We're discussing a die set for 9 x 19mm...there is no expander ball or button
Redding FL 9MM Sizing Die
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NMexJim
Member
Yes, sorry. I was thinking rifle dies. The pistol expander die will have the case plug on it. Sorry again.
Just a note, when you set a die up without a case in the press, when you add a case it will not completely size the case. The added load of sizing the case will take up any slack in the system and the sizing will be short.
I generally set the sizing die up so that it kisses the shell holder without a case in the system. Then, when I size a case, I see how much space there is between the die and the shell holder. I then re-adjust the sizing die so that it just barely kisses the shell holder with a case in the system.
If that does not fix the problem, then there is an issue with the die itself.
As a side note, it is not unusual for the loaded case with a bullet seated to have a "coke bottle" shape. The body of the case is sized down a bit smaller than would normally be necessary.
I generally set the sizing die up so that it kisses the shell holder without a case in the system. Then, when I size a case, I see how much space there is between the die and the shell holder. I then re-adjust the sizing die so that it just barely kisses the shell holder with a case in the system.
If that does not fix the problem, then there is an issue with the die itself.
As a side note, it is not unusual for the loaded case with a bullet seated to have a "coke bottle" shape. The body of the case is sized down a bit smaller than would normally be necessary.
243winxb
Member
This set has a steel sizing die. Needs lube.https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012395120?pid=397560
Redding 3-Die Sets contain a full length sizing die, expander die, and bullet seating die.
A steel sizing die should have a taper built into the die. If the die is moved away from the shell holder, less sizing should happen.
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Question: If the fired brass OD is already below SAAMI specs, at the mouth and the base, do I need to re-size? Seems like I could just go into expanding for bullet seating..
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Ghost In The Fog
Member
I have an idea.
I can let you borrow my Lee carbide sizing die. That should determine if it is an issue with the Redding sizing die or if it is something else.
Text me to arrange a time.
I can let you borrow my Lee carbide sizing die. That should determine if it is an issue with the Redding sizing die or if it is something else.
Text me to arrange a time.
Fired 9MM brass will not be suitable for reloading without first sizing the case.
I'd like to see a pic of the mouth of the die. Almost looks like the carbide ring is missing from the sizer.
243winxb
Member
Yes,for a 9mm Luger, in a auto loading gun.
Note that the SAAMI drawing shows the maximums for a loaded round. The loaded rounds can be - .007" smaller.
As far as the "step", depends on much difference there is. Most dies leave a mark where they stop sizing.
Your Steel Die measurementts are ok. The expander will open the case mouth & bell it, making the OD larger.
Marks (step) on my sized brass.
243winxb
Member
Steel sizing die. I had to look up die set number.
Gotcha, so I guess without lube that was as far as they could jam the case in the die?
May need to clean galled brass out of the die, lube, and size.
243winxb
Member
What lube? Some spray types may not work as well as RCBS 2 when applied on a pad.
FYI , have never loaded 9mm Luger in 50 + years. Shot factory ammo to test fire used police guns & Lugers, years ago. But i am going to learn now.
Grandson getting a 9mm. Sizing bullets today.
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Heard back from Redding: “The FL sizing die will reduce the neck dimension of your case so that when the expander die is run into the case it can set the correct tension for your bullet which in turn alleviate that bottleneck look to your brass.”
Below are the results of follow the directions given in the die box: First with FL die, then EXP die, followed by the ST die.
Thoughts?
Side Note: Dies were thoroughly cleaned before use, brass was thoroughly cleaned then lubed with Hornady One Shot before use, upstroke and downstroke were fully completed relatively easy and smooth with no hang ups.
Do hand loads always have the hourglass shape?
Below are the results of follow the directions given in the die box: First with FL die, then EXP die, followed by the ST die.
Thoughts?
Side Note: Dies were thoroughly cleaned before use, brass was thoroughly cleaned then lubed with Hornady One Shot before use, upstroke and downstroke were fully completed relatively easy and smooth with no hang ups.
Do hand loads always have the hourglass shape?
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NMexJim
Member
Ahh Jeeze. After my incorrect die info last night, I went red-faced into the loading room this morning. I measured an un-fired case and then took it through the FL and the Expander without trying for a bullet flare. Here are my measurements using all Winchester brass:
- Fired case
- Mouth .384 OD
- Mouth .357 ID (.355 bullet should drop-in)
- Down at the web/head .391
- Through FL Sizer
- Mouth .377 OD (so your dies are right on at this point)
- Mouth .350 ID
- Web/head .390
- Expander
- Mouth .380 OD (expanded out .003)
- Mouth .354 ID (expanded out .004)
- Wed/head unchanged
So, a three-die pistol set is kinda like a two-die rifle set in that you compress down and expand back out to desired dims, but the rifle only needs two dies to get the job done. No flare required. I don't know how I got off on a rifle die last night other than it was late. Anyway.
The two dies - FL and Expander are required to take a fired case back to a reloadable condition with the case plug re-profiling the case after FL compression which also gives enough neck tension to hold the bullet.
I can't remember ever noticing the taper as in your photo, but the mic shows it's there. SAAMI calls for .391 at the web and .381 at the mouth as you've shown in the drawing.
As far as final loaded OD dims, I was taught way back to mic the bullet, then mic the thickness of the wall at the mouth x 2. So, .355 bullet + (.012 wall x 2) = .379. Note that your case and bullet may be different. This would be the dim I would shoot for. I think .373 is too much crimp. Adjust your seater die to relieve this. Some use .375 and some .379. It's what works for you. I don't like to have so much crimp that I engrave the bullet. I think it messes with accuracy.
I'm enclosing a scan of my Redding die instruction in case you don't have one.
Also a picture of a flared case.
These days, I just take out the flare at seating. In fact, I use .380. I happened to have mic'ed the taper crimp for all the factory ammo I have. Here's what I found.
1. Winchester white box - .379
2. UMC - .382
3. Federal - .380
4. Amerian Eagle - .381
and:
1. Rem Golden Sabre - .382
2. Fed HST - .381
3. Fed Hydra Shok - .381
4. Win Ranger T - .380
Hope this helps. Keep plugging away.
Jim
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Correct.
The bottom of the die should be just barely not touching the shell holder or plate when actually sizing case, and just barely touching won't hurt.
Three sized cases.
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I’ll make couple more dummy rounds with the adjustments recommended by NMexJim and post them. The bullets I used are 115grain with and OD of +/- .354.
I set up the die per the instructions “Screw the full length die into your reloading press until it touches the shell holder.” But like PO2Hammer said, it doesn’t look like it’s sizing very much of the case.
I set up the die per the instructions “Screw the full length die into your reloading press until it touches the shell holder.” But like PO2Hammer said, it doesn’t look like it’s sizing very much of the case.
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NMexJim
Member
In the cut-away of a 9mm, note how thick the tapered web of the case is. The SAAMI dims for a chamber are .3913 but look at the notes and it will tell you that cutting tolerence is +.004, soi under high pressure, you might see more movement. Even so, it would be a high-pressure load indeed that moved the head outward very much. I had some hot +P+ brass that was still in the .0392 range.
What have you done as far as the next die, the Expander die? It should also touch the shell holder at set-up. Then turn the expander plug down until you touch the case mouth. At this point, you should have no or very little flare, but the expander plug should have expanded the case back to something that looks normal. To get a flare or bell, turn the die in more until the mouth looks like the flared cartridge in the photo. Just a slight flare that takes up very little case length.
What is the brass you're using? I haven't found any new factory rounds in mine that measures less than .390 at the web.
PM me direct and I'll send you my phone number.
What have you done as far as the next die, the Expander die? It should also touch the shell holder at set-up. Then turn the expander plug down until you touch the case mouth. At this point, you should have no or very little flare, but the expander plug should have expanded the case back to something that looks normal. To get a flare or bell, turn the die in more until the mouth looks like the flared cartridge in the photo. Just a slight flare that takes up very little case length.
What is the brass you're using? I haven't found any new factory rounds in mine that measures less than .390 at the web.
PM me direct and I'll send you my phone number.
mrawesome22-250
Member
Looks like that size die missed the final reaming step.
Send it in and they"ll replace it.
There is no way I'd mess with a steel die for 9x19mm. I can't imagine having to lube every single piece of brass when carbide dies are available.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011210541
This is what you want.
Send it in and they"ll replace it.
There is no way I'd mess with a steel die for 9x19mm. I can't imagine having to lube every single piece of brass when carbide dies are available.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011210541
This is what you want.
I would think a better match for his Redding dies would be a Sizer from Mighty Armory (MA)
https://www.mightyarmory.com/collections/sizing-dies/products/hobby-380acp-sizing-die
MA makes excellent reloading tools and is an example of: Buy Once, Cry Once
OP
OP
Ghost In The Fog
Member
Lots of good advise here. as always.
If it was me, I would do as @mrawesome22-250 suggested. Either buy the Lee single carbide die or I would go with the complete die set including the taper crimp die and return the Redding.
I do believe that if the sizing die is not working correctly, the expanding and seating die will not fix the problem. If it doesn't fit- don't force it. The other dies are not designed to compensate for a sizing issue. Each die does a very specific job dependent on the die before working properly.
Have you done a plunk test? Do you have a case gauge? If not, this is critical info for a new reloader to help eliminate guesswork.
Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 380 ACP (midwayusa.com)
Can't go wrong with Lee or Midway. I have over 10,000 through my dies and they work perfect.
Depending on how you drop your powder, since you are using a single stage press you might be able to just go with the three die set. I would buy the 4 die because it never hurts to have it and you may move on from the single stage.
The crimp die is sometimes disputed here whether it is needed or not. As a new reloader in my opinion it is an extra step of protection to prevent a possible kaboom. I still use it with every 9MM round I load.
If you do decide to buy new pistol dies, make sure the sizing die is carbide.
If it was me, I would do as @mrawesome22-250 suggested. Either buy the Lee single carbide die or I would go with the complete die set including the taper crimp die and return the Redding.
I do believe that if the sizing die is not working correctly, the expanding and seating die will not fix the problem. If it doesn't fit- don't force it. The other dies are not designed to compensate for a sizing issue. Each die does a very specific job dependent on the die before working properly.
Have you done a plunk test? Do you have a case gauge? If not, this is critical info for a new reloader to help eliminate guesswork.
Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 380 ACP (midwayusa.com)
Can't go wrong with Lee or Midway. I have over 10,000 through my dies and they work perfect.
Depending on how you drop your powder, since you are using a single stage press you might be able to just go with the three die set. I would buy the 4 die because it never hurts to have it and you may move on from the single stage.
The crimp die is sometimes disputed here whether it is needed or not. As a new reloader in my opinion it is an extra step of protection to prevent a possible kaboom. I still use it with every 9MM round I load.
If you do decide to buy new pistol dies, make sure the sizing die is carbide.
Okay, so I’ve ordered a Lee carbide single sizing die and am still in talks with Redding. Obviously my timing is terrible getting into reloading. I don’t have any primers yet and my goal with the 9mm cases was to get them prepped for the day I miraculously happen upon some. The die should be here early next week and I will give it go with all the advice you all have willingly given. I will touch base with an update of Redding’s remedy and when I get the Lee die set up and run a few pieces through. Again, I appreciate everyone’s help and I’m glad to be part of the reloading club, or at least a prospect.
NMexJim
Member
Yes, please do. I think we'll all learn something from this.
NMexJim
Member
One last thing. If you're communicating w/ Redding via email, I'd recommend you call them - voice being better than mail. I think their tech will walk you through it all. If there is a problem w/ the dies, he'll probably send you a mailing label.
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