Tuning a 1911? (Springfield GI)

[ugaarguy]

My SA GI has really grown on me, right down to the parked finish. I know the forged frame & slide are top notch and that many smiths, including Yost, use them as a base for custom guns.

I also know that Springfield, like many other 1911 makers, uses a good bit of MIM internals. Does anyone know which internals are MIM, which aren't, and which ones should be replaced for ultimate reliability. Of the parts that should be replaced, which are user replacable and which are best left to a professional gunsmith.

I've gotten comfortable with the 5" length and no longer feel that the 3/4" length savings of a commander size gun is necessary. At this point other than internal reliability upgrades all I want is a beavertail safety to stop "safety bite" with a thumbs high grip. I know that getting a smith to install the thumb safety is the best bet, and I also know that the frame will have to be ground to fit the safety. Can the parkerizing be touched up, or will the whole pistol need to be refinished?

Finally should the SA two piece bbl be replaced for reliability? I'm plenty happy with it's current "combat" accuracy; I'm looking for reliabilty, not a match gun.

For those who know the ins and outs and can help me with the answers (Fuff, Tuner ) many thanks in advance.

 

[Azrael256]

The MIM parts include the sear, grip safety, thumb safety, hammer (on newer models), and for some reason I'm thinking the MSH. The slide stop is cast, and I believe the disconnector is, too.

If you want to replace parts that will require minimal fitting, the MSH and slide stop are probably the place to start. You can replace the other parts yourself, but it requires, at minimum, a good bit of reading on how the parts work and some investment in proper tools. Most of it will *probably* drop in, but I wouldn't risk it when it comes to the trigger group. If you don't know how to do it, find a gunsmith. A good gunsmith. There are endless stories out there that include the words "gunsmith," "trigger job," and "my gun went full-auto." Choose very carefully.

 

[Canuck-IL]

I don't see the MSH being a reliability issue - change it if you want to dump the ILS. I'd suggest the extractor, slide stop and maybe the thumb safety. Then get an EGW angle bored bushing after you measure your barrel and slide (they have stock issue for Springfields but it doesn't hurt to check). Cheapest accuracy upgrade you can make. Nothing wrong with the barrel if you're happy with its accuracy now - and the bushing will guaranteed improve that.

Trigger length is a personal preference as is a beavertail. If you do change it, you'll need a Commander style hammer or else bob the spur hammer that's on there. If you change the trigger, may as well have a 'smith do the trigger group which was discussed above.
/Bryan

 

[Geno]

See 1911tuner's recent post

See 1911tuner's recent post about this exact topic (about 1 week about). Do an advanced search for the word "MIM" psoted by "1911Tuner" within the past 2 weeks.

His insights therein were very interesting reading! In fact, there have been many, many posts here about MIM parts. Keep expanding the search and you'll find some excellent data.

Doc2005

 

[ugaarguy]

Doc2005, I did some searching. Apparently the extractor is the most important thing to replace. After that it looks like the sear, disconnecter, hammer, and hammer strut are the next highest priorities. I see that Tuner feels MIM is fine on thumb and grip safeties, but Fuff feels that MIM is not good on thumb safeties. Once again, I know I won't be fitting a grip safety myself, and I know at least that portion of the frame will need to be refinished. Again is a touch up of the parkerizing ok, or is a full reparkerizing recommended? I'm pretty sure it would be best to have the smith replace the extractor while its there for the thumb safety. I would like to learn how to tune an extractor, but other than the experience I lack (gotta start somewhere) I have no idea how hard it is to do. I've seen that several companies offer pre matched sear and hammer packages. Does this cover the most difficult part of fitting these pieces? Next, disconnectors, what's the verdict on fitting them? Tuner, I saw where you recommended replacing the SA two peice bbl. Is this recommended for accuracy or is it a recommended reliability upgrade?

Fitting parts myself is not a cost issue, but rather a desire to learn. Old Fuff and others showed me that I'm not ready to build a 1911 from the ground up (thankfully they stopped me before I ordered anything), but I'd still like to know how to replace small parts myself; whether it be from an insurance against breakage standpoint as Tuner suggest doing, or if they need replacement due to failure. The 1911 platform has really grown on me over the short time I've owned my Springer. The crisp, short, trigger break & quick short reset are the epitome of shooting an auto loader to me. Combine that with great ergonomics that fit me better than any pistol I've handled (the Hi-Power is close) and I'm hooked on the 1911 platform. I'm just trying to build my knowledge and experience with it now, and narrow down the high failure areas. Luckily THR has some helpful folks with plenty of 1911 experience who have been kind enough to share their knowledge. Again thanks in advance for the advice folks.

 

[Old Fuff]

... but Fuff feels that MIM is not good on thumb safeties.

That's because the safety lock is a critical part. If the lug that blocks the sear should break or chip you could have an unexpected discharge.

Now if these parts went through the kind of quality control inspections that aircraft parts do I'd be less worried. But it will be a cold day in a warm place when gun companies are willing to pay the cost associated with this kind of inspection process. The switch to MIM parts came about as a cost-savings plan. Within the 1911 clone makers the idea is to buy from the lowest bidder, and the gun-builders themselves depend on the vendor's inspection - which usually isn't anything more then to look for obvious visual defects, if even that. The next, and last, chance of detecting something that's wrong is when the final assembler is puting the gun together. Then the gun goes out the door. If the part(s) should fail the manufacturer will usually replace it under warrantee with an exact same kind of part.

Now all of this doesn't bother me if we're dealing with big-boy toys. But some if not all of these companies represent their product to be weapons - look at the names they give them.

Now a weapon is something a buyer may literally stake their life on, and if that's the case do you really want to carry something that was assembled out of parts bought from a vendor that submitted the lowest bid?

I don't know about you, but my neck is worth more then that.

 

[ugaarguy]

Old Fuff,
I just pulled the thumb safety and looked at the lug on it. I can see with edges and curves on it how a cheap part could easily fail . Right now my 1911 is a range toy since I have other weapons for serious use. I'm beginning to get a good idea of what I need to do and/or have done to transition this 1911 from range toy to weapon.

 

[oops!]

Anyone have any real world data on the failure of these MIM parts?
I have around 1,600 rounds thru my Springer GI. I recently tore it down for a good cleaning and inspection. To my eye the wear patterns seem consistent with what I have seen on all the 1911's I've owned over the years.

 

[Old Fuff]

Anyone have any real world data on the failure of these MIM parts?

Sure... just go back and read past threads in this forum alone. You can find them using the search feature.

Tuner just got done with one where someone's hammer hooks broke off...

In another thread he states he's hesitent to recommend "bosting" the hammer anymore after he wiped out the hooks on a hammer.

Some time back hammer struts in Springers were breaking, leaving the pistol disabled.

Springer's MIM extractors will work for a time, but give out eventually because they can't be spring tempered.

Kimber slide stops were known to break.

I cound go on and on....

Are these failurers common? With the exception of extractor problems, apparently not. But in my book that isn't the issue. If we are talking about guns strictly used to plink & play I couldn't care less. If we are discussing something that's supposed to be a weapon that's another matter. In that case dependability and reliability are critical, and a visual inspection won't necessarily reveal an internal flaw.

If others are willing to stake their life on parts that don't meet original standards, and were substituted to reduce the manufactures' cost so they're bought on a low-bid basis that's their business. All these various threads on MIM parts in the 1911 platform have done is alert people to the fact that there is or could be a problem.

In all fairness, MIM parts can and do work in some applications, and they work fine in other guns where the parts were designed to be made by this process in the first place.