Trimming Lapua Brass

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Jaywalker

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Question - What case trimmers work with the 6.5X55 Swedish?

I think the Lapua 6.5X55 brass with a larger head size gives me a problem with trimmer chuck collets in the Forster.

I just got a Forster Original Trimmer and with the collet screw in place the Lapua brass wouldn't "click" into place while assembled - I don't think the collet can spread while inside the housing. (It would "click" while outside the housing.)

Basically, I would have to take the collet screw all the way out for each case. That's too much trouble, so it's going back to Midway. What should I replace it with?

Jaywalker
 
Wilson trimmers are prolly the best for hand operated trimmers (you can use srcewdriver too). Very accurate and repeatable; you use a different "collar" for each caliper. Wonderful and simple design.

Dave
 
Yeah, that looks like a good choice, thanks. Midway's closed, so I can't arrange the return, but I'll do it tomorrow.

Jaywalker
 
WildAlaska,

I suspect the problem with the Forster isn't that it's 6.5 Swede, but that I'm using Lapua brass with it, and the head size is just enough bigger than US brass that the collet won't hold it. I think I recall you use Lapua brass too, so Lyman may work for me if I can't get a Wilson.

It's a Ruger M77 MkII 6.5X55, and is nearly phenomenally accurate. With my home-made trigger job, home-made bedding (my first, in both cases), and a cheap Weaver K-4, I get sub-MOA groups. In fact, four of five shots went into .26 and .31 inches. I just mounted a new Leupie VX-III 2.5-8X to see if I could improve those fifth shots...

Load was 46g RL-22, and the best groups were with target bullets, of course, Hornady A-Max.

I'm generally using a Lee Neck Sizing die, which deserves a lot of the credit.

Here's a link to pics of the groups I mentioned.

Jaywalker
 
I love to read posts about the 6.5 x 55 Swedish mauser. It was the first cartridge that I ever loaded for.
I don't have any modern rifles in this caliber, just model 96 Carl Gustav's.
We all know their reputation, but they aren't quite as robust as modern guns, and I load them accordingly.
In the last year, I've rebarreled three of these fine guns with original military barrels. It fixes a lot of the long throat problems. They still have long throats, just not long throats with almost 100 years of use (some of which was with corrosive prmers).
I have six different load combinations worked up to try for the latest rifle that I built for my nephew. It's a Model 38 TURKISH Mauser with a 29.25 inch Swede barrel on it. It should be able to take a bit more pressure than the Model 96 Swede, although I'm not going to over do it at all. I'm not sure that the case itself can withstand 3000 fps with a 140 gr bullet!
Anyway, I've got these loads to try
1) 36 gr of IMR 3031 with a 140 gr Sierra SPBT bullet
2) 45 gr of IMR 4831 with a 140 gr Sierra SPBT bullet
3) 35 gr of IMR 4064 with a 140 gr Sierra SPBT bullet
4) 38 gr of IMR 4895 with a 140 gr Sierra SPBT bullet
5) 44 gr of IMR 4350 with a 140 gr Sierra SPBT bullet
6) 45 gr of Alliant RL22 with a 140 gr Sierra SPBT bullet

If I get to try them tomorrow(Sunday June 27th) I'll post back and let you know the results.
Manitou
 
O boy swede buddies!

OK Im shooting a swede M41B sniper, 29 inch barrel. my best 5 shot group in load development to date was .838, my best 3 shot was .250. I think my five shot groups are averaging about 1.1, thats mostly me, not the gun or the load. ( I start geting tired later in the strings and my groups open....)

Right now I am using Lapau brass, 43.8g RL22. Fed 210M primer, sierra 140MKs, OAL average varies and I am playing with it, tommorrow is 3.060..I am on the my fith loading of this brass, hoooray at .43 per unit..

Last week 50 shots averaged 2576 which is close to what mil ball averages..

Lat week I had an extreem spread between the highest and lowest velocity of about 146, I think that is due to loading technique that I need to improve on...now I am dumping light loads via a measure and then trickling up..

I dont clean in between strings consequently the last 5-10 shots show higher velcity..

WildlovemyswedeAlaska
 
WildAleaskaMan (Lodge Brother of the Swede),
Maybe your crimp has something to do with differing velocities?
I don't own a chrony (yet), so I can't vouch for the velocity on any loads that I shoot. I just have to go with the published data velocity. Barrel length makes things interesting.
I am most excited about the RL22 load from Alliant. It seems to fill the case to the most desireable 90+% without compressing the load.
I've heard good things about it!
Your Mauser Pal
Manitou
 
WA,

Couple of things you might want to try.

First, a rabbit-ear rear bag to ensure the recoil goes the same direction each time. I have a recent post you might want to look at on the subject. It helped my later groups and stopped the stringing I ws getting.

Second, there've been studies going back to Warren Page (I think) showing that thrown charges are more accurate than weighed charges.

Jaywalker
 
Jaywalker,
Sorry to stray from the original topic. I have trimmed American brass (WIN and REM) in my Forster trimmer. I have also trimmed the old Yugoslavian brass with the headstamp nny 6.5 x 55 that was sold as Hansen brass in the early '90's. All of these types of brass haven't been a problem in my trimmer. Maybe its me! I don't really think I Conan down on the tightening screw, but I've always been able to get everything tight enough for a good trim. Everyone has different experiences, but my Forster has always been pretty reliable. YMMV (standard disclaimer when your opinion is a little different than someone else's, but you still respect them and their opinion)
Manitou
 
First, a rabbit-ear rear bag to ensure the recoil goes the same direction each time. I have a recent post you might want to look at on the subject. It helped my later groups and stopped the stringing I ws getting.
Click to expand...

O the lousy groups are defiantely me I can tell when I touch one off :)

I am trying to avoid the use of too many bags, trying to make it more "realistic" testing of my skills (or lack thereof)..

Todays 5 shot groups......874 in a touching zig zag horizontal string, 1.04 in a cluster with two shots touching, .843 in a cluster with two shots touching,, .887 vertical string 4 shots touching and one off,, 1.3 vertical string with two separate touching groups, .844 cluster with two separated touching sub groups vertical diagonal, and a 1.2 cluster.

All of my shots at about 105 yards. The groups center apparently are about 1/2 inch right from poa, which means I need to just touch the windage adjustment (hate those opposing screws!)

Maybe your crimp has something to do with differing velocities?
Click to expand...

I dont crimp. I am however seriously considering a bushing die for "Da Swede".. I am also gonna seat out just a hair more....

Also have to anneal this batch of cases...wait until dark...

Second, there've been studies going back to Warren Page (I think) showing that thrown charges are more accurate than weighed charges.
Click to expand...

Thats what many people say...I think, if I had a regular production rifle, I would throw. But with my portable reloading set up, I just dont think I will abe able to throw consistent charges. I am throwing undersized into the pan and trickling to wieght...dont want to make a mistake and hurt "Da Swede"


One thing I am doing is gonna try the 139 grain Lapua scenars....anybody else tried them???...wonder if I have to change my load.....

Ialso note how hard it is to shoot when Spiff is raing 22 brass down my shirt..or waiting till I am ready to shoot and touchin off some of the stinky Romanian 8mm about 2 feet from my ear!

WildhopeswmboletsmegetalymanelectronicscalemeasureAlaska
 
WildAlaska:
I am trying to avoid the use of too many bags, trying to make it more "realistic" testing of my skills (or lack thereof)..
Click to expand...
That's certainly valid. I intend to do the same thing, once I get a load that I know the rifle shoots consistently; I don't want to confuse rifle error for shooter error.

Manitou:
I have trimmed American brass (WIN and REM) in my Forster trimmer. I have also trimmed the old Yugoslavian brass with the headstamp nny 6.5 x 55 that was sold as Hansen brass in the early '90's. All of these types of brass haven't been a problem in my trimmer.
Click to expand...
Well, it could also be me. Let me ask about Forster trimming procedures: do you have to remove the entire collet screw mechanism from the housing in order to insert a case, or do you just back the screw off slightly? With mine, I have to remove the entire thing. If that's the way everyone does it, maybe I just have to adjust my expectations.

Jaywalker
 
I spoke to the folks at Forster regarding the issue and we discussed the case head sizes. They had been unaware that the 6.5 Swede had a larger head size (.479") than standard US cases (0.473"). They said their #2 Collet would work and that they'd note the difference in future specs for the appropriate cases.

Jaywalker
 
Jaywalker,
I just measured my cases (Rem, Win, and nny) and the Rem's measured about .4735, the Win's measured about .4745, and the nny's measured about .4790.
Then I went and pulled the collet out of my Forsters to see which one I had in. It was stamped #1. So I put the collet back in the trimmer, and tried all three of the cases. They all fit and locked up, but the nny case was a tighter fit. It didn't actually snap into place, but it was tighter.
I've had this trimmer since about 1992, so I'm trying to remember if I might have taken out the collet and "sprung" it open a little bit. I kind of think I did. I don't change collets very often at all, since I mostly reload for American Rifle cartriges like .300 Sav, 30-06, 30-30, .270, 7mm-08, etc.
About the only oddball (and I mean that in a nice way WildAlaska) is the 6.5 x 55.
I once tried to trim some .45 ACP shells, and had to moove the collet up closer to the trim cutter. Then I found out it was a waste of time to trim them and haven't ever since.
Anyway, I think that I removed the collet and held it in my left hand, and got a piece of 9/32 (.2812) drill rod ( or the non fluted end of a 9/32 inch drill bit) and inserted it and slightly sprung the collet open. If you wouldn't want to do this with a new Forster trimmer, I understand.
That's what I did, about 12 years ago, so my memory isn't to clear on it anymore. Hope this helps.
Manitou
 
Yeah, I don't think I want to bend anything just yet. The #2 collet seems like an easy fix, if I don't want to get the Wilson.

How about a different, though related, question: how do you use these trimmers? Do you set a length and just mill off until you get to it, or do you have to continually remeasure, taking the case out each time?

Jaywalker
 
Greetings O fellow Swede shooters! I'm new to the Swede and new to reloading. I would like to load for my CG63. Anyone use a RCBS trimpro case trimmer with good results? Also, not to change the subject, but what brand of dies are all of you using? I picked up a set of Lee dies including a factory crimp die to start with but I'm sure there is better out there. Thx.
 
Most of my dies are Lee but I recently picked up a set of Hornady dies for my .340 Weatherby and I'm very impressed with them. The neck expander has a large and long taper to it that creates less resistance when reloading and I love their clamping style locking collars.

The Lee collet neck sizing die has a fabulous reputation for accuracy, their FL sizing dies aren't anything special from what I've seen.

In the future my 1st choice in dies will be Hornady.
 
Last edited:
Ahem.

Do you set the trimmers to a certain length or do you trim, check, trim, check, trim, until done each time?

Jaywalker
 
Jaywalker,
First I measure a case to make sure that it's to long. (Sometimes they're just right or slightly short)
Then I set up so that I just barely take a little shaving off of the case.
Then it's just as you said, trim check, trim check, trim check.
The adjusting screw on my trimmer (and yours too I believe) is a #8-32 thread. One complete counterclockwise turn of this screw will reduce your case length by .03125, one half turn will reduce it by .01562, and one quarter turn will reduce case length by almost .008. This way you can gauge approximately how much to back out the screw depending upon the amount you want to remove. It's just how I do it, others may have a better way.
Manitou
Edited to say that once you are set to the correct length, as long as you place your empty cartridge in the same way, all of them should be the same length.
After I have it set up and trimming to the length I want, I put the next case in the trimmer and just snug up the collet lightly. Then I insert the pilot into the mouth of the case until the blade touches the brass. Then I rotate the cutter in the opposite direction while putting pressure against the case. This lines up the neck, and pushes the case back into the collet.
While I'm rotating in the opposite direction, I tighten up the collet.
Then I rotate in the cutting direction to do the actual trimming.
I know this all sounds incredibly convoluted and time consuming, but it takes seconds once you get the hang of it, and it has always given me good results. You shouldn't have to check every case, every tenth or so I'll check one.
 
Manitou:
Edited to say that once you are set to the correct length, as long as you place your empty cartridge in the same way, all of them should be the same length.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that answers my question.

And thanks also for the good procedures for the trimmer. I hadn't thought to reverse-turn to seat the case better.

Jaywalker
 
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