Trouble with .270 Win FL Dies

[RobInBrisbane]

G'day folks,

After reloading for my .223 for quite some time now, I've just started reloading for my new .270, however, I've come across something odd.

When reloading for the .223, I can quite easily set-up the die so that the faces of the shell-holder and die meet at the top of the stroke. From there I make the normal adjustments etc. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

With the .270, when I set the die up in the same way (screw the die in so that the die + shell holder faces touch at top of the stroke etc.) and put an empty shell in to de-cap/re-size it, the press-ram stops firmly with about 1/4 - 3/8 inch between the die and shell-holder. The faces don't come anywhere near together as they do when sizing my .223. My understanding is regardless of the calibre, the die and shell holder should close completely together with none of the shell visible.

The de-capping pin is set normally with .400 protruding below the face of the die.

The press is a Hornady Classic and the die and shell-holder are both RCBS. The brass is Federal.

The die is stamped "RCBS 270 WIN FL . 13"

Is this normal for a .270 when resizing, or is something amiss here?

I really can't think of anything I've gone about incorrectly. :banghead:

Any help appreciated!

 

[savanahsdad]

it should go all the way in , you can back it off a bit if you don't want to bump the shoulder all the way back , but it should go all the way in , what are you using for lube ?

 

[rcmodel]

Are you using any case lube?

If so, what kind and how much?

rc

 

[RobInBrisbane]

Thanks for your quick reply!

I'm using Hornady OneShot with Redding Imperial Dry on the necks; Same as I've always used.

 

[savanahsdad]

I'm at a loss ? I see you said your decapping pin is .400 , ? that is .100 less than a half inch , try backing the decapping pin out ,

is it popping out the primers ? or is the case stopping before it gets that far ?

 

[RobInBrisbane]

Yeah, I can't think of anything other than perhaps a bad die, albeit a rarity.

I might drop into the gun shop tomorrow and see it they can offer any insight. Might even take my press and the shell holder etc. so I can show them everything.

Certainly a strange one!

 

[RobInBrisbane]

It was popping the primers out no problem but just for the exercise, I removed the de-capping pin altogether and tried a shell and it made no difference.

Definitely something weird going on there.

 

[billybob44]

Lube Change...

The .270Win. case is a "Necked Down" .30-06Springfield case. It takes some pressure to Full Length resize.

That said, you NEED a GOOD lube to resize...

For ME Hornady One Shot is NOT up to speed for this much pressure to resize.

I use Imperial Size Wax, placed on the case one-by-one with my fingers. (Keep off of necks+shoulders or you will get dents)

Normal die set up: Screw in size die until it touches the shell holder with the ram in the fully up position, and then screw 1/8 to 1/4 turn additional.

Your brass MUST go fully into the die in this position.

TRUST ME--Use a good lube=Imperial Size Wax, or Hornady Unique, or you WILL also learn how to use a "Stuck Case Remover"...Bill.

PS:Your Expander/Decap rod should ONLY be screwed in far enough to push out the primer-Do NOT bottom out inside of the case..

 

[Joe's]

RobInBrisbane,

I think savanahsdad has your problem figured out. The mandrel that sizes the neck is hitting on the inside bottom of the case.

Take the expanding mandrel out of the die and then set your die the same as always. Then try and size a case. The gap at the top of the stroke should close. If it doesn't then the problem is in your die or the lube. Hope this helps!

G'day
Joe's

 

[billybob44]

Yeah, I can't think of anything other than perhaps a bad die, albeit a rarity.

I might drop into the gun shop tomorrow and see it they can offer any insight. Might even take my press and the shell holder etc. so I can show them everything.

Certainly a strange one!

Good luck with that---The press will have to be bolted to a STRONG Bench..

I have an old RCBS RockChucker, and I have to "Stand" on my press handle to size .270 or 30-06 brass..HA HA..Bill.

 

[billybob44]

RobInBrisbane,

I think savanahsdad has your problem figured out. The mandrel that sizes the neck is hitting on the inside bottom of the case.

Take the expanding mandrel out of the die and then set your die the same as always. Then try and size a case. The gap at the top of the stroke should close. If it doesn't then the problem is in your die or the lube. Hope this helps!

G'day
Joe's

I thought the same, Joe, until I read the post #7.

I REALLY think that he has a "Lube Problem"...Bill.

 

[Joe's]

billybob44,
Very well could be.

Rob, I just saw you are a new member here. Welcome to the forum. Above all, keep us all posted on what you find out the problem is.

Be Well,
Joe's

 

[RobInBrisbane]

Hey guys, thanks for the welcomes and again, thanks for taking the time.

I actually tried one case to see if it was indeed just a lack of force, but there is no way this thing's gonna budge before something else gives. At most, the neck is only getting up about .200" into the bush at the top where it sizes down before the expander opens it up on the down-stroke. There is also a VERY definite crimp visible on the part of the neck that has gone in. If I measure it, it is .300" on the part that has been resized, and then a relatively sharp step-up to .310" where it stops, exactly half way along the neck.

It doesn't show any signs of friction/binding down the length of the case and I don't think the case is actually getting far enough into the taper of the die to do so, so I'm not convinced that case lube is what's causing the problem. As I said, I'm using the redding dry neck lube on the neck but is there something better you'd recommend for that that may help?

I recall a few months back, resizing some .270 cases at my father-in-law's place using his RCBS press and some Lee resizing lube via a lube pad and they needed nothing like the force I tried on these.

 

[Joe's]

Rob,
I personally like using the RCBS case slick and their lube pad.

Joe's

 

[BSA1]

Hummm...I use the same exact set-up you do; RCBS Rockchucker, RCBS FL. 2 die set, Hornady One-Shot Case Lube.

As I only own one .270 rifle I only neck size my brass. I adjust my die by coloring the outside neck of the cartridge with a black marker then adjust the die by the rub marks on the neck of the brass. I stop the die before it hits the shoulder.

Get that a try.

 

[WestKentucky]

My .270 dies are usually used in my rockchucker bur I have also used them in my jr3. It's been a few months, but the necks are usually the tough bit. The dies size the neck down, and then they expand again when the ball on the primer punch comes back through. You definately need lube...I use Pam cooking spray. A very very light coat goes a long way, try a drop on your finger then spin the case neck in that finger. I expect you see a big difference. If you have more trouble I can go ahead and set up to run .270 and take some pictures. It's my next run anyway so I don't mind tooling up to help you out.

 

[WestKentucky]

And at that depth, your expander ball may be hitting the top of the case head inside the shell. It's pretty thick down there. Back you decapping pin off until you are barely popping out primers and see where your at. You can figure that out by putting the die on the shell holder and just making sure the pin protrudes through the top portion of the shell holder.

 

[rsnell]

I have had this problem several times and traced it to a bent decappng rod. Make sure the decapping pin is not bent. Contact RCBS and they will send you a decapping rod at no cost to you.

When the die is correctly set up, it does not take any more pressure to full length resize a 223 case than a 270 case.

Bob

 

[fguffey]

the die and shell holder should close completely together with none of the shell visible.

I glanced through the responses, somewhere I think I saw something about a bushing, The only bushing dies I am familiar with are long ago and forgotten custom dies. A friend put a set together and used the incorrect top bushing, it did not take him long to figure it out because it crushed the neck of his case.

F. Guffey

 

[243winxb]

I recall a few months back, resizing some .270 cases at my father-in-law's place using his RCBS press and some Lee resizing lube via a lube pad and they needed nothing like the force I tried on these.

Lube problem.

 

[gamestalker]

Is the brass trying to stick in the die when the ram stops?

Or is this an abrupt stop?

What happens when you don't have a piece of brass in the shell holder, will the ram travel to full extension in a normal fashion?

If the ram is traveling freely, it might be that something is inside that piece of brass, thus making hard contact with the decapping pin, been there.

Or, maybe your not accustomed to the degree of resistance associated with resizing .270 win..

Or, possibly improperly lubed brass.

I rather doubt it's a bad or defective die, but that is a possibility.

GS

 

[RobInBrisbane]

G'mornin all!

Wow, a lot of helpful suggestions came in overnight so I'm gonna do some experimenting today.

I'll try some different lube up around the neck and see what comes of it.

Just to reiterate, even with the expander/de-capper completely removed from teh die, it is exactly the same resistance-wise, so the pin bottoming-out can't be the reason behind all of this.

I may also just wait until the weekend and take it out to the father-in-law's place and try it in his set-up. My memory may be clouded, but I just can't recall ever feeling so much resistance.

Big thanks again to all of you for your replies.

Rob.

 

[rcmodel]

I'll try some different lube up around the neck and see what comes of it.

Lube the whole case.

Not just the neck.

The hardest part to resize is the last 1/2 of the case back toward the head.
The brass is thicker there.

rc

 

[GLOOB]

Yeah, +1 on expander ball set too deep. You said primers are popping out, even though the cases are nearly 3/8" from fully in. That's way too early.

You said you removed the decapping pin. I am assuming you have one of those expanders where the pin can be unscrewed, but you left the expander in. This might have thrown off some folks who assumed you took out the expander ball and still had this problem. This is obviously not a lube problem, or else you would only have done it once, and you'd be asking how to remove a stuck case from your die.

Any rate, adjust the expander and try again. If that doesn't work, take the die completely apart and see if the case mouth is hitting on something.

 

[sirgilligan]

Do I dare make a comment, I am so new at this.

I was amazed when the forum members here explained to me how much a press flexes when resizing. I found that when I setup the die by turning it down until it touched the shell holder and then I turn it in a 1/16th of a turn more that the extra turn in depended on the lube some what. Less lube meant more resistance and thus the press flexed more and the case didn't go all the way in. I would have never dreamed of such a thing.

I am probably wrong.

p.s. I have resized .223, and .30-06 now. So, not much difference than what you are doing.