Turns Out Obama Isn't Going To Taking Your Guns After All
- Thread starter Mr. Whimsy
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Tim the student
Member
By either side.
We all have our own favorite Kool-Aid from which we drink, that much is clearly evident in this thread. Me, I like Grape.
-10 points
The Sith... really? I mean really?
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He would probably like to place greater restrictions on gun ownership, but it would be politically disastrous for him to do so. As long as the economy is messed up, focusing his attention anywhere else would make him look like an absolute jackhole to everyone.
jimmyraythomason
Member
we are in trouble
Vonderek
Member
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Mr. Whimsy,
We are one year into a possible 8-year foray with this administration. When Pres. Obama/Eric Holder/Nancy Pelosi/et al feel that the time is politically expedient for a resumption of gun control then you will see it. For now, especially with midterms looming, it is political suicide to attempt.
Please make the effort to research their past records on anti-second amendment voting, statements, actions, etc. before you cast aspersions on the rest of us. It is silly in the extreme to equate vigilance with mindless following as you have done with your overused "Kool Ade" cliche.
We are one year into a possible 8-year foray with this administration. When Pres. Obama/Eric Holder/Nancy Pelosi/et al feel that the time is politically expedient for a resumption of gun control then you will see it. For now, especially with midterms looming, it is political suicide to attempt.
Please make the effort to research their past records on anti-second amendment voting, statements, actions, etc. before you cast aspersions on the rest of us. It is silly in the extreme to equate vigilance with mindless following as you have done with your overused "Kool Ade" cliche.
From my reading, the Democrats took so much punishment at the polls way back when that they finally learned to leave gun control alone. Support the NRA and remain vigilant, yes. Run around here screaming about Obama seizing our guns? Not very bright.
Carl N. Brown
Member
In the 1950's the Eisenhower Commission recommended banning handguns (at least one of the commission, Hans Toch, has since changed his position). In the 1960s, gun control advocates like Carl Bakal and Robert Sherrill saw the NRA as the the only obstacle to that handgun-free America (well, a legal handgun-free America).
For fifty years I have been told "No body wants to take your guns" and I started accumulating quotes from all those "nobodies" who were advocating banning guns. I have posted it elswhere, and won't re-post it here. But if our enemies are to be believed, it is the NRA that has prevented their attainment of a (legal) gun-free utopia. Like their rhetorical brethern and sistern gave us a Demon Rum-free, Reefer Madness-free, and Lady Chatterley-free utopia. (I wonder if the crusaders hold stock in bootleggers of liquor, weed and smut.) The problem with self-righteous crusaders and their voodoo criminology (ban a symbol) is they are too ideologically and emotional committed to their cause to give up. Maybe take time to lull the frogs into slumber in a nice sauce pan of tepid water before turning the heat up, may be, but give up?
For fifty years I have been told "No body wants to take your guns" and I started accumulating quotes from all those "nobodies" who were advocating banning guns. I have posted it elswhere, and won't re-post it here. But if our enemies are to be believed, it is the NRA that has prevented their attainment of a (legal) gun-free utopia. Like their rhetorical brethern and sistern gave us a Demon Rum-free, Reefer Madness-free, and Lady Chatterley-free utopia. (I wonder if the crusaders hold stock in bootleggers of liquor, weed and smut.) The problem with self-righteous crusaders and their voodoo criminology (ban a symbol) is they are too ideologically and emotional committed to their cause to give up. Maybe take time to lull the frogs into slumber in a nice sauce pan of tepid water before turning the heat up, may be, but give up?
Nico Testosteros
Member
On the basis of what do you make that point?
I agree there's an anti-war crowd that wants out of Afghanistan but I wouldn't say liberals are abandoning him because of the drone attacks. I think that's simply not true.
And don't y'all cling to guns and religion?
Isn't that what 90% of the right wing chain emails are that designed to stir up your fears? It certainly seems that way, based on the crap my inlaws forward.
yup racist... you got it bud... I will let a white guy take my guns, but no way will a black man ever get em... your ignorance is shown in your inability to see past something so shallow as race... I don't give a damn what color the man's skin is. He is making terrible decisions as our president, pushing ridiculous ideals on the uneducated that will further bankrupt out country (hard as that is to do,) and shows no signs of slowing down with any of that. Will he make attempts to increase gun control measures and make steps toward an all out ban? Well, if he can get the country to pass an 800 billion dollar bill to toss to the highest portions of big business with the hopes of it somehow filtering down and talk the country into going to a socialist health care system while all evidence shows that such things fail miserably, then you bet your ass he (and his affiliates) will tighten up on the nations guns as well if given the opportunity. sorry to get political, but ignorantly throwing out the race card is a bs argument that only someone with nothing else to say comes up with every time. IMO.. racism got him the damn job.
a bunch of people doing what he says because he is black or they are afraid to be called racist if they don't go along with it... someone stands up and calls him a liar it cannot be because he is, it must be because he is a black man.
a bunch of people doing what he says because he is black or they are afraid to be called racist if they don't go along with it... someone stands up and calls him a liar it cannot be because he is, it must be because he is a black man.
Deanimator
Member
AHSA can always be counted upon to make their quarterly appearance to try to hoodwink the ignorant and gullible.
Haven't you noticed by now that NOBODY believes your fairy tales about "reasonable gun control" and how Obama is "pro-gun"?
You're like the neo-Nazis who regularly hit usenet talk.politics.guns. You get a boot in the crotch and stagger away, only to return again. Apparently you enjoy it. Oh well, I guess it's cheaper than hiring some woman (or man) in a leather bustier to do the kicking...
Haven't you noticed by now that NOBODY believes your fairy tales about "reasonable gun control" and how Obama is "pro-gun"?
You're like the neo-Nazis who regularly hit usenet talk.politics.guns. You get a boot in the crotch and stagger away, only to return again. Apparently you enjoy it. Oh well, I guess it's cheaper than hiring some woman (or man) in a leather bustier to do the kicking...
Obama voted against the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, because he wanted gun manufacturers and sellers to be sued out of business. Obama supports an "assault weapons ban" so that law-abiding citizens will be prohibited from buying certain types of firearms that hunters don't "need" to own. Obama selected an Supreme Court Justice who believes in a "collective right" theory, and who doesn't believe that the Second Amendment confers an individual right to citizens to keep and bear arms, or (at the very least) that Washington DC should be able to prohibit gun owners from possessing handguns, even for purposes of self-protection inside thier own homes. Obama is certainly an anti-gun Democrat.
He has not yet proposed additional anti-gun legislation because he's been too busy not getting horrible health care legislation that Americans hate crammed through Congress (special deals for special people & special groups). And escalating the war in Afganistan. And borrowing trillions of dollars from the Chinese that our children will be unable to repay.
But he sure does give a good speech, doesn't he?
He has not yet proposed additional anti-gun legislation because he's been too busy not getting horrible health care legislation that Americans hate crammed through Congress (special deals for special people & special groups). And escalating the war in Afganistan. And borrowing trillions of dollars from the Chinese that our children will be unable to repay.
But he sure does give a good speech, doesn't he?
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
He is also on record as stating that the Washington D.C. handgun ban and the Chicago handgun ban are perfectly in keeping with his vision of "an individual right."
"The campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he "believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional."
--- http://www.sportsmenforobama.org/content/view/34/ (Citing James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, "Court To Hear Gun Case," Chicago Tribune, 11/20/07)."
Source for Obama Anti-Second Amendment positions
All Democrats may not be anti-RKBA; but Obama damn sure is - and Democrats don't do themselves any favors by pretending otherwise. It reeks of dishonesty and it isn't going to win you any votes. You'd be far better off simply acknowledging that your leader is anti-gun and likely to remain so; but is enough of a political pragmatist that he realizes he has more important issues to attend to first (like stopping his party from being slaughtered like sheep in the upcoming midterm elections).
Madcap_Magician
Member
The OP is correct. The President is not out to get our guns. He's too busy with other stuff right now, but should he get the chance, his record indicates he'd take it.
There should be a Godwin's Law of racism. The first person to scream "Racism!" in an argument that has nothing to do with actual racism automatically loses.
There should be a Godwin's Law of racism. The first person to scream "Racism!" in an argument that has nothing to do with actual racism automatically loses.
Yup. It's like they are my rights, not to be infringed on or something to that effect...
devildog32713
Member
+1 up that, false sense of security will eat us up.
devildog32713
Member
He's 13% black, that is the only thing that got him elected, I am NOT against black people, I'm against people like Obama, who have lied and changed their minds when some minority group cries foul. That's who I am against.
jimmyraythomason
Member
" "My good friends this is the second time in our history that there has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honor. I believe it is peace in our time."
Neville Chamberlain. It wasn't true then either. We can make no peace with the gungrabbers.
Neville Chamberlain. It wasn't true then either. We can make no peace with the gungrabbers.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Whimsy said:
So here's the thing. You have now engaged in intellectual dishonesty, making the rest of your post useless.
Obama dit NOT sign a National Park carry law, not by any stretch of the imagination. And, for you to say he did means you either don't really know what you are talking about or you are willing to be dishonest to try to make your point.
Obama signed a Credit Card reform law that his party desperately wanted. At the last minute a rider was placed into this bill (by a Republican) that would allow for firearms in a National Park IF STATE LAW WOULD ALLOW IT.
This is not anywhere close to the same thing as making carry in National Parks legal.
If that were the case there would be no need for stipulations about state law, nor would it be necessary to attach it hidden inside of a credit card reform law.
Obama signed this because he needed the credit card reforms and this NP bit was a necessary evil.
If you have to put spin in the opening post, what does that say about the merits of your argument?
How about some actual facts then, shall we? Here is what the White House had to say about the National Park portion of this:
Are you going to continue to put the spin in this as a "pro gun" move? Really?
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BHP FAN
Member
Those who ignore history's lessons are doomed to repeat them...
So on the one side we have Obama a board member of the Joyce Foundation one of the primary funders of gun control organzations and think tanks for developing gun control legislation and anti-second amendment scholarship, his actual voting record as a legislator in the Illinois state house (voting for a ban on almost all semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, support of chicago handgun ban, voting against a law that prevented people who defended themselves with a handgun in their home from being prosecuted under home rule gun bans, etc...) and in the US Senate, his consistent statements during his campaign for president and on his website that indicated he supports an AW ban, and a national ban on concealed carry, and his opposition to Heller as he signed on a brief denying the 2nd was an individual right, and his appointments as president of an anti-2nd amendment supreme court justice who has not supported the 2nd as an individual right, and his attorney general Holder who has a long history of support for gun control and supports an AW ban.
On the other we have passage of a rider on first a credit card reform bill then a massive spending bill of carry in national parks and renewal of tihart amendment - attached not at his request or with his support - which he signed because on balance he wanted his reform and spending bills and didn't have the support to strip them and then repass the spending bills. And we have the Brady campaign upset that he hasn't passed gun control legislation in the face of public opposition and the opposition of a significant number of his own party that combined with house republicans would make any proposed legislation for new gun control a dead letter.
And based on these facts the rational implication is that Obama is suddenly secretly opposed to gun control and the gun owners best friend? And that it is irrational to suppose that the actual truth is that Obama is just as pro-gun control as ever but that he doesn't have the ability to get any passed right now as he doesn't have the support in the house and senate to do it and that the Democrats haven't generally changed their pro-gun control stance so much as they are afraid to take on gun control right now as it would derail their attempts to get healthcare passed and their green agenda - both of which are already in trouble. And that given the chance later in this term or if re-elected in a second term - when Obama is not concerned with getting re-elected or has nothing to lose politically that he will not try and do what he has stated and never refuted, which is to pass an AW ban and an national CCW ban. Also there are no indications that he will not continue to appoint justices to the USSC that are hostile to the second amendment and gun ownership.
And if someone does not agree with Obama they are automatically a racist. I guess I must be a racist - cause I've voted for African Americans for president before Obama even ran and I helped elect an African American to the US senate (which I later regretted) because of her policies. But the racism charge is nothing new - I'm sure that anyone here or elsewhere that has voiced opposition to Obama has been accused of racism - it seems to be the standard charge - especially when people don't want to debate facts or specific issues.
Ya know, I understand if you didn't like Bush or don't like the republicans - I'm not a fan either - (I liked Bushes appointments to the USSC but little else) - but don't let partisanship blind you to the truth that Obama is pro-gun control and that his appointments to the USSC will hurt us down the road and that given the chance he will support gun control legislation.
Yes, there are pro-gun control republicans and pro-gun rights Democrats (I wish there were more) - but the sad truth is that the political leadership in the gun control movement is almost uniformly Democrats - except for Boomberg in NY City. That doesn't mean I haven't and won't support Democrats - heck the evil Kool-Aid manufacturing NRA endorses Democrats too - just not pro-gun control Democrats.
If you support Obama and other gun control politicians because you agree with them on other issues - fine - but don't let that blind you or lead you to make rationalizations about their stance on guns and gun rights. If health care or global warming or the war, etc... are more important issues to you than your RKBA so be it - but don't try to sell me that Obama isn't for gun control or tell me that if I don't support him then I'm a racist.
On the other we have passage of a rider on first a credit card reform bill then a massive spending bill of carry in national parks and renewal of tihart amendment - attached not at his request or with his support - which he signed because on balance he wanted his reform and spending bills and didn't have the support to strip them and then repass the spending bills. And we have the Brady campaign upset that he hasn't passed gun control legislation in the face of public opposition and the opposition of a significant number of his own party that combined with house republicans would make any proposed legislation for new gun control a dead letter.
And based on these facts the rational implication is that Obama is suddenly secretly opposed to gun control and the gun owners best friend? And that it is irrational to suppose that the actual truth is that Obama is just as pro-gun control as ever but that he doesn't have the ability to get any passed right now as he doesn't have the support in the house and senate to do it and that the Democrats haven't generally changed their pro-gun control stance so much as they are afraid to take on gun control right now as it would derail their attempts to get healthcare passed and their green agenda - both of which are already in trouble. And that given the chance later in this term or if re-elected in a second term - when Obama is not concerned with getting re-elected or has nothing to lose politically that he will not try and do what he has stated and never refuted, which is to pass an AW ban and an national CCW ban. Also there are no indications that he will not continue to appoint justices to the USSC that are hostile to the second amendment and gun ownership.
And if someone does not agree with Obama they are automatically a racist. I guess I must be a racist - cause I've voted for African Americans for president before Obama even ran and I helped elect an African American to the US senate (which I later regretted) because of her policies. But the racism charge is nothing new - I'm sure that anyone here or elsewhere that has voiced opposition to Obama has been accused of racism - it seems to be the standard charge - especially when people don't want to debate facts or specific issues.
Ya know, I understand if you didn't like Bush or don't like the republicans - I'm not a fan either - (I liked Bushes appointments to the USSC but little else) - but don't let partisanship blind you to the truth that Obama is pro-gun control and that his appointments to the USSC will hurt us down the road and that given the chance he will support gun control legislation.
Yes, there are pro-gun control republicans and pro-gun rights Democrats (I wish there were more) - but the sad truth is that the political leadership in the gun control movement is almost uniformly Democrats - except for Boomberg in NY City. That doesn't mean I haven't and won't support Democrats - heck the evil Kool-Aid manufacturing NRA endorses Democrats too - just not pro-gun control Democrats.
If you support Obama and other gun control politicians because you agree with them on other issues - fine - but don't let that blind you or lead you to make rationalizations about their stance on guns and gun rights. If health care or global warming or the war, etc... are more important issues to you than your RKBA so be it - but don't try to sell me that Obama isn't for gun control or tell me that if I don't support him then I'm a racist.
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ronto
Member
Barry is a proven liar, a dishonorable man that is an insult to his office and our great Country. He is capable of things much worse than TRYING to take your guns.
Tommygunn
Member
He has what he considers more important things to do now. He may or may not get to gun control this year, next year or the year after ... and if he gets a second term then there's that.
I agree with posters who say to look at his record to see what he'll do. He is antigun. But he has a lot on his plate (for better & worse ... ) and no one can say when he will get around to guns.
I agree with posters who say to look at his record to see what he'll do. He is antigun. But he has a lot on his plate (for better & worse ... ) and no one can say when he will get around to guns.
Carl N. Brown
Member
To Nico et al.
liberals are abandoning him because he is sending drones into Pakistan
was from HoosierQ Post #20 (my Post #25 was my view of HoosierQ's observation).
I hate being told I don't think or write for myself. I don't read too many forwarded right wing, left wing, breast, thigh or leg chain e-mails. I think the people opposed to those positions read them more than I would care to do.
My point is: if Obama has changed his position, fine; but don't tell me it was never his position and expect me to swallow THAT Kool Aid.
liberals are abandoning him because he is sending drones into Pakistan
was from HoosierQ Post #20 (my Post #25 was my view of HoosierQ's observation).
I hate being told I don't think or write for myself. I don't read too many forwarded right wing, left wing, breast, thigh or leg chain e-mails. I think the people opposed to those positions read them more than I would care to do.
My point is: if Obama has changed his position, fine; but don't tell me it was never his position and expect me to swallow THAT Kool Aid.
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