Two pro-gun groups clash - who's right?

[rswartsell]

I also am with the NRA on this one.

 

[JRH6856]

I think we're giving them too much credit. I don't believe they're activists trying to get handgun open carry. So far all I've seen are some immature young adults who have found a loophole in the Texas law as an opportunity to get a 'selfie' for their facebook page.

You need to take a closer look:

opencarrytexas.org/1_10_Photo-Gallery.html

 

[taliv]

Correct me if I'm wrong or I'm misinterpreting what you said, but OC of handguns is fully illegal in TX which is why they OC long guns in protest.

morecy2, see graphic in post #2

 

[jcwit]

Open carry is legal here in Indiana, and its not unusual to see someone carrying a handgun in the open, but I've yet to see anyone carrying a long gun down the street or in a restaurant or other place of business.

But then I'm not everywhere at once.

 

[ares338]

Guns don't send me into spasms of hand wringing fear like it does the yuppie community. This said, I still would not go into a fast food joint with a rifle slung over my back. I think that people tend to fear being trapped with no way out when guns are openly carried. A bunch of young people carrying rifles are not going to desensitize anyone out of their gun phobia. I feel the open carry movement would be better served by keeping their outings in an open air environment where people who are interested could amble up and enter into a dialogue if interested. Either way you look at it, anything that divides the gun community is not advisable.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nra-calls-open-carry-rallies-downright-weird-23968843

So, the NRA has spoken out against Open Carry Texas.

OCT is claiming they will speak out against the NRA.


So, the dividing begins.

I'm sure the Anti folks couldn't be happier, and it would seem we've done this to ourselves ?

Clearly illustrates what divisive behavior does to our cause, and how the actions of a few can have consequences for the many.

Two camps won't work. How do we come together on this?

Sorry...I don't agree with the statement " the NRA has spoken out against Open Carry Texas" at all. I've read what they, and the Texas Open Carry people said and I don't get this interpretation at all.

I have three kids, 15, 14, and 12 and as a way of dealing with their developing maturity level, I tell them this:

"If you want to be treated like an adult and have increased privileges accordingly, then you need to ACT like an adult. If you want to be treated like a kid with all kinds of restrictions, then act like a kid."

THIS is "how we come together" on this.

I don't see any difference between how I treat my kids with respect to responsibility and maturity and what the NRA or Open Carry Texas people have said.

Act like mature, responsible adults and be treated accordingly. Act like a clown and be treated accordingly.

 

[Agsalaska]

“I have told the groups that I have talked to not to do this right now. I think it is more harmful. The only reason it wouldn’t pass is if we do something stupid and attract bad publicity,” Lavender told Texas Politics, emphasizing that open carry legislation appears to be a slam dunk in the 2015 session. “It’s good legislation. This could be harmful in getting it passed. We’re so close to getting it done. I would hate to see it damaged inadvertently.”

http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics...rson-open-carry-demonstrations-could-backfire

This is a quote from State Senator George Lavendar, a Republican from Texarkana. Im not sure why this simple logic is so hard for these guys to understand. The article was in the Houston Chronicle. I also saw an article about it but havent read it on the front page of the Fort Worth Star Telegram.

It has nothing to do with whether or not you can legally carry an AR15 into a fast food joint. It has everything to do with getting this legislation passed. These guys have no clue what they are doing.

 

[Tommygunn]

I also would like to say I am with the NRA on this.

I understand the reason, or desire of the Open Carry Texas group to carry their longarms around and sort be .... "in your face" about it. After all various other groups have done that and probably rightfully so. Blacks and others sympathetic to their cause back in the 1960s marched with leaders such as the Rev. Martin Luther King for their cause -- and that is pretty "in your face." It was certainly a public gathering and a demonstration. And over time it worked.
In today's world we see gay marriage become increasingly accepted and courts overturning laws limiting marriage to conventional male/female couples. Whether one agrees with this or not one cannot deny that much of it results from gays making their cause public.
However, an old wag by the name of Ralph Waldo Emerson once quiped in an essay; "a foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds; adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines." We might like to think that we ought to be able to employ those self-same "in your face" tactics -- but it isn't a good idea, as many here have stated.
Think about it. Today we all agree that the old Jim Crow laws were evil and blacks and other minorities should be equal under the law. One may object to homosexual marriage for religious reasons but can't really claim that two men getting married across the country, state, or town really affects their own life, or marriage.
But if you and you spouse are eating at a restaurant, maybe with your children, and a couple of nimrods come in with an AR15 and a SKS slung over theor shoulders, or even held at the "low ready" position, it cannot be seen as an abnormal reaction to be immediatly concerned with the health and welfare of the spouse and children. WE might know they're trying to make a point -- but that family there doesn't.
See what I mean? Yes, others have said it as well. I agree with them.
Now, I am in favor of carrying firearms. There has to be a smarter way of accomplishing our goals, without employing techniques that will blow up in our faces .... and make us look like hobgoblins to the general public!

 

[Agsalaska]

My confidence level that OC would pass the next session of the Texas Legislature and be signed into law was about 95%. Then OCT started their walks. Then the copycat groups started invading restaurants.

My confidence level is down to 80% and falling fast and an attempt to ban all OC would not surprise me. I don't think there will be such a ban passed in the next session, but it may get introduced. If the Dems work it right, this single issue could have a big effect on the election. Texas politics is strange. Just when you think voters are certain to vote one way, is when they are likely to surprise you and go the other way.

Me too. In fact I am not at 80% now. More like 50-50. These guys need to disappear.

 

[Apachedriver]

morecy2, see graphic in post #2

Taliv,

Texas law prohibits handgun OC, not long gun OC. Long gun OC, specifically, is actually not addressed in Texas laws. This is why it is legal to do.

I'm not in agreement with OCT's tactics or the resulting negative views that are sprouting up but it is legal.

My biggest issue with them is why are they carrying long guns in low ready positions or port arms? That's akin to walking around with a handgun in low ready. Those positions are tactical ready positions when moving around with a potential threat. Unacceptable in public for safety reasons at the least. Mags shouldn't be locked and loaded if they insist on handling or fondling their long guns in public. Otherwise, just sling them so it looks to fit as a part of everyday life.

 

[Art Eatman]

What these demonstrators have done is set back the cause of open carry for probably a long time, if not forever. Between the media response and the soccer-mom folks, the noise level against OC will quite likely kill it in the upcoming legislative session.

And I'd not be surprised to see the introduction a bill outlawing open carrying of long guns around in public.

 

[BSA1]

Bikers that wear long hair, have tattoos, dark sunglasses and wear leather vests and jackets and ride hogs didn't change their image by parking their bikes in the garage and start riding Honda scooters.

 

[Apachedriver]

What these demonstrators have done is set back the cause of open carry for probably a long time, if not forever. Between the media response and the soccer-mom folks, the noise level against OC will quite likely kill it in the upcoming legislative session.

And I'd not be surprised to see the introduction a bill outlawing open carrying of long guns around in public.

Especially if Davis gets elected.

 

[Agsalaska]

Bikers that wear long hair, have tattoos, dark sunglasses and wear leather vests and jackets and ride hogs didn't change their image by parking their bikes in the garage and start riding Honda scooters.

Go on.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I am pro-OC advocacy when it comes to well groomed well behaved individuals with OC side arms in private places as well as group OC in public places.

Long arms in restaurants is Weird and Stupid.

Mike

 

[BSA1]

What would Charlton Heston do?

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

The first principle must be: DO NO HARM! Just because you have the right to do something does not mean you should do it ... not that it might not be a good idea.

I respect your right to open carry ... but what is it costing us in terms of BAD PUBLICITY generated? "So what" is NOT an acceptable answer! If those kinds of actions set back the cause of advancing gun rights ... then it's a REALLY BAD IDEA!

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

My biggest issue with them is why are they carrying long guns in low ready positions or port arms?

In the pictures I've seen, all the members doing that have single point slings, which means that the muzzle will swing around uncontrollably unless you hold the rifle. Additionally, in the now infamous Chipotle picture, the guy with the SKS has his single point sling adjusted where the SKS muzzle would probably be dragging the ground if he didn't hold it.

Not that those facts make me feel any better with their carry of long arms mind you. It seems like that would be a good case for a two-point sling of some type.

Especially if Davis gets elected.

Luckily, that is one problem I don't think we'll have to worry about.

 

[JohnBT]

"What would Charton Heston do?"

Charlton.

During his 84 years on this Earth I don't recall that he EVER carried a rifle into a restaurant.

If he'd wanted to I believe he would have.

_____________

Sure, sling your rifle over your back and go stand in line and hope the person behind you doesn't flip the safety and pull the trigger while the barrel is pointed at your butt. Pure stupid is what it is.

 

[blarby]

Sorry...I don't agree with the statement " the NRA has spoken out against Open Carry Texas" at all.

I rebut. They certainly have;

"But the group's lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action, has called the demonstrations counterproductive to promoting gun rights, scary and "downright weird."

The NRA said the demonstrations have "crossed the line from enthusiasm to downright foolishness."

"Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners. That's not the Texas way. And that's certainly not the NRA way," the NRA said in a statement posted on its website Friday."

And- back to the question at hand- yep, its a divisive issue, how to go about this.

Is it better to have part antagonist " in your face" exposure, or not ?

Some would say one way, some would say the other.

My question is, what and how should we bring these forces together... because division isn't helping us.... or is it ?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

My question is, what and how should we bring these forces together... because division isn't helping us.... or is it ?

There is a thought that there needs to be a whole "Malcolm X" to the NRA's "Martin Luther King" among some RKBA activists. I personally don't think that is a great strategy; but if you are pursuing that strategy then an inherent part of it is that there has to be a divide between Malcom and Martin. That's how the strategy works.

 

[herrwalther]

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. You CAN yell the N-word in Harlem, but don't be surprised when you end up in the hospital. Foolishly carrying long guns to protest a law in an establishment (ie restaurant) without prior approval by said establishment makes you and every other 2A supporter look like an idiot. It does not matter to the antis what you were TRYING to do with your demonstration. Firearms are very polarizing and we walk a fine line. The only thing that keeps the 2A being voted out of the Constitution is votes. Anything that takes away those votes hurts us all. Leave the sheeple be, we are far from the comfort with firearms that Sweden or Israel are. We will get there hopefully.

I carry concealed every day. I am not afraid of firearms. OC in this state and the places I visit are rare, to say the least. But OC is legal here. Just the other day I saw a man OC a Glock 10mm. The only pause it gave me was I was trying to figure out what it was, a little game I like to play for firearm identification.

I am sure the NRA is not going to abandon or go after supporters of open carry. We have to pick our battles and right now they are saying, gently, that stupid or foolish open carry hurts the 2A cause that is on egg shells already. When laws such as microstamping, the SAFE act, FOID, magazine restrictions and all that other junk are gone; concealed carry is accepted in every state and county, then we can tackle open carry rights. But for now if you walk in a Starbucks with an AR at the low ready, you just look like an idiot and hurt everyone.

DISCLAIMER: "You" and "your" not directed to THR or any member.

 

[Art Eatman]

The restaurant open-carry demo was not an official OCT deal, as I understand it. Just because a couple of members of a group do something does not mean it's condoned by the organization.

As near as I can tell, the NRA reacted to the demo; might have thought it was an OCT official deal. But I don't really know for sure.

For those who would draw parallels to demonstrations by the gays, remember that Joe Sixpack's not afraid of nylon undies and lipstick. Sally Soccer-mom may well be afraid of guns. The potential for actual fear is the blowback that's showing up in the media and in politicians' inboxes.

 

[22-rimfire]

For those who would draw parallels to demonstrations by the gays, remember that Joe Sixpack's not afraid of nylon undies and lipstick. Sally Soccer-mom may well be afraid of guns. The potential for actual fear is the blowback that's showing up in the media and in politicians' inboxes.

Yep. This is mostly a stunt and it may have ramifications down the road in Texas. I have no problem with open carry and I technically carry that way sometimes in situations that I perceive to be higher risk where a show of force may be helpful. But there are different views on that practice too. Generally I think you're better off if you try to keep it concealed.

 

[huntsman]

For those who would draw parallels to demonstrations by the gays, remember that Joe Sixpack's not afraid of nylon undies and lipstick. Sally Soccer-mom may well be afraid of guns. The potential for actual fear is the blowback that's showing up in the media and in politicians' inboxes.

So one has to ask IF these folks in Texas OC muzzle loaders, shotguns and lever guns would there be such reactions? Is the deep seeded fear of the NRA and gun community really because of the style of gun? I find this whole situation very interesting as I do the comments here.