Trigger & Accuracy of the Ruger M77 and M77 Mark II

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nico

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I got a M77 Mark II in .270win for christmas and since then have been looking for info on the gun. I've found a bunch of comments (some on this site) about how inaccurate the M77 is and how bad the trigger is. I've also seen quite a few people say that this reputation was due to the multiple barrel sources used for the original M77. They said that the Mark II barrel is hammer forged by Ruger and that it should have out-of-the box accuracy comparable to the M70 and Remington 700. This is my first rifle (I've fired about 10 rounds with a 30-30 at 100 yards) and I know that however it shoots, it will outshoot me for a while, but I was wondering if someone can attest to the Mark II's accuracy or lack thereof.

Also, I've seen a few aftermarket triggers online for as little as $60 (I think they're made by Timney). Since this will only be the second rifle I've fired, I know I probably don't have a feel for what a "good" and "bad" trigger feels like. How does a trigger affect accuracy? Would a 2.5-3lb trigger be worth the money or is it something I woudln't notice while hunting and shooting recreationally?

My gun will primarily be used for deer hunting so it isn't a huge deal if it shoots 2" groups at 100 yards instead of 1" groups or if the trigger is 6lbs or 3lbs, but curiosity is getting to me and I'd like to have a feel for when the day comes that the gun is limiting my shooting and not my skill.
Thanks for reading and any answers you can give:)
 
i have a m77(the mark 2 i believe) an if its any consolation..its got a tasco 6-24x scope,harris long bipod.its the 1 gun in my entire collection(ok..my small collection lol)that i find is unchallenging at times because of its accuracy.i dial it in to focus and get the range-have taken many many groundhogs with it from 50 yards out to 350 yards..yes,mines very accurate..i can slide a dollar bill from the front of the wood forearm back to the receiver-between the barrel and wood.the barrel sets in there nice and smooth.i dont know about being hammer forged..it works for me.the only thing i dislike about it is the floorplate.i believe its alloy and yes..i have scratched it.mines chambered in 223 remington.it loves the vmax ballistic tipped stuff.i got mine after a friend,whom has an 22-250 in an older m77,let me shoot his.same scope set up.i lost 20 dollars on a long range bet..i gained a good varmit rifle on his recommendation.
 
the older rugers had spotty accuracy at times, but they could be made to shoot quite nicely if you had the time. in fact, i really like the old tang safety guns. don't worry about the accuracy of your new ruger. it will be fine. each gun is an individual, so even if it does shoot poorly (unlikely), that says nothing about the next ruger on the line. rugers are sensitive to how tight the action screw is (front). if accuracy is sub-par, letting some pressure off that screw would be my first step...

ruger triggers are pretty bad, but so is every other american manufacturer. the reason that ruger gets such flak over the trigger is they are difficult to adjust yourself (where a remington is extremely easy)... so, the gun usually winds up at a 'smith and will cost $30 to get back. but, a good trigger is worth it.

do not replace your trigger now. there's no need for it. once you get 100-150 rounds thru the gun, then you may want to look into replacing/repairing the trigger. but for now, just leave the trigger as is. get used to it, get good with it. then take it to a 'smith.

a trigger will not make a rifle any more or less accurate. a trigger might, however, have a huge impact on a shooter - making the shooter more or less accurate. you will also find as you get more into guns, and your collection grows, that you will begin to notice triggers... and you will eventually lose all patience for poor triggers.

good luck, and don't worry about your gun. it is a fine weapon and will treat you to many deer.
 
I have the same gun....

M77 Mark II chambered in .270...

I love mine. It was my first deer rifle. I have a Nikon scope on mine and it is VERY accurate. You'll need to find some ammo you like (I use ballistic silvertips) and stick with it. Mine easily shoots 1 inch groups from 100 yards. I have made NO modifications to mine except to clean it and take it out each deer season to re-sight the scope.

Enjoy!
 
nico,

That's a good, basic question, and the previous responders have led you right.

Yes, the M77 (MkI, but not so marked) had multiple barrel sources, and some were very bad.

There are other sources of rifle inaccuracy, however. As mentioned, the shooter is primary, and I find I can shoot more accurately and enjoy shooting more with a lighter trigger than normally comes out of the factory box in these litigation conscious days. Because of the same lawsuit-induced fears that led the manufacturers to deliver heavy trigger pulls, you'll find very little data on how to adjust your own trigger; people normally just suggest a trip to a gunsmith. Trigger adjustment isn't really the first gunsmith chore a new rifle owner should want to tackle anyway - try simpler things first.

I wouldn't worry much about the manufacturing techniques used in barrel making. The term "hammer forged" sounds good, but it's simply a high output method of making barrels using very expensive equipment. Like any other part, its quality is dependent upon how the tooling that made it is used and maintained. I believe hammer-forging makes very credible barrels, easily capable of one inch at 100 yards accuracy, if the tooling has been maintained well. Extreme accuracy guys prefer the other barrel making processes, however, such as "button rifling" and the much more expensive "cut rifling."

Bedding the action and barrel is simple enough, but a bit scary the first time. It generally produces fine results in accuracy, however, and is a good place to start. Fortunately, the basic design of the Ruger (Mk I or Mk II) is such that it doesn't require bedding of the action. The front action screw is angled, rather than prependicular to the action and barrel, and when tightened, pulls the action back into contact with the stock. This is a patented approach, which is probably why the other makers don't use it.

With the Ruger's action not needing bedding, the fore end of the stock can either be "tip bedded" or "free floated" to improve consistency. You don't need to pour epoxy in the whole barrel channel to gain improvements; a very little bit strategically placed will help.

If you have access to the November 03 "Rifle" magazine, author John Barsness has a basic "how-to" article that's even simpler than the instructions that come with a Brownellls' bedding kit.

Some of this can be fun, and I wish I had done some of it before I grew attached to my rifles. Now I hesitiate, because I'm afraid of screwing it up. I did it anyway, but it does raise the stress level.

Jaywalker

Edited to add a description of trigger pull feel: A good trigger pull should feel like "a glass rod breaking," and should be of a weight appropriate to its use. - for hunting, three to four pounds is fine; for formal target shooting, less than a pound of pull weight. The "breaking glass" feel is meant to descibe a very, very abrupt trigger action, not the draggy feel that comes from trigger pressure increasing, decreasing, increasing, etc, followed by a "bang." It's hard to describe with words, but a good trigger is a very nice feel, with no play in the take-up. (About here, someone will generally mention "two-stage" triggers, but they don't apply to your Ruger M77 MkII.)
 
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My pop has an old tang-safety one in 6mm that is scary accurate with handloads. Talking dime-size groups. It (did) have a horrible trigger like most all rugers.
 
Nico
I friend of mine has a .223 M77. It would shoot dime groups at 100 yards. It was pretty impressive. Sounds like you have a great rifle. Maybe get into handloading and get the trigger done and you'll have a very accurate gun.
Good luck
Luke
 
M77 Mark II

I purchased my M77 Mark II heavy barreled varmint rifle in 22-250 back in 1994 and have fired thousands of rounds thru it. Many, many prairie dogs here in Montana have bit the dust as a result. I like the trigger and extreme accuracy of this rifle. After having pushed Nosler 40 grain ballistic tips (thousands) down the barrel at 4,300 fps I found that I had damaged the throat of the barrel. I sent it back to Ruger and they installed and finished a new barrel at no cost. The new barrel shoots as well as the old when it was new and undamaged. Just today I went out to our new range here in Lewistown, Mt and printed 2", 5 shoot groups at 200 yards. The Trigger, well it is very crisp and clean but I'm wanting to reduce it from the 4 1/2 lbs. to a 2 lb pull without having to sacrifice it's crispness and clean function. Does anyone know it this trigger IS adjustable? By the way, I've backed off the speed to 3,800 fps with AA 2230 powder this rifle truly is the perverbial "tack driver". Overall I would'nt be reluctant to say that the Ruger products have met if not exceeded all my expectations.
 
I believe the heavy barrel varmint guns are the exception though. The varmint versions are VERY accurate IME. Now the sporter weight barrels are a different story from what I've seen. I have a 270 MkII and I've done everything to it. It's been bedded and floated, gunsmith trigger job down to 3 lbs., and it got years of trying new bullets and handloads. It's still a 1 1/4" gun on average even with the loads it likes. I've come to terms with the fact that's as good as this one will do. 1 1/4" is fine for hunting but it's not good enough for bragging on threads like these. And bragging on threads like these is how gun mfgs. sell rifles.

We forget sometimes that just because other guns may shoot 1/2"less @ 100 yds. that doesn't mean the one we have doesn't work. Simply put I believe the Ruger 77's with sporter barrels will be slightly less accurate than most other guns on average. I've seen dozens of them shot along with everything else as a range officer too.
 
The Ruger 77 MKII in .308Win that I purchased several years ago had poor accuracy. My gunsmith said that the bore diameter at the muzzle was .3095"! After getting it bedded, rebarrelled and replacing the trigger, I was happy with the accuracy. I understand that the current production units have much better barrels today.
 
Try a Timney Trigger, they are amazing!!

I put them in all my M-77 MKII's; I have several. It is the single best thing to do to improve accuracy in the rifle. Mine all shoot great and I it is a great gun.

Give it a try.

Matt
 
I just picked up a Model 77 Mk I in 7x57. I normally stick to Remington, but I love the 7x57 cartridge, and I got the rifle for 325.00, medium rings included. It's going to be two weeks before I can get to the range, and I was checking old threads, and found this one.

Is there any way (besides shooting) to tell if I got a decent barrel or not? Also, a friend told me the Mk I factory triggers are adjustable - Anyone know about this? I tune Remington triggers all the time, but I've never fooled with the Rugers.

I don't feel skinned - the rifle would go 99%. She was somebody's safe queen :)

Any info would be appreciated.

KR
 
Kentucky, you stole that Ruger for $325.00.
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I would feel guilty, but a friend of mine runs a little gun store, and picked this up as part of an estate. His store is a little off the beaten path, and when he buys lots like this, he sells the guns that would collect dust on the shelf CHEAPLY to keep his inventory moving.

Mostly he sells a few high-power rifles (.30-06 here in deer country) and tons of 30/30 levers. He said the 7 Mauser would sit on his shelf too long.

I bought a minty Browning A-bolt Medallion in .375 H&H from him two years ago for 525.00 after haggling. He had had it for 3 months - (too big for the natives, although lots of them looked at it:eek:).

KR
 
Well you've got the right approach concerning accuracy, "what you need" instead of "less than MOA all day long if I do my part" bs. As far as Ruger triggers go, if you are happy with it now spend your money on ammo. It will "slick up" to a point just by using it. 'Good' triggers depend on the application and the user. You really don't want a high end target trigger on a hunting rifle. Good is what works for you and builds your shooting confidence. First on my list is consistency. If it doesn't break the same every time it gets fixed immediately. The original MKII triggers and the newer LC6 triggers can be made into very nice hunting triggers for a lot less money than an aftermarket trigger. That $60 aftermarket trigger still has to be installed. If you are good enough to install it and make sure it is safe you are probably good enough to clean up the stock trigger. I'm not knocking the Timney or any other for that matter, whatever makes you a better shot is probably worth it. Other characteristics of a 'good' trigger are, little or no creep-how much do you have to take up before it breaks (although 2 stage triggers can be very good if you are accustomed to them), how much force it takes to break-3 to 4 lbs is generally considered good by most for a hunting trigger, overtravel-how far does the trigger go past the point of breaking which isn't a big concern to me and last but not least is smoothness. A very clean trigger at 6 or even 8 lbs is probably better than a gritty one at 3 lbs. You can tell if you have the newer LC6 if the back of the trigger is hollow. If it is solid it is the older style. The later production MKIIs had the LC6 trigger. Out of the box the newer LC6s are more consistent and generally less gritty but there is nothing wrong w/ the older style that can't be fixed and even the LC6 can be improved w/ a little work if you feel it needs it.
As far as barrels go, there isn't anyway to tell if it will shoot accurately enough any other way than shooting it. Some barrels shoot most any load well and they are gems. Some are very particular about bullet type, weight, velocity etc. In my experience the biggest issue you will have with a new production barrel is copper fouling. A lot of new barrels are roughly finished and accuracy can fall off dramatically after a few rounds. You can hand lap them with an abrasive, fire lap w/ abrasive bullets or just keep shooting and cleaning it. There are many opinions on this barrel break-in thing and some are quite adamant that their method is best. I let the barrel tell me what it needs instead of following a set routine. Lapping is a last resort for me because it just amounts to wear and has to be done right or you can do more damage than you will ever do by shooting. Cleaning is another touchy subject and every one has their own ideas about what is best and what products are best to use. Improper cleaning has probably ruined more barrels than any other single thing. I have some barrels that copper foul enough that after five shots groups start to open up. I have others that have had nothing more than a bore snake pulled through after a shooting session and are finely accurate after hundreds and hundreds of rounds. I don't clean bores 'just because'. If they are shooting well enough I leave them alone regardless of how much copper streaking I can see. Shoot with a purpose and shoot a lot. Use common sense and remember the weak link is generally the nut behind the trigger when accuracy falls off.You've got a fine hunting rifle there, in make and caliber and with a little care it will outlast you. Have fun!
 
Longears9- If your Ruger is a 'Target' model it will have an adjustable trigger. Check your manual or call Ruger-have the serial number handy.
 
Just to clarify things because I am Ruger guy - There never was and never will be a MKI, just M77. They are push feed w/ a two position tang safety. The M77 MKII followed and is controlled feed w/ a three position 'wing' safety on the bolt. The M77 Hawkeyes are the latest incarnation and are mechanically identical to the MKII, other than the LC6 trigger which did come on the later MKIIs. In fact I believe Ruger will replace an older MKII trigger w/ the new LC6 for a small fee. Whatever the rollmark says is what it is.
Almost forgot - the Hawkeyes also have steel bottom metal which the others did not have.
 
For 15+ yrs I used a sporterized '03 for deer hunting and playing. Having shot a bit of comp. when the patterns got too big I replaced it with a 77 in '06 -stainless w/composite furniture. It is the most accurate non target barreled rifle I have ever fired. My wife helped sight it in first at 100 yds and then I clicked the elevation to 220 yds. I fired one time at a flattened drink can wrapped in foil and hit exactly dead center. I unloaded and put it in the case. Still have the can sitting in the rifle cabinet so I can rub my sharp shooting kids nose a bit about how their old paw can shoot. It is a fine shooting rifle and I have absolutely no complaints about it. Longest shot was a running deer at 280 yds. It makes you feel good to know that it is going to hit where it is aimed.
 
The $325 was probably a fair price 6 years ago when this thread was started.
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Then I feel pretty good about paying it today.

There never was and never will be a MKI, just M77.
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Thanks for the clarification. I have the M77 then, as it has the tang safety. I'm a hard-core Remington guy, and the Ruger bolts are relatively new to me. A lot of my buddies shoot them, and they seem pretty satisfied.

Sold all my Rugers and will never own one again.
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AKA, what was the problem?

As far as barrels go, there isn't anyway to tell if it will shoot accurately enough any other way than shooting it.
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Well, we'll see how it works in 2 weeks. I'll have either a Leupold or old Weaver stuck on it by then.

KR
 
Never even looked at the original post date. He's probably got it figured out by now. I blame Kentucky_Rifleman for resurrecting this :).
 
Installing a Timney trigger in a Ruger Mk II is very quick and easy.In fact, it's almost idiot proof. It must be because I did it. I had to have a few thousands milled off the safety to make it work. Well worth the money. If you've been shooting factory triggers and shoot a rifle with a Timney, you'll know exactly what a good trigger is.
 
I just finished giving the new M77 a thorough cleaning. It does indeed have a factory adjustable trigger. It took me about an hour of tuning and fidgeting, but I've got her dialed in now. The trigger is crisp and breaks at 3 pounds on the money on my scale. I lightened it down to 2 pounds+/-, but I never could get the over-travel and creep tweaked to where the trigger broke cleanly, so I had to dial it back out to 3 pounds.

Thanks to all for the advice. It looks like I'll get to go to the range in one week, not two. I'll still have a scope on the gun by then. I've been ruthlessly eying the Weaver M9V Medalist residing on my 95 Mauser. :evil:

KR
 
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