Trijicon Acog vs. AIMPoint , Bushnell HOlosight, etc

[4Freedom]

I would like to know why a person would fork out $1000 or so for a Trijicon ACOG vs the less expensive Trijicon, AIMPoint and Bushnell Holosights. What advantage does the Trijicon Acogs have? Do Trijicon ACogs also have a laser sight ? I don't quite understand what the Donut reticle is? Is a Donut Reticle different than the holographic site?

Is the Trijicon ACOG, essentially a fixed length close range scope with battery-free illumination? I really not sure what would be best for me. I want one good close range optic and one good long range optic. Would a close range scope or holosight for lower price be better option than Trijicon? I have heard Trijicon are essentially indestructible.

What I want is a scope that can be optimized for CQB as well as can quickly acquire a target up to 300-400 yards or so (mid range).

Someone told me that Trijicons have problems in low light conditions when aiming at targets in brighter light conditions, such as shooting an outside target from a dark room. Does anyone counter these claims?

Please can someone tell me the advantages of owning Trijicon ACOG versus the other holosights? Will, I have better abiltiy to hit close and mid rangea targets with this scope? What I want is just the all around best optic for close to mid range combat that I can aquire for under $800, if possible. I have also considered CQ/T, but from reading various reviews it seems many poeple prefer Trijicons over them and that CQ/T have a lot of problems, also slower target acquisitions and heavy weight.

 

[Darthbauer]

Acog's are magnified while most Aimpoints and EOTech's are not and you need to buy a magnifier separate. After you purchase both then it ends up costing around the price of an Acog.

 

[green country shooter]

ACogs also have some truly amazing glass. You think it's more like 6 power, it's so clear.

 

[12131]

Apples v oranges

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

well, the ACOG is magnified... and until you try one out, you can't really say how good or bad they are. I know that the ACOG is THE BEST magnified combat sight I have ever tried. Well worth the money if you are putting your life on the line in combat.

I used to think that the ACOG was overpriced... but that was before I tried one.

 

[4Freedom]

What do people think about the Trijicon Acog with Docter sight? Is the Doctor optic not worth it? I thought it may be nice to have best of both worlds, but I spoke to some shooters who tell me they dont find it useful. I wonder if it is worth the extra money.

If I needed to hit a target at 20 yards, with an Acog be sufficient or is it only for farther out distances? I am told the Acog has bullet drop compensator that may be very useful for a new shooter like me. HE said he could hit targets with his Bushmaster AR15 at 600 yards with his Acog because of the bullet drop compensator.

 

[12131]

If I needed to hit a target at 20 years, with an Acog be sufficient or is it only for farther out distances?...

When you find THAT ACOG, I will pay whatever price they ask.

 

[4Freedom]

Typo

 

[HorseSoldier]

What do people think about the Trijicon Acog with Docter sight? Is the Doctor optic not worth it?

I think it adds something to the equation if you're shooting a TA01, but on the models with the fiber optic illumination, I find I can shoot two eyes open and almost as fast as I can using a true red dot like the EOTech or AimPoint.

 

[lipadj46]

Trijicon is not really known for their glass more for their reticle illumination system. Don't get me wrong the glass is not bad it is decent. I think the ACOGs are good for what they are designed to do. There are other good alternatives to an ACOG though if you want to stay magnified and have a little better glass none of them have that illumination system though.

LEU52155 Leupold 1-3x14 Mark 4 CQ/T Riflescope
Matte
Illuminated Circle Dot
Comes with flip ups, battery, AR-15 Carry Handle Mount and Flat top mount.
Index Matched Lens System
SWFA: $879.95

LEU54902 Leupold 1.5-5x20 VX-III 30mm Riflescope
Matte
Illuminated Duplex
30mm
Index Matched Lens System
SWFA: $521.96

201903 Burris 1-4x24 Xtreme Tactical XTR 30mm Rifle Scope
Matte
Illuminated Ballistic 5.56
30mm
FastFire Red Dot Sight
SWFA: $736.95

421424M Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope
Matte
4A w/ Illuminated Dot
30mm
Rainguard
SWFA: $389.95

114262 IOR 1.1-4x26 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
Matte
Illuminated CQB
30mm
SWFA: $944.95

For non magnified try these:

TX30 Trijicon Tri-Power Reflex Sight (same illumination as ACOG but with batteries also)
Matte
Red Chevron
30mm
Free Trijicon Scope Cover w/ Purchase
Free Trijicon Lens Pen w/ Purchase
Free Trijicon 30mm Weaver Ring w/ Purchase
Free 4 Batteries w/ Purchase
SWFA: $569.95

Any Aimpoint that floats your boat or Eotech/Bushnell Holosight

 

[xx7grant7x]

this is the Acog ECOS you're talking about (pics for anyone who hasen't seen it), and if I could afford one It would be my first choice as an ar-15 optic because as you said it is the best of both worlds. as an alternative they do make 45 degree mounts for red dot sights so that you tilt the gun to the side for close range red-dot sighting and can mount a regular magnified scope/acog which gives you more choices in optics. with the red dot you'd need to ensure it's parallax free and has enough eye relief as it's usually mounted further down the gun.

 

[4Freedom]

Trijicon is not really known for their glass more for their reticle illumination system. Don't get me wrong the glass is not bad it is decent. I think the ACOGs are good for what they are designed to do. There are other good alternatives to an ACOG though if you want to stay magnified and have a little better glass none of them have that illumination system though.

Ok, I was thinking of CQ/T. However, do any of these scopes have bullet drop compensator? I was told that with a Trijicon you can easily hit targets at variable lengths without having to adjust . I was really interseted in the TA31RCO. It has both windage and bullet drop compensators and I see it for around $1050-$1150. With the price of a CQ/T, wouldn't it make sense to pay a little more for Trijicon? Also, CQ/T has only 2 year warranty on electronics. Many have told me the CQ/Ts are bulky and difficult in quick target acquisition.

I know $1100 is lot of money to fork out on a scope, I am not sure. I would like an optic that could be used at close range to mid range, but I thought a holographic sight would be preferable to a scope.

Again, is the bullet drop compensator a feature that is important for quick acquistion and variable distance targets? Usually you can have targets that are both close and far and to have to sit down to adjust ur scope I think may be time consuming and not useful. Isn't that why many choose holographic reflex sites? However, I am told reflex sights don't go out much more than 100 yards.


Here is the scope I am thinking about. I have found a good deal for around $1050-$1100 on it. I am going to buy some cheaper scopes/holo sights for my other guns, but would like a real good and accurate sight/scope that can hit close-mid range objects moving at variable speeds. OF course I would love to save money.

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=637&back_row=4&categoryID=3

 

[pete7469]

One you pic up an ACOG you'll swear by it. I don't really care for any od the HALO sights.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

A friend of mine has the TA01-NSN ACOG (mounted on a Colt no less). It's calibrated for M855 fired out of a carbine, and has crude iron sights on top.

After using it, I wouldn't want anything else mounted to my AR. It's a fantastic scope, and for anything other than CQC, I don't think you can get better.

The only reason I don't have one of my own is of course the price tag. It would cost more than my AR-15 itslef.

I wouldn't bother with one of the versions with the Dokter red dot. You don't really need it.

 

[taliv]

Trijicon is not really known for their glass more for their reticle illumination system.

i'm not going to debate the reputation of trijicon or what they're known for... but the acog has better glass than anything else on that list, including the leupolds. also, none of the scopes on that list are even in the same league as the acog in terms or durability.

to the OP:

skip the doctor sight.
consider that it exists because enough people think the 4x acog is weak in that area to justify sales. (the acog isn't magic. it isn't the best at everything.) but the MRD mounted on top of the acog causes as many problems as it solves.


the acog isn't nearly as fast as an aimpoint close in. (at least according to my stage times) but it's way, way better from 50-600 yrds.


the acog is one of the best general purpose sights, but if you need the best at short and long range, everything becomes a compromise: you can fork out the bucks for a short dot (which isn't perfect either), fork out the bucks for multiple sights, or just compromise with something on that list.

I've been running aimpoints and acogs for several years now (mostly the TA31RCO and micro T1) and i'm a big fan of both, but i'm currently saving* my bucks for a 1-4x nightforce nxs, which is also a compromise, but one that i hope will meet most of my needs. (by "saving" i mean delaying optics purchases while i spend all available funds on what will soon be called "pre-ban" black rifles)

the meopta k-dot is also worth looking at

 

[4Freedom]

I've been running aimpoints and acogs for several years now (mostly the TA31RCO and micro T1) and i'm a big fan of both, but i'm currently saving* my bucks for a 1-4x nightforce nxs, which is also a compromise, but one that i hope will meet most of my needs. (by "saving" i mean delaying optics purchases while i spend all available funds on what will soon be called "pre-ban" black rifles)

HI, why are you choosing a nightforce instead of an ACOG? What advantage does an a nightforce nxs have over an ACOG? I am just looking for your all around best close - mid range SHTF scope that can be the best in its price range. I see a TA31RCO -M150P for $1050, I was thinking of jumping on it. Does it sound like a good deal? Would I be best getting nightforce nxs instead? Wondering the advantages/disadvantages. Which can acquire multiple target at variable distances, say you have to BG's coming at you one at 50 yards and other at 200 yards, which scope would u choose for the job?

 

[taliv]

i don't know. i'll tell you after i run a nightforce for a few months.

in theory though, it is variable, so you can go to 1x power when you need, and crank it up to 4x when you need. that acog is always 4x and many times you will wish you had less power and more eye relief. zak smith has some well-written posts on this topic. i recommend you search the archives. i think he prefers the 3x original versions.

 

[4Freedom]

Ok, I found a good deal on an ACOG and was thinking of jumpin on it, but now maybe I will hold off. I was reading some things about Nightforce NXS. They are dang expensive scopes, more than Leupolds. WEll, I thought the 4x would be better since they are more accurate at longer distance than the 3x, but I am not sure. Yes, I think at close range I have some concerns about Trijicon, although Trijicon on its website claims the scopes are good for quick acquisition of close and longer range targets, perhaps because of bullet drop compensator. I also like the horizontal crossharis on the TA310RCO, I thought that would come in handy when there is heavy winds.

I do like how Nightforce NXS has the variable magnification which I think would come in handy. How is Nightforce NXS more efficient than the Leupold Mark 4 in this regard? I see it is almost twice the money. I am wondering if a Nightforce NXS will have the quick target acquisition features at variable distances like Trijicon. I was told that most scopes take more effort and time zero in at targets of variable distance. In CQB situation I don't think you may have that option. Like I said I want a scope for my AR15 that can work quickly in changing targets that are close to mid range.

 

[taliv]

dude, read zak's articles in the sticky section of this forum and then ask again if you still have questions

 

[HorseSoldier]

Ok, I was thinking of CQ/T. However, do any of these scopes have bullet drop compensator? I was told that with a Trijicon you can easily hit targets at variable lengths without having to adjust . I was really interseted in the TA31RCO. It has both windage and bullet drop compensators and I see it for around $1050-$1150.

The ACOG makes range work out to 600 meters pretty boring with good ammo.

Note that the RCO's horizontal hash marks aren't for windage or lead on moving targets, though. They're for referencing targets to other guys also shooting ACOGs. The tic marks are way too far apart for windage calls. If you know your math you can do fairly quick and dirty wind calls based on the fact that your BDC tic marks are 19" wide at the appropriate range downrange, though.

 

[lipadj46]

but the acog has better glass than anything else on that list

Maybe the Burris is on par with Trijicon glass but the rest of those scopes IMO have better glass than the Trijicons unless they recently changed their lens supplier. It's good glass and probably better than it needs to be for it's intended purpose but most people who are into optics would agree that it is not up to Bushnel 4200, Leupold VX-III (mk4) and especially IOR levels. It does not need to be though. I am not dogging trijicon as I am actually looking to buy a tripower for my Saiga 12 I am just trying to put in perspective some other options around the same price.

One thing with the ACOGs you should realize is that they have very small eye relief (under 2.5" some under 2") so keep that in mind. That is fine for a low recoil weapon like an AR15 but anything bigger can get tricky. I know for example SEI had to make a special M14 mount for ACOGs that set them back a little farther but still that is close for a .308

 

[4Freedom]

Hi, I read Zak's articles. I have read this article in the past and the optics part has been very challenging for me. I am sad to say that I think I will actually need to try out some real optics with a knowledgable person to guide me before I can reallly grasp the concept of everything Zak has written in his article. Pardon my newbieness. However, I did grasp some of the concepts in his writings and now I have some questions. I don't think I can write all the questions in 1 post, since I am too tired and my brain is not functioning.

However, here's a quick one that caught my eye:

Historically, fixed power scopes enjoyed a real advantage in durability compared to variable power scopes. This is not true any longer; every new daytime sniper system scope adopted by the U.S. is a variable power, the most recent being the S&B 3-12 PMII adopted by the USMC. Variable power scopes have real advantages over fixed power for: field of view (for observation, or tracking of movers), target location, close targets, and low light. There is no reason to get a fixed power scope nowadays, if you can afford a Leupold, USO, or S&B.

So, since Zak says that there is no real reason for fixed power scopes, does this mean all Trijicon Acogs are out the window? Why do people use these Trijicon Acogs? Does the Bullet Drop Compensator make up for their lack of variable magnification?

Two of the scopes Zak suggested are well beyond my price range and the third being a Leupold Mark 4 can be an option. However, I do hear lot of people who seem to prefer Nightforces. I wonder what the advantage/disadvantage of each are. I don't see him make any mention about Trijicons, AIMPoints, etc.

Would more people suggest using a tactical close range scope versus a holo sight for quick target acquistion of moving objects at variable speeds and distances?

My current search is for a close-mid range scope, but also will like to find longer range scope. What scopes under $1000 could fit the criteria Zak has for a close-mid range scope and long range scope?

 

[45B@cav]

Ok I have 1 TA01NSN ACOG, 1 EOtech, 1 Aimpoint and a Trijicon ACOG Reflex sight. I like them all for what they bring to the table. You said you want accurate hits out to 400m then the ACOG is your optic. They are all good products it comes down to what you will use them for.

 

[4Freedom]

Please, by reading Zak's in depth articles there is a lot of unknowns. I had hard time deciphering from all the techincal stuff and really I need advice of more experiences shooters who can point out the advantages of optics for the situation I described.

I also will be purchasing a long range optic for my LR-308. I think Zak's article will be more beneficial in my deciscion for that optic. However, for my close-mid range optic, I am still not sure what to do. I like an article that compares holo sights to scopes , Trijicons to AIMPoints, Nightforces to Trijicons to Leupolds , etc.

Ok, I want an optic/sight that can quickly switch from close to mid range combat of multiple moving targets; lets say they can range from 20 yards to 500 yards. I will have to invest in a good bayonet for anything closer . So which optic would you pick?

 

[lipadj46]

If you want one variable scope for both close and medium range why not one of these:

LEU54902 Leupold 1.5-5x20 VX-III 30mm Riflescope
Matte
Illuminated Duplex
30mm
Index Matched Lens System
SWFA: $521.96

421424M Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope
Matte
4A w/ Illuminated Dot
30mm
Rainguard
SWFA: $389.95

Everyone I know who has one loves it and it has much more eye relief for more mounting options. It just seems like a variable will suit your needs more and you will not be disappointed with either scope.