Two new revolvers and two new problems.

[NorthBorder]

1. New/unfired Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt. I took it to the range today for its first outing. I was shooting my reloads (H110 under a 250 grain cast). With those black plastic Ruger grips that was the most unenjoyable gun I have ever fired, but that wasn't the problem. Three cases had difficulty with extraction. Two cases I actually had to pound them out with a marker pen and a mallet. I don't know if this is a problem with oversize or undersize chambers. What do you think, and what can I do to remedy it.

2. New/unfired Charter Arms Bulldog XL in 45 Colt. I put 5 rounds into the chambers but cylinder would not turn in four of the cylinders. I manually rotated the cylinder to each chamber and only one would rotate the cylinder when I pulled the trigger in double action. At home I played around with it with empty brass. I actually had to push the cylinder forward and at the same time pull the trigger in double action to get the cylinder to rotate, begrudgingly I might add. I even did this with some unfired brass. Interestingly, this problem may have remedied itself by repeated dry firing with brass in the cylinder. They are starting to smooth themselves out.
Whew! This is my firs Charter Arms and I wanted to believe in it.

So, now can you help me remedy my Blackhawk?
Thanks in advance.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

1. New/unfired Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt. I took it to the range today for its first outing. I was shooting my reloads (H110 under a 250 grain cast). With those black plastic Ruger grips that was the most unenjoyable gun I have ever fired, but that wasn't the problem. Three cases had difficulty with extraction. Two cases I actually had to pound them out with a marker pen and a mallet. I don't know if this is a problem with oversize or undersize chambers. What do you think, and what can I do to remedy it.

2. New/unfired Charter Arms Bulldog XL in 45 Colt. I put 5 rounds into the chambers but cylinder would not turn in four of the cylinders. I manually rotated the cylinder to each chamber and only one would rotate the cylinder when I pulled the trigger in double action. At home I played around with it with empty brass. I actually had to push the cylinder forward and at the same time pull the trigger in double action to get the cylinder to rotate, begrudgingly I might add. I even did this with some unfired brass. Interestingly, this problem may have remedied itself by repeated dry firing with brass in the cylinder. They are starting to smooth themselves out.
Whew! This is my firs Charter Arms and I wanted to believe in it.

So, now can you help me remedy my Blackhawk?
Thanks in advance.

Q: Did you start low and work up or jump straight to a “Ruger-only” max load?
Q: Is your Blackhawk a large frame (.44 frame) or a medium frame (Vaquero)?
Not all .45Colt Rugers are made for “Ruger only” .45Colt loads.

 

[ravenn]

NB,
What charge of H-110 are you using?
I would find a competent gunsmith to pin gauge the cylinder holes and go from there.
I sent a Bisley 45 back to them for excessive leading after 12 rounds.
It was rebarreled and sent back in record time

 

[MEHavey]

Ditto above:
- What bullet?
- What powder weight ?
- What OAL ?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

It sounds like your first problem is loading too hot -- drop back a couple of grains and see if things get better.

Your second problem is either your rounds are loaded too long (and the bullet is dragging) or your primers are not seated properly and are dragging.

 

[UncleEd]

Did your .45 reloads easily go into the Blackhawk chambers?

Was a lot of "wiggle room" detected in some chambers; that is
did the cartridges seem to clink about a little.

What powder load?

Have any factory ammo? Try that as well and see if the offending
chambers again make extraction difficult.

 

[NorthBorder]

Missouri bullet 250 gr
26.0 gr H110 which is in the middle. There is very little variance from starting to max load w, H110
OAL is 1.60".
The gun is a NM Blackhawk. It can handle H110. I've used this load in another NM Blackhawk with no problems.
I tried the old test of pushing a bullet thru each chamber and it should go thru with some resistance. The bullet wouldn't go thru unless, maybe, I used a hammer.
I tried this with a hard cast and a Hornady XTP.
I guess I should put some loads together using 8.0 gr Unique and see what result I get. That's my goto round for my Win '73 and will be for my Charter Arms. I just couldn't find any of those rounds in my stash.

 

[UncleEd]

I believe Unique is among the preferred powders.

 

[MEHavey]

Missouri bullet 250 gr
26.0 gr H110

QL thinks that's a 26-27,000psi load. That's slightly over the top for a New Model
Blackhawk (25,000 CUP and PSI), and the gun's trying to tell you that.

It's definitely over the top for (what would be my) toggle-link `73 Winchester/45 Colt

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

A photo or two of the fired brass from the Blackhawk might help, side and primer views.

If you can wiggle the cylinder forth-and-back, that's known as endshake. If it is bad enough, the hand may not achieve proper contact with the working bits at rear of the cylinder. A short video of exactly what is occurring would help nail down the exact problem.

 

[NorthBorder]

Well, today I loaded up about 12 rds using 10.7gr HS-6 for the Ruger and 10 rds using 9.8 gr HS-6 for the Charter Arms, using a 250 g SWC w/ OAL 1.60". And wouldn't you know it the Ruger had no problems ejecting the spent shells. So, maybe I just need to dial back the load from near max. I have a ton of Accurate 4100 so I think I will just start experimenting with that.

The Charter is a real conundrum. After seemingly getting the cylinder to rotate last evening with just brass I loaded about 15 rounds using 9.8 gr HS-6. The first 5 rounds rotated thru but I could feel some drag. The next rounds not so much. In fact some cases would not rotate into position and on double action I would get some light primer strikes, but never on single action. The situation only worsened the more I shot it where eventually it would rotate with difficulty and on some chambers the revolver would bind up. So I came home and put the empty brass in the chambers and they didn't want to rotate. I cleaned the gun, made sure there was not any unburned powder under the star or on the brass, and I cleaned up the brass to rid it of any powder or residue. It still binds up. Sometimes the cylinder will rotate but I can feel it dragging. Sometimes the cylinder just gets stuck.
One more thing, all the brass is Winchester.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Hmm. In post #7, you mention the load is in the middle. In post #11, you mention it's near max. H-110 isn't really a prefered powder in .45 Colt with cast bullets. Perhaps the HS-6 and for sure Unique will work way better in your BH. There are far better powders to use for a .45 Colt than H-110.

 

[UncleEd]

Besides what seems like a heavy load for the .45 Colt, under what
conditions are you shooting? As temperatures go up outdoors, so
do pressures in cartridges.

Used to work at a rifle range where each summer one or two shooters
would blow up their bolt action rifles. They loaded in the winter, tested
the loads and found them a bit "weak." So they loaded even hotter.
Then in the summer, kaboom.

 

[NorthBorder]

I used the Hodgdon load data on line. It doesn't differentiate bullet type, just weight. Since then I got a Hodgdon magazine type reloader manual and it does differentiate between lead and jacketed bullets and H110 isn't indicated for lead bullets. So I may have a few bullet to disassemble. As far as stating I was middle or near max in my load since there is only .8grain separating minimum from max load (25.7 grains to 26.5 grains).
8
Yea, it was hot out there too, mid 90s.

 

[dbmjr1]

My Blackhawk loves 2400 for making steel sing. Unique works well too.

I've been wanting a Charter Arms XL, so I'm going to watch this thread to see if you get the issues resolved.

That revolver doesn't have a side plate to take off.

Have you contacted Charter Arms ?

 

[NorthBorder]

That's my next step I think.

 

[dbmjr1]

That's my next step I think.

They should cover postage. Ask for a mailing label. Tell them you don't want to ship UPS due to the strike.

 

[dickydalton]

My Blackhawk loves 2400 for making steel sing. Unique works well too.

I've been wanting a Charter Arms XL, so I'm going to watch this thread to see if you get the issues resolved.

That revolver doesn't have a side plate to take off.

Have you contacted Charter Arms ?

2400 has been my most used powder since 1968 and Unique 2nd.

 

[dbmjr1]

2400 has been my most used powder since 1968 and Unique 2nd.

I've still got two cans of Hercules Unique aka combustible dirt. Great stuff.

 

[MEHavey]

I cleaned up the brass to rid it of any powder or residue. It still binds up. ...can feel it dragging. Sometimes the cylinder just gets stuck

Size/De-prime the brass before that kind of testing.
(unless the cylinder bound up while shooting)

ALSO: Consider TiteGroup.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6924226&postcount=36

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I used the Hodgdon load data on line. It doesn't differentiate bullet type, just weight. Since then I got a Hodgdon magazine type reloader manual and it does differentiate between lead and jacketed bullets and H110 isn't indicated for lead bullets. So I may have a few bullet to disassemble. As far as stating I was middle or near max in my load since there is only .8grain separating minimum from max load (25.7 grains to 26.5 grains).
8
Yea, it was hot out there too, mid 90s.

That was a serious mistake. That data is for the Hornady XTP bullet, not a Cast bullet. Cast bullets us less powder to achieve similar velocities and pressures. When I first read your data post I was going to reply but this was a better post to do so.

Your charge of 26.0gr H110 is an overload with a 250gr cast bullet. I'm glad to see your HS-6 load delivered better results for your other revolver. Another potential problem I'm seeing is, you seem to jump right to the Max charge in the data. The data is safe in the gun they used to test but that doesn't guarantee it will be safe in your gun. A good rule and practice is, drop back 5% from the max charge and work up to the max looking for the most accurate load. Faster isn't always better...

It's also my opinion H110 isn't a good choice with cast bullets. The time tested 2400 is a better choice IMO no matter how much I like W296/H110.

 

[eddiememphis]

You got lucky on the Blackhawk. It is a stout gun than can withstand over pressure rounds. A scary lesson to learn but I bet you will triple check load recipes from now on. They all say what bullet they used to develop the load, even the Hodgdon online site.

H110 is great fun in my Blackhawk with Hornady XTPs. A definite "plugs and muffs" round.

As to the Charter...

There are several threads on this site about the poor quality of their product.

I have only worked on mine but it was crap from the factory. I ended up grinding the cast marks and burrs off and polishing every internal part before it would function correctly.

A little troubleshooting to narrow down the problem.

Pull the hammer back and rotate by hand. Does it still bind? If not, it is an internal problem.

Use a sharpie to blacken the back of the cases. If, when it binds, the marker is scraped off, that is where it is rubbing.

When it binds up, check the cylinder to forcing cone clearance with a light and/or a feeler gauge.