a 23 or a 24, I was bent that I didn't run 'em. Strangely, I didn't take much pleasure out of running them, since that was my expectation.

Sporting clays is entirely different. Even the best shooters in the world aren't perfect. Misses are part of the game, and the variety of targets keeps me interested and grounded with realistic expectations. Last year, I switched almost entirely to sporting clays and haven't looked back. I'm shooting better than ever and having more fun than ever.

Recently, after a long layoff from trap, I agreed to fill in on a league. After not being on a trap field for nearly 2 years, I ran the first 64 or 65 targets and after quite a few rounds, finished with a 24.0 average. However, as the league went on, my shooting got worse. I was still running straights once in a while, but in between those rounds, I was dropping ever more targets. It wasn't a shooting slump, as when I shot in sporting clay events, my scores were good... but I just don't like shooting trap anymore.

Since I play these games to have fun, I think I'm done with trap for a while.
 
First off, there are too many excellent posts in this thread to quote them all. They need to be etched in granite!

In fact I suggest we sticky this thread for a bit. I appreciate the sharing.

"Shoot one gun and know it" and "Beware the man that shoots one gun" comes to mind.

Personally I was lucky and listened to Mentors. Being poor helps in not being able to buy the newer offerings when they come out. Also at the time(s) not a lot of new offerings were coming out. "Run what you brung" or perhaps "Run what ya got" is better. We just had to find something that fit from trying others guns and then tweak the fit of the gun we got similar to trying to us.

I wanted to be "versatile" and not a "programmed" shooter. So I have pretty much stayed with "Field Guns".

My experiences and observations mirror those above.

Trap: I have shot it, and have done well , meaning I have run 200 straight. Just I personally did not want to participate too much because (1) Skeet was my primary game, and then came 5 stand, Sporting Clays and of course hunting. (2) Trap fields not as handy for me. Understand too I shot a lot of "cow pasture" fields, and these were Skeet fields and/or set up for 5 stand, SC.

Now a few shooting pards were just flat shotgunners. It made no difference the gun or game, if they could see it - they would fell it. "Growing up poor and not wanting to be hungry teaches one to focus and fell food". They were serious about this too.

One would use his 1100 or 870 Trap guns for everything, he duck hunted with these , skeet, 2 stand, quail and dove , even took deer. He just liked these guns. Fixed chokes barrels, just swap barrel for the task.

One used SuperX Model 1 two barrel set, skeet and trap barrels, fixed choke, and he did the same thing. Trap (full choke) was used for trap, that skeet barrel got used for everything!

Citori 3 barrel Skeet set built on 20 ga frame I had a high rib. Drove me nuts at first. I was not used to high rib. In fact I learned to shoot without ribs. I had won this thing, and it was a nice gun. I just had to "become one with it". I stayed with the 28 ga barrels at first.

That was me shooting trap with a 28 ga, skeet gun. :p From low gun no less :D
Hey if my pard could run trap with a Beretta 303 20 ga, I can ...I can...going to have fun no matter.

I was making myself shoot that gun for everything to get used to it. I had run 300 straight in skeet, I had run a straight in 5 stand , taken doves, and quail...
I actually run a 24/25 at trap, and I still think a wittle pc came off #25. "Getting onto the bird fast" was an understatement - this is what I wanted, no time to think, just shoot.

I wanted to "be" a certain shooter. I wanted what some had earned, and that was to be a shooter that no matter the gun, or target, I could fell it.

I'd watch the guys and gals shoot trap with a H&R Topper and run them. Same folks would come shoot skeet with that fixed Full Choke gun, just use chilled shot, and they would run them - some shot ladies skeet [one target at a time] others were running straights at regular skeet. I was paying attention big time on this.

Running joke and Brister alluded to this, Trap shooters fiddle and piddle with gun fit more than skeet shooters. I do remember the equipment race and all the sponsored shooters, and in skeet , the skeet fiddlers and piddlers were giving the trap folks a run for the money as to who could mess with buying different guns, and then messing with gun fit the most.

I learned a trick and later did this mysef as did a few others.

Trap fella and his wife, just good people and they shot because they like people. Had this group they shot with all the time and they spent time with new folks.

He had a 870 with a plain barrel that was fixed Mod. He removed from the barrel the marking "Modified Barrel".

He would shoot this gun, be smoking trap targets. Folks would want to shoot "that gun". He loaned them the gun and folks would smoke targets. Naturally folks are going to look at the gun barrel and see what it is, only this gun had no barrel marking. :)

Folks would ask also how it shot - POA/POI.

Folks would "say" "Full and 80/20 - he would reply "yep"
Another might "say" Mod and 70/30 - he would reply "yep"
Then again another might "say" IM and 60/40, and he would reply "yep" :D

Point being, all these folks smoking trap birds with the same gun, they had never shot before, and just shooting the durn thing.

Funny one day in the clubhouse, seems some folks were discussing that gun and everyone sharing how well they shot and everyone telling each other what they said the gun was, and the reply " was" yep from the owner.

He and come in, and he was approached - Read: get over here and straighten us out.

He and I would not tell them.

"If I told you boys, ya'll would start missing because you be thinking about the gun and not focusing on them birds and all the other stuff ya gots to do right at the same time you slap the trigger".

He was correct, he had said the same thing my Mentor too many years before had said.

I had external knurled chokes from Nu-Line put in a Field grade SX1. Originally this was a 28" Mod fixed choke, says so on the barrel marking.

Too many times over the years, and this gun has near 300k rds I put thru it, folks have asked what choke I'd be running, and numerous times folks once all said and done, have taken the choke out to look and figure it out.

The first time, I had run the 5 stand course. Then for fun I just wanted the rising teal tossed. I like the rising teal, always hit it. So I went 15/ 15 just piddling.

"What choke you using to run that course and then take them teal?"
I grinned and shrugged and said I had to hit the restroom.
I finish and standing on the porch I see they have removed the choke and looking at the barrel marking.

I was grinning, and when I got in range walking toward them they hollered out .735 !!!

Everyone thought I was running anything from SkI, SKII, IC ....nope. I was using #8 hard shot.

Folks shaking heads, with my choke in hand and could not believe it.

I have done this too folks take out a choke they had, stuck another one in and they had no idea. One old boy shooting trap, I took his full choke out and stuck a Mod in and he shot better that day.

His brain said 'full' and had that "coinfidence" of a "tight choke"...I told him and showed him what I had done. He then realized he was focused on "smoking targets" and that focus is what done it, not the choke, and not so much the gun.
 
I started shooting wobble more than trap because I have a hard time concentrating on trap singles round after round. Too much repetition.

Wobble has more presentations and I can keep focus longer. Mayhap that's part of the problem, Bear.
 
AB - One more thought. You may need to cut some pieces of cardboard from a shell box and make some blinders for your shooting glasses. Really big ones seem to work better.

I've got an old cardboard box from a gun safe out in the garage, which I'm thinking of making into life-size blinders running all the way to the ground and at least a couple feet over the top of my head. That way, I'll be sure to not be distracted by the other people on the squad.

Also, if the target is thrown on a trajectory which you don't like, just call "Slow Pull!" and shake your head in the direction of the trapper.

This seems to work for some of the guys around here who've obviously been shooting trap for a long (*cough* too long) time. :rolleyes: :D
 
Great stuff here! I can relate to repetition. Concentration or lack thereof.
I was on a roll for quite awhile then down the tube I went in a hurry one day.
I couldnt get back to the 20's , let alone run a round. So the next time I went I shot some practice trap and told myself this game isnt that hard. I've aced this before , I can do it again. Well....I not only got back to where I'd been. I was shooting broken birds coming out of the trap house and breaking them also. Actually, I enjoyed breaking the pieces better! Sometimes I think you think too much about breaking birds instead of just doing what comes natural. Sometimes it just pays to lay off for a little while and go back and just shoot! PS I didnt change the chokes , the gun, or anything . Just the mind set. I think this applys to any of clay games you spend a lot of time at.
 
Wow, this just might be my favorite thread on the shotgun forum EVER! So much good advice. I stopped changing my chokes in sporting clays, and my scores have only gone up! In my area skeet and 5-stand/SC shooters tend to be about the same, and are comfortable in either game. Trap shooters are only that. I went and shot trap this winter after not shooting it for almost a year, and forgot my choke tubes. I got a 24 and 23 from the 16yd line with a skeet I choke in. It kind of changed my mind as far as needing a tight choke. Later on I read about constriction in Brister's book and if I remember right he was saying IC works for him with geese. Geese! He says when people hit with tight chokes many time they are hitting with the fringe of the pattern, switch to a more open choke and what used to be the fringe becomes the meaty part of the pattern.


Dang it, I've gone and rambled so much I don't even remember what this topic was about!
 
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