Trouble with the cops.

[Gnarkill]

I was leaving a friends house today @ around 11PM. I crossed from a country road to a freeway (65 speedlimit) and was driving. I had just been shooting which made this even more fun/awkward. I got pulled over by two cops (double teaming w/ 2 cars). I was under the influence of nothing during this situation.

-The officer (good guy) asks me the usual and says I was going 80 for a sec, I replied that I may have accelerated up to 80 brief, but that wasn't my intent. I told him I was driving a little over 70, or at least trying too. He said I was basically ping ponging inside my lane, which I did not do. The 2 cops pull me over and ask me to get out of my car, uncommon. I had already given them my info and I'm curious what happens next. I guess i gave tehm attitude through asking a polite question. They patted me down and put me in the back of their car while I persisted in asking questions about why I'm getting pseudo arrested. The car is mine, i've commited no crimes other than a speeding ticket. I did have guns in the car stored legally. I think they were trying to find something to stick on me. I had no knife, the guns were locked in cases, or in the trunk. I have a CCW permit so there was no trouble there. The cops even checked my vin numbers. I was more shocked/insulted than anything else. I am not a crimminal and I don't appreciate being treated as such. I was them open my car door to look at something, but if they would've search from inside the car it would've been through out, they had no justifyable search. After chatting w/ Radio and sweating me I was let out of the police car and told I was free to go. They re-covered me not being on drugs and me being able to drive. My eyes weren't glazed, had 0 alcohol and no "stoner eyes" I looked right at them to assist in their analysis of my eyes. These guys were just looking for a reason to charge me w/ something. They asked how many guns are in the car, I didn't tell them and changed the subject. If I have 8 guns in the car that's my business.
I was unhappy and irritated with this stop. Although I was speedying a bit, that isn't a ticket to hassle me when I am obviously not a criminal.
Thoughts?

 

[RH822]

80 in a 65 at 11pm, you should have been pulled over and if getting treated like a common criminal slows your ass down, then I think the Police have succeeded in their mission. Think of all the ammo that ticket could have bought.
Have a Happy Day.

RH

 

[Trebor]

Did they make you prone out while they did a complete search of your person or did they just do a "Terry frisk" of you? Did they handcuff you or just put you in the back of their car?

Giving you a Terry frisk and putting you in the back of their car for the duration of the stop isn't the same as being arrested. If you were arrested, you'd understand the difference.

The officers are allowed to pat you down for weapon (Terry frisk) and place you in their car for the duration of the stop for "officer safety." Yes, like everything, that can be abused, but it is a common and accepted practice.

Now, if they searched your car without your consent they would have had to be able to articulate "probable cause" if they wanted anything they found to hold up in court. They do not always need your consent if they can articulate why your actions, and the totality of the circumstances, led them to believe a crime had been committed. Obviously they didn't do a full search of your car or they would have pulled out your guns, ran the serial numbers, etc.

Personally, why it always sucks to get pulled over, and sucks more to get hassled, I don't see anything actionable here from your account.

Btw, I'm not an attorney, this is not legal advice, etc, etc.

 

[oldgold]

If the 'Columbus' in your profile is in Ohio and the officers were sheriffs officers then I know why. 80mph got you ran and CCW flagged to your vehicle. FCSO officers have been instructed to hassle ccw owners. Most SO's don't agree but once your in their log they gotta go through the motions. This came direct from a FCSO that I know. Sheriff hates CCW people.

One time I had a visit from the locals to ask about my car. Seems make model, and liscense were identified as the getaway vehicle in a bank robbery.
Took officer to dealership where the car sat waiting a new engine, [old engine removed]. Officers just doing their job, no real hassle.

 

[delta53]

Double check

I had to do a :banghead: double check it sounded like NJ Its the way they do it here if your alone at night your there prisoner till they get tired of looking for something to nail you with

 

[1911Tuner]

Need for Speed

Usually, a radar setup that time of night is because of repeated complaints of speeding in an area at certain times. You probably just happened to go through the red zone and got nailed.

On the upside, count yourself lucky. In some jurisdictions, 80/65 will getcha a trip down to lockup and a phone call to see if you've got a friend who'll come post bail.

 

[Lucky]

Gnarkill go here: http://www.flexyourrights.org/

And watch the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

It gets removed often, though, so watch it while it's up.

WATCH THE VIDEO

And this about frisking: http://www.flexyourrights.org/fourth_amendment_supreme_court_cases

80 in a 65 at 11pm, you should have been pulled over and if getting treated like a common criminal slows your ass down, then I think the Police have succeeded in their mission. Think of all the ammo that ticket could have bought.
Have a Happy Day.

RH

Holy crap dude, do you even realize that 30 years ago there were no such things as speed limits on highways?! Up to a point it's understandable to be ignorant about the world, but seriously this isn't some big secret, it's unjust rules foisted upon a populace during a time of brief turmoil. Sound familiar? People like you are going to be just fine with rifles being banned 30 years from now.

Think about it - his crime was traveling too fast. Think about that. Traveling too fast. That's a crime. Say it out loud. Seriously.

 

[Jamie C.]

Gnarkill, you're lucky.
You admitted speeding, but you still gave them "attitude". Not bright.

A fellow about 10 years ago here ended up paying $250, plus court cost, because of his "attitude".

Myself and another officer stopped him just before sunup because he was speeding and had a headlight out. S.O.P. at the time was to tell him to slow down, and let him know he needed to get the light fixed.

However, he ended up being a real ass, and got a citation for both items, instead of just being sent on his way. ( I honestly thought we might have to shoot him, before it was over. He was acting that crazy. )

Anyway... the moral of the story is this: If you get stopped by the police, and you know and admit you were breaking the law.... BEHAVE YOURSELF.

Use some "common" sense, and act like an adult. Save the "attitude" for some other time and situation.
It'll go a lot easier for everybody involved if you do.

P.S. Are you folks aware that a traffic ticket is "Citation in lieu of arrest"? Meaning that you could be arrested? A college girl discovered that here a few months ago, when she refused to sign the ticket. It made the local news.



J.C.

 

[Autolite]

Cops are human, maybe they were just bored. I was hassled for the better part of a year buy one local cop who was never able to find anything to charge me with. He would use the same "weaving in lane" tactic because, of course, it doesn't require any substantiation. After several "hassle" stops I just switched cars and the problem went away ...

 

[sansone]

I can not travel the NJturnpike without getting searched. I don't know if it's the beard, the beat-up pickup truck, or just plain crappy cops. one time I was napping in a designated rest area and they hammered on the window to get me out. they proceeded to search the truck. gives people a bad impression of police behavior. most cops are just doing their job with respect for the public

 

[dralarms]

Jamie's right. I was stopped not to long ago doing 67 in a 45. I simply told the officer that I didn't relaize I was speeding and I was sorry, gave him my DL, Carry permit, registration and insurance card. He came back in 5 min with a wanring ticket no less. I thanked him and told him I would be more careful.

 

[El Tejon]

So, you talked yourself into more hassle?

1. Be polite. Do not resist or run.
2. Say as little as possible. Do not explain, do not guess.
3. Do not consent to any searches.
4. Ask if you are free to go.

Jaime, depends on the state. Down there they arrest for infractions. Heck, they even take you to jail for not paying traffic tickets down there as a fellow state resident of yours discovered.

His location says "Columbus", but not what state. Could be Indiana, Ohio, Geogia, inter alia.

 

[1911Tuner]

Speed Limits

Lucky wrote:

> crap dude, do you even realize that 30 years ago there were no such things as speed limits on highways?!<
*************

Well...I guess I'd better file for a refund for all those fines and higher insurance costs. It was about 30 years ago that the dot-gov mandated a nationwide 55-mph speed limit on all roads...interstates included. Before the "Double Nickel Law", speed limits were 65 and 70 in most places. There have been speed limits on highways since before I started driving...and that was way more than 30 years ago. I do remember a stretch of road in Nevada that didn't have a posted speed limit. However...reckless driving statutes were in full effect, and a reasonable, self-imposed limit dictated by road conditions was the rule of the day. Let a trooper see you blastin' along with the speedometer pegged...and you'd get a ticket.

 

[Jamie C.]

Think about it - his crime was traveling too fast. Think about that. Traveling too fast. That's a crime. Say it out loud. Seriously.

Lucky, "Traveling too fast" kills more people every year than guns do. And I've lost count of how many idiot kids I've pulled out of mangled cars and trucks, and scraped up off the road, or picked out of trees, because they were driving faster than they could actually handle.
Think about that.

And I was alive 30 years ago. I don't know about Canada, but there were speed limits here.


J.C.

 

[Geno]

Gnarkill:

I used to patrol about 100 evenings per year with my brother-in-law. I had some pretty exciting experiences...B&Es, high speed chases, resisting arrests, family spats, transfer a heart transplant across two counties (rare...usually with-in 1 county). Let me tell you what probably happened.

The radar unit can be set for a predetermined speed to provide the officer an audio alert, say +10 MPH. The system also allows an auto-lock or a manual-lock. My brother-in-law was required to have it on manual lock. The radar had to alert two times. On the 2nd alert, the officers were now permitted to manually lock the speed and pull the speeder over. I would bet you a dime that they read you at 80, but did not get you locked at 80. You should have asked, "At what speed did your radar lock me?"

If you had confronted this situation with common sense instead of common attitude you would have been posting a whole different happening.


Autolite:

You needed to mount a video camera in your vehicle and go for a ride. Then, when you were pulled over for the BS, keep recording. Post it on You Tube and let society have to.

Doc2005

 

[Dave P]

"These guys were just looking for a reason to charge me w/ something."


Overall, it sounds like a fishing expedition more than anything else. 2 cops looking for something to do late at night.

And I read nothing in your story thats says you had an attitude with them.

 

[PrimaryB]

Hello Gnar. Take this lightly please but it seems you were put in a position of submissiveness. I gather you don't feel comfortable with that. Everybody experiences that through their daily lives. Employers, supervisors and even wifes. You said you were persistent in your questioning? You created an environment that PD obviously doesn't like. Remember that they don't know you from Jack. They should be suspicious of you. Take it with a grain of salt and move on and learn. I hate paying for something that I don't get a return on and I'm sure the same applies to you. Have a better day today.

PB

 

[romma]

Sorry, a speeding ticket is NO reason to search a car IMO. Not even a reason to pull you out of the driver seat for a Terry frisk. And, there is no law requiring anyone to be a nice docile sheep when pulled over either... However, being polite to at least give the police the benefit of the doubt is only common sense. Sadly, some police think it's okay to break the law to enforce it.

 

[Geno]

When he exited the vehicle he should have: 1) closed the windows, 2) taken the keys, 3) locked the doors and 4) closed the doors securely. For good measure, 5) put them on notice...do not enter w/o warrant.

There is a thread here that has a video detailing how to avoid arrest/harassment. I tried to link it, but it is unavailable. It is in this thread:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3195837#post3195837

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Don't speed/break traffic laws and you won't get stopped. It is that simple.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

Lucky, "Traveling too fast" kills more people every year than guns do.

I am pretty sure driver error is what kills most of the people. Somebody gets t-boned? It wasn't because someone was going too fast, it was because they ran a red light (or stop sign), their speed wasn't the cause of the crime. That is like saying murder is dependent on the weapon. People can die from a knife or a gun, but some idiot has decide that action.

I can drive 100 miles an hour on the interstate and be fine. However, driving 50 (half that speed) down a highway is probably more dangerous.

Don't speed/break traffic laws and you won't get stopped. It is that simple.

There ya go.

 

[Lucky]

Don't speed/break traffic laws and you won't get stopped. It is that simple.

Rather simplistic and not entirely true. They didn't know he was speeding, and the original poster disputes the assertion that he was swerving. Some places the wrong license plates are enough to get someone pulled over. And an increasing number of places set up road blocks and search every vehicle and driver who passes through. Where I am it's a crime if you DON'T give evidence against yourself.

Lucky, "Traveling too fast" kills more people every year than guns do. And I was alive 30 years ago. I don't know about Canada, but there were speed limits here.

It's not the traveling, just the stopping And when my parents were growing up there most definitely were not the rigorous 'speed limits' of today. I don't think it's out of line to suggest that if there was not such a profitable industry associated with taxing travelers it would not be so rigorously enforced. I'll go so far as to suggest that the reason speed limits are enforced is mainly for the revenue generated.

... It was about 30 years ago that the dot-gov mandated a nationwide 55-mph speed limit on all roads...interstates included. Before the "Double Nickel Law", speed limits were 65 and 70 in most places. There have been speed limits on highways since before I started driving...and that was way more than 30 years ago....

I traveled in Montana when they had no speed limits, and guess what - I'm still here to talk about it. Once people got over the novelty, they just drove like I described in 'the old days'. ...Then the federal gov't decided that was a bit too much freedom, and suggested that Montana wouldn't receive their share of the funding for highways, though they would still be required to pony up and pay full taxes.




Really, safety-first is only logical. But infringing on people's freedoms is not justifiable by slight supposed benefits. Reckless driver's won't be affected by a sign beside the road. And every other driver who travels at a pace they are comfortable and safe with is punished. Pretty much exactly what happens when government gets it's tentacles wrapped around something - collective punishment for the innocent, and slight inconvenience for the guilty. And of course thousands or millions of bureaucrats and their nephews get cush jobs, forcibly paid by the public to milk money from the public.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

FCSO officers have been instructed to hassle ccw owners.

You know if there is a similar 'instruction' in Greene County Ohio? I am probably going to take my test in June.

 

[1911Tuner]

Speed Kills

HMH wrote:

>I am pretty sure driver error is what kills most of the people.<
************

While that's at least technically correct, I'll have to disagree that error is the deciding factor. Error causes the accident. Speed makes the accident more devastating. Speed also provides a narrower window of opportunity to correct the error. I can correct for oversteer easier and much more positively and smoothly at 35 mph than at 100 mph...and if I do happen to lose control and hit something, my odds of being killed drop exponentially with reduced speed.

So...let us agree that error initiates the problem, but that speed multiplies the terminal effect.
*****************

Another qoute:

>I can drive 100 miles an hour on the interstate and be fine.<
**********

So can I...but it's that pesky unknown that I can't bet on. The other guy switching lanes as I start to pull alongside him. The deer on the side of the road that stands still and spooks at the last second. The thrown tractor-trailer recap that's just out of sight on the other side of the slight rise as I reach the top. The little old lady driving 45 mph in a 70 zone that's just over the next rise. See...it's not just you or me that's using that stretch of road. It's ol' Uncle Joe or Aunt Sue that throws a monkey wrench in the machinery.

 

[Jamie C.]

I am pretty sure driver error is what kills most of the people.

Driving a vehicle faster than you can safely handle it is "driver error".

I can drive 100 miles an hour on the interstate and be fine.

And how will you do if a tire blows out at that speed? Or if an unexpected obstacle shows up in front of you?

The fact is, most people aren't as capable behind the wheel as they think they are. And when a situation occurs that shows this fact, it's usually termed "Driver's Error".

That is like saying murder is dependent on the weapon.

I think it's safe to say that murder is pretty dependent on having a weapon of some kind. Could be a gun, a knife, or simply bare hands or a puddle of water. But the fact remains that it's pretty tough to kill a person with absolutely nothing at all. ( If it could be done, I'm sure one of my ex-wives would have put an end to me years ago. )



J.C.