Trends in SOF weapons.

[Evil Monkey]

The SMG had become a niche weapon since the intro of the assault rifle. While it served well for law enforcement, it also gets used by SOFs. SOF's use the SMG because it is easy to silence and therefore, quite effective for stealthy missions. This is where the SMG split into 2 different weapons, the PDW and what I like to call the "sentry" rifle.

We will not discuss the fact that PDW's were built for second line troops, rather they are ALSO being used for special missions that require a weapon that can easily be silenced and can penetrate body armor. The P90 is said to be used by Singapore as a Special Forces weapon. It's silenced and meant to take out any sentries like guards or dogs for example. The Germans have the MP7 and is capable of being silenced, although personally, I do not know whether the KSK uses it or not for any Special missions. The Chinese have also produced a silenced bullpup SMG/PDW and a pistol that uses a 5.8x21mm new Chinese pistol cartridge in the same class as the 5.7fn and 4.6hk. The Russians also have a shrunken 5.45mm cartridge, however, only a pistol is chambered for it. It seems like the Russians went a different route when creating a weapon that can be silenced and also be able to penetrate body armor at acceptable ranges. This weapon maybe called an assault rifle, or maybe even an SMG. More correctly, it's a sniper/marksman rifle, but due to it's unusual characteristics and purpose, I call it the "Sentry Rifle" to separate it from the common marksman rifles.


Examples of these types of rifles are the Russian VSS Vintorez and VSK-94 sentry rifles. Both shoot a very unusual 9x39mm round, which is designed to be easily silenced by having a slower velocity and lethality made up by having more mass. The weapons themselves have very short barrels with long silencers. The Vintorez has an integral silencer. Finally, both are to be used with sniping scopes, usually a PSO of sorts. I'm not sure what the entire purpose of these weapons are, but they seem to be concept wise, highly advanced versions of the silenced SMG/PDW. They have to be able to penetrate body armor at a realistic range of about 200 meters. They appear to be used to eliminate sentries to a building or compound to prepare for a dynamic entry by SOF's. The difference is that there is lesser man power involved because of a couple of soldiers and their highly specialized Sentry Rifles, while everybody else most likely has compact assault rifles or standard SMG/PDWs.

In the West, specifically talking about the US, I have never seen such concepts in warfare. I have never seen SEALs or other SOF's use such weapons like P90 or a "sentry" rifle. Although the civilian market does have cartridges like the .300 Whisper to serve in that role.

I do have questions that haven't been answered through research.

1) If the goal is a general purpose silenced firearm, wouldn't the assault rifle be a good candidate? Wouldn't some thing like a silenced 7.62 Krinkov surely be more versatile than a silenced MP7 or P90?

2) If the goal is to have a marksman-type silenced firearm that can penetrate armor at a range of at most 300 meters, wouldn't a silenced carbine or bullpup assault rifle in 5.45mm, 5.56mm, or even 7.62 soviet also be a better choice than a round like the 9x39mm?

Versatility is key, in my opinion. I don't think it's appropriate for ultra-specialized weapons to be used by organic teams whether they be SOF or SWAT. At the same time, you don't want weapons that are the "Jack of all Trades, Master of None", but you want to have a good balance of weapon attributes and have a specific firearm slightly specialized towards a certain role. Therefore, creating the "Jack of all Trades, Master of Some."

I'm very interested in what the US uses as equivalents, if anybody knows.

And what are your thoughts on these weapons?

(Deja vu? Yes, I like to post on multi forums )

 

[Zak Smith]

In the current conflict, most of our enemies are not wearing body armor.

In the last 8 years, we've seen:

* M4 being issued to many more soldiers than before, replacing the 20" M16

* trend towards shorter assault rifles (10-12"), e.g. the Mk18

* extensive use of 1x and 4x optical sights on assault rifles, the latter especially to act as a widely-available force-mutliplier, also for positive target ID in ambiguous environments

* extensive use of the SPR (Mk12), which is a suppressed 18" M16 normally shooting 77-grain Mk262

* suppressed .308 sniper weapons systems shooting full-power ammunition with shorter barrels than 24": e.g. the XM-3 and SASS

* SOF use of 7.62x39 (e.g. the SPR-V solicication leading to the SR-47)

* SOF development and use of larger assault rifle cartridges which still fit into the M4 platform, the Enhanced Rifle Cartridge (ERC) project, which lead to the 6.8 SPC. Note that armor piercing ability was not in the "needs" for this project-- but that it was evaluated on how well it did after going through an AK chest rig.

* suppressors becoming more and more used on the standard M4 platform (shooting full-power ammunition)

* more troops wanting a 45 ACP handgun (kind of going against the whole armor piercing thing)

 

[HorseSoldier]

Suppressor use with subsonic ammunition seems to be a rather highly specialized capability that not all SOF missions call for (and by extension, not all SOF units have a requirement for it), while, as Zak Smith noted, use of suppressed 5.56mm rifles/carbines firing high velocity ammunition is very widespread.

 

[Lucky]

Insurgents don't wear body armour because they need to be indistinguishable from civilians, once they throw the rifle in the gutter and start walking. But make no mistakes the Iraqi Army had armour.

Basing weapons on the Iraq insurgency is stupid for 2 obvious reasons: #1 the Democrats made it clear that the US is retreating from that ASAP. #2 militaries are supposed to be able to match the greatest threat, and then every lesser threat by default (to a degree).

The USA, in the past, was supposed to be able to fight a major war in one continent while simultaneously maintaining involvement in a smaller conflict in another continent. A sound idea. Whether or not it is practicable today I've never heard it being renounced, and thus all gear should fit with that framework, being applicable to fighting an equal or better equipped opponent.

One might just as soon cancel F-22 because there's no need for a supercruise stealth plane fighting insurgents.

 

[Tony Williams]

There is a considerable difference between fitting a suppressor to a rifle firing high-velocity ammunition, and using one for subsonic rounds. In the former case, the muzzle report will still be audible as will the "crack" of a supersonic bullet going past, so the enemy will be in no doubt that they are being fired on. However, with a muffled report and no muzzle flash it will be very hard for them to locate the source of the firing.

With subsonic ammunition much less gun gas is generated so the muzzle report is quieter and there is no supersonic "crack", so the enemy may not even realise that they are coming under fire until they start getting hit.

I have posted an article on my website on subsonic rifle ammunition. This is a pic from it:

The 7.62x37 is for a specially-designed suppressed HK rifle, the SL9 SD.