• You are using the old High Contrast theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

True story in light of the current LEO threads

Status
Not open for further replies.
What I find amazing about this whole thread are people jumping to condem the LEOs in this incident with only a one sided thread as "proof". We don't even have the usual crappy media report.

I have been on both ends in situations such as this. As a (pre LEO days) party goer when the whole area turned to poop and as a LEO stuck in the poop working (concidently Mardi Gras).

When I was the party goer and the nasty LEOs were clearing the streets I LEFT post haste! I was smart enough to realize that this was not a place I wanted to be nor did I want to question authority when the neighborhood around me was in a quick decline into poop land. Seemed to be the smart decision at the time but maybe I should have stuck around and debated with the cops or asked for badge numbers or some other excercise of my rights.

Is it right for LEOs to beat people for no reason? Obviously not. On the other hand people need to use some common sense in life. As a LEO that has worked riot situations, I can tell that is not the time to debate the LEOs that are trying to get the situation under control without getting their melons split.
 
There's a videotape, and the police won't release it. That screams liability to me. If not, I would think the police would have shown it to the jury, the violence would have been justified, and as a result there would have been something worthy of a criminal charge and at the least they wouldn't have gotten apologies from the GJ.

Also, if true, the Austin PD creeps involved ought to read TX law. It's legal to use reasonable (up to and including lethal) force against police if they're using an unreasonable level of force. I'd imagine the odds of being in that situation are so remote it's safe for citizens to not even ponder it. But this is a discussion on police brutality, so it is relevant. Tpolice ought to consider that if one of the companions had been armed, things could have gotten very unpleasant for them. Not that the companions wouldn't then be in a world of trouble, but theoretically the law would provide a defense for any action taken against said police, if the police brutality would put a reasonable person in fear of life/limb.
 
MrAcheson: A bail bond is a type of loan or insurance (you need insurance lic to sell them in my state, how I know about them). The person that sells you a bail bond has a certain % that he has to pay the company he works for. Anything over that is his commision.

The bondsman gets paid if you show up or not, so you pay him. Now if you had enough money to pay bond yourself then yes you would get it returned. But most people don't so they use a bondsman to put up the money and he charges for that service.
 
Hi Art, my over-the-top reponse was a retort to Double Naught Spy's post that inferred Mitch and Sandy should have had a clue after their first contact with popos and cleared the area. Sorry that wasn't clear.
 
10 Reasons Cops Are Different

PERHAPS IT WEIGHS only 2 ounces overall. Large ones may run to 4 ounces. But when that badge is pinned on, there is a weight unknown to most law enforcement officers. The true weight of the badge is not overcome by muscle, not found in the gym, not measured on a scale. This weight requires a strength and conditioning for which few officers are trained. The badge is not just pinned on a chest, it is pinned on a lifestyle. The heaviness of the badge makes the law enforcement officer different from other professionals. Over the course of the last ten years, working as psychologists with police officers, we have identified ten areas which make the badge heavy.

10 Reasons Cops are Different

1) Law enforcement officers are seen as authority figures. People deal with them differently and treat them differently, even when they are not working. When a problem occurs, everyone looks to the officer to "take charge," to "solve the problem." Some say the cop is never off duty. Even when the officer is not working there is a tendency to attack problems and take charge. Sometimes taking charge is not preferable, and can cause particular strains in our world where many people like to linger with problems, never really solving anything. Recognizing the difference between a "problem solving" situation, where action is desirable, and a more passive situation, where action may alienate others, is difficult for the cop.

2) They are isolated. The wearing of a badge, uniform and gun makes a law officer separate from society. This segregation leads to many psychological effects which research shows can create negative personality traits. For example, psychological research shows the wearing of a uniform will tend to make any person de-humanize people who are without a uniform. Just wearing a badge or a gun can cause people to act more aggressively. These are changes that could happen to anyone wearing a uniform, badge and gun, thus these factors are expected to operate in some way on the police officer. Many officers suggest there is a "role," or "mask" which they put on along with their uniform. Sometimes this role leaks into their personal lives and changes the course of their relationships and leisure time.

3) Law enforcement officers work in a quasi-military, structured institution. There are mental health concerns associated with working within a "quasi-military structure" and other mental health concerns of working in an "institution." Military organizations require the sacrifice of the individual for the good of society. The "individual" is not a consideration; the "goal" of the group is paramount. In a military organization, the focus is on punishing the individual if he is not up to standards. It is a de-humanizing process to recognize that you are only valued as a part of a machine. The _institution' takes the same attitude, only a step further. In an institution, you are locked in a set process and the process is more important many times than, not only the individual, but also the goal. When an officer does a remarkable job of police work, perhaps even saves a life, he can still be reprimanded if he doesn't file the proper paperwork. The paperwork describing an action in many cases is more important to the institution than the action itself. Both the quasi-military nature of police work and the functioning within an institution combine for a mental health situation that is quite undesirable and very stressful.

4) Shift work is not normal. The "rotating shift" schedule is very taxing on an officer's life. Our bodies are adjusted on what is called "circadian schedules" which is a repetitive daily cycle. Our bodies like to have a regular eating time, sleeping time, waking time, etc. An officer doing shift work never gets a chance to stay on a schedule. This upsets his physical and mental balance in life. The changing work schedule also upsets the routine patterns that are needed in healthy marriage and family development. Strong marital and family development is based on rituals, like dinners together, "inside jokes," repeated activities, etc. The rotating shift worker has less chance to develop these rituals and his relationships suffer. This predisposes the officer's family to potential problems ranging from divorces, to children acting-out.

5) Camaraderie can be a two edged sword. The law enforcement job nurtures a sense of teamwork and unity with co-workers, what was once called "esprit de corps." The fraternity helps the officer on the job feel secure about getting the needed support in dangerous situations. It also stimulates a sense of belonging that can create an "us and them" view of the world. This makes the law enforcement "clique" harder to leave when retiring and makes officers more protective of each other. It also makes it more difficult to accept someone within the fraternal organization leaving or being killed. This adds to the stress of an officer.

6) Even the stress is different. Officers have a different kind of stress in their jobs, called "burst stress." Burst stress means there is not always a steady stressor, but at times, there is an immediate "burst" from low stress to a high stress state. In other words, officers go from complete calm, to high activity and pressure in one "burst." The normal stress situation for most of the rest of the work force consists of a stress building process that can be either reduced or adapted to before it gets "out of control." This is not the case for the officer, because "out of control" can happen in seconds (see "A Cop's Story" for a good example of burst stress). The law enforcement job is reactive, not proactive. Officers cannot usually control entrance into most situations they face, unlike most people who get warnings. They have to react, not prevent problems. It is difficult to defend against burst stress.

7) The need to be in constant emotional control. Law enforcement officers have a job that requires extreme restraint under highly emotional circumstances. They are told when they are extremely excited, they have to act calm. They are told when they are nervous, they have to be in charge. They are taught to be stoic when emotional. They are to interact with the world in a role. The emotional constraint of the role takes tremendous mental energy, much more energy than expressing true emotions. When the energy drain is very strong, it may make the officer more prone to exhaustion outside of work, such as not wanting to participate in social or family life. This energy drain can also create a sense of job and social burnout.

8) No gray areas. The law enforcement officer works in a fact-based world with everything compared to written law. Right and wrong is determined by a standard. They have a set way of going about gathering the proper evidence for the law and can justify their actions because they represent the "good and right side." In the real world, clear rights and wrongs are not as likely to occur. The newspapers are an opinion-based system, the court system is an opinion-based system and, needless to say, relationship decisions and proper parenting techniques are opinion-based systems. Adjusting from right and wrong, black-and-white systems, to opinion-based systems is very difficult and requires a complete change in mental attitude.

9) The "at work" world of the officer is very negative. He sees the bad part of society - the criminal, the abuser of the rules. This may skew the officer's opinions on the character of the average human being. It creates a cynicism, a critical view of the world. It is hard to adjust to trusting a fellow human being when so much of the day is spent with people who are not trustworthy. It is hard to believe in positive intentions of people, when the day is spent with people who are intending to hurt each other. This lack of trust can show up in the way the officer deals with people on a personal level, with neighbors, with a spouse. It can even show up in the way children are raised, as police parents may tend to be stricter in discipline and more careful with privilege.

10) Even the children are effected. The children of law enforcement officers have a more difficult adjustment. As a young child, the police officer parent is seen as holding a prestigious, desirable position. The young child and his friends look up to the police officer as a minor celebrity, a person of great respect. As a teen-ager, their parent is part of the authority of society. Since teens rebel against authority anyway, this can cause a double rebellion against the parent both in their role as caretaker and as a symbol of the authority of society. Frequently, the officer's child is either overly compliant because of the rules imposed, thus causing depressive problems or personality restriction, or the teen becomes overly rebellious of the rule-oriented parent - the best child or the worst.
------------------------------------------

As you can see, there is more to being a police officer than the training received in an academy or on the job. The work has many effects that need to be overcome so as not to effect their personal and family life. This website is designed to help you understand and overcome the effects of these other parts of the job. It is important for an officer to realize that sometimes that shield on your chest or in your pocket can be "A Heavy Badge!"
http://www.heavybadge.com
 
"One side", mrat? Seems to me the grand jury got to see two sides, and they made a pretty definite decision.

You want both sides? Fine. Let's see APD have the courage to tell their side to a jury (civil and criminal). If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.
 
Sorta drifting away from this particular thread, it seems to me that as with many other societal problems, the real question is whether there is a real increase in police misbehavior or an increase in publicity about it.

For instance, I--and many other Old Farts--can remember the feeling of being a four-wheeled target for driving "one of them funny furrin cars" like a Healey or VW or Porsche, back in the 1950s. Talk to a few Old Hippies from the 1960s--or some black folks from the Old South.

I have watched a nationwide trend in Mr. and/or Miz Average Person for a lesser degree of courtesy and politeness in public, these last forty-some years. An arrogance in attitude. Eager argumentativeness. Resentment or resistance to police authority, even when the request is quite mild.

So I dunno...

There are two jobs that there is no way on God's Green Earth you could get me into, were I some forty years younger: Teaching school, and LEO. I gotta lot of respect for those who do, and who are good at it.

Art
 
quote from mrat:
"What I find amazing about this whole thread are people jumping to condem the LEOs in this incident with only a one sided thread as "proof". We don't even have the usual crappy media report"


As an older citizen, I have seen a decline in respect for police in general. And! I must say most of it is earned. There is in fact a attitude among police of; us and them! Civilians are not highly regarded by police and are often beaten by police. I personally have seen several incidents of police beating on citizens and I did not think it was justified, therefore I don't respect police as much as I used to.

I am friends with a county sheriff, who is also a California Board Certified Phychologist, he and I have discussed the issue of police beating on folks to great lengths. His opinion, which I value is that police are often under cosiderable stress, many officers having seen on a daily basis the worst of humanity come to see nearly all citizens in the same way. Police departments have a responsibility to the public and to their rank and file officers to provide any and all tools necessary to help officers deal with on the job stress and attitudes. Police work is difficult, it is a fact officers in many large departments manifest stress in ways a trained person can recognize and offer assistance with. Classic manifistation of stress among police are; risky behavior, gambling to excess, domestic violence, chronic depression, post traumatic stress syndrome, and several other items of behavior that I wont go into here.

By chance, I also know an officer and his family, I should say ex-officer. He is in prison, because he stole from people while answering calls for assistance. He would pick up little things and would come back for more when no one was home. This man was so stressed by the work he led a bizarre double life, gambled to fight depression and stole to keep gambling. Funny thing on the response from his department when he was caught. The entire department went into denial! Everyone knew he had problems, I think some knew a lot more. His department fed him to the wolves, the officers, their famlies shunned the arrested officers family, the same with their police officers association. Denial! He will be out in about eifhteen months, I hope he can do something productive with his life. I know no one on his former police department or their families will help him, but if I can help him in some way, I will!

I agree with Art.


Giant
 
I think the interesting thing is what would have happened had there been no tape. Everybody here is talking about proof. Where was that burdon when this guy was on trial? Seems to me that inocent until proved guilty was taking a vacation until that tape showed up. But, credit is due to the police ADMINISTRATION for furnishing it. Every police officer that witnessed the incident (including the one behind the camera) shares the responsibility for covering it up and SHOULD be held as accountable as whoever instituted the beating.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top