Tyros, novices and newbies....

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Yep. Dave's THE man on the scattergun stuff.

BA/UU/R is his mantra. It's buy ammo, use up, repeat... Shotguns are very unlike handguns and rifles - one's focus is on the target, not the (front) sight.
 
Al, "Flattery will get you anything"- Mae West....

Don't be embarrassed, plenty of my money got wasted. However, it was longer ago than most so the stories have died out(G)...

These days our finances require some stern trimming to keep kids in College, and discretionary income is but a pittance. So, I get inventive instead of just signing checks.

BA/UU/R is as friend Al states. Also, it's a reminder that once fit and form reach an acceptable level, the best way to shoot better is to shoot more. Let the targets teach you.

Finally,I do not consider myself an expert. The more I learn about shotgunning, the more I ken that I do not know. It's glad I am to pass on what I do know, and continue learning as I may.
 
Well I have learned a bunch from Dave and all those whom share on this Forum. Thanks to Dave, and all whom contribute.

Another one whom will buy a book if so authored by Dave. We have some classic material on archive b/t TFL and THR.
 
BA/UU/R is his mantra. It's buy ammo, use up, repeat... Shotguns are very unlike handguns and rifles - one's focus is on the target, not the (front) sight.
Click to expand...

Al, for stuff on the ground as well? I was taught that for airborne targets but was unsure about ground targets. :confused:
 
OK Dave I'll ask one.

I have an 870, love it, no problems, cyl barrel.

I know nothing about chokes, except from what I have gleaned from your excellent articles and other comments and forums. I am anxious to experiment.

I ordered a Baikal SXS Bounty Hunter IZH43KH BOUNTY HUNTER II WITH TRUE HAMMERS for fun. Don't know when it is going to arrive, appears to be a big demand. I downloaded the owners manual off the website for getting a jump on familiarization. According to the ordering description, it comes with FULL, MODIFIED, AND IMPROVED CYL CHOKE.

QUESTION: It is unclear to me if there is TWO chokes of each type or just ONE. Sure wouldn't like to try to remember specific loads for EACH barrel. I do remember that some people have different chokes installed for a follow on shot.

Silly question for some, but I AM on a learning curve, absorbing as much as I can, ahead of time. In the end, nothing like hands on familiarization, patterning etc.
 
best source for purchase?

I think I will be able to afford a Remington 870 in two to five years. New baby on the way... So how does one go about finding a 870 express combo (I like Dave's recommendation, but how to get 14 inch barrel as private citizen?) at a decent price?

much thanks
 
yy, AFAIK, forget the 14" in California.

Turner's has occasional sales where the HD model (870 Express w/ full length magtube) goes for $300.
 
LCSNM, your Bounty Hunter probably comes with choke tubes, interchangeable inserts at the muzzle that enable the owner to select the constriction that would best control the pattern for the shot. At a given distance, Improved Cylinder(IC) has a more open pattern than Modified, which has one more open than Full Choke. Use IC for Close shots, Modified for longer, Full for the longest.

This is oversimplified, but IMO you'll get the idea. You probably have one of each, so you can use one barrel best closer than the other. The thread, Chokes 101 that I started and many of the cogniscienti added to will have much more for you.

YY, stick with at least an 18" barrel, shorter ones can be had with lots of paperwork, but not worth the hassle.


HTH....
 
Dave, allow me to try again.

On SxS shotguns that come with chokes, as the Bounty Hunter does. They say Full , Modified and IC. OK, now does a mfr normally provide TWO of each TYPE or just one. That was my question. In other words will there be 6 choke tubes or 3 choke tubes, one of each type or two of each type.

Dave, I DO THANK YOU for all of your 101 series. I have already devoured them over and over. They are easy to understand and pretty thorough, along with all the other good comments from the forumites. I do thank you all!
 
You're very welcome,LCSNM, glad to help.

I've none of these, but most makers furnish ONE tube in each constriction. Ruger does offer two skeet chokes with its new SXS, but they are the exception.

Dunno if there's aftermarket tubes available.IOW, you'll not be able to have both barrels Full/Full, or IC/IC or M/M.

But....

Most folks don't want the same choke in both barrels. Usually, one works for close shots, one for farther. A two triggered SXS has instant choke selection.

Example, you move in behind the pointer and the covey flushes. Focussing on one bird, you drop that one with the right,I/C barrel, find another in your vision and take it also. The first was shot at 19 yards, good distance for I/C, second at 28, good for Modified.

Or, as the guide says "Take them" you stand up in the blind and swing on a goose. Knowing the closest birds will be within range for a moment longer, you use the left barrel with it's Full choke to blast one of the farther honkers, then go to the front trigger and the Mod choke to take a "Candy Bird" still near the decoys.

THIS is the big reason doubles are still the choice of many hunters. Instant choices, IF you have two triggers. A selective single trigger can be preset, but it's not quite as versatile.

HTH...
 
Well - since you asked for newbie questions...
I'm really confused about 12 gauge ammunition. I've heard about different shot type, size and amount in various loads. I've recently bought my first shotgun - a general purpose SxS 12g coach gun. What kinds of ammo should I buy for it for different purposes? What kind of 12g ammo is good to stock up on ?
Thanks for your help.
 
Zeb, my apologies. I overlooked a query of yours and something kept bothering me about this thread. So, I went back and found it.

You asked if I taught.

The short answer, yes. For free...

The long answer....

I let my certification lapse some years ago, so I can no longer "Certify" someone for their CCW permit. But I do teach, sometimes I head for PGC to do a little shooting and end up instructing newbies more. That's life and my priorities are in order. It happy I am to help folks.

SO....

Anyone who would like basic instruction in shotgunning and lives near Central MD, feel free to contact me. I've got a crazy work schedule with two jobs, but maybe I can find a few hours to give folks Shotgun 101 in person.

Also, anyone with "Serious" facilities near me please contact me. I know there's a group near Fort Meade that shoots "Practical" but I can't seem to get in touch with any.

Thanks...
 
MacPelto:

I'm a little late in my reply but here's my take on your questions.

The classic English gun is the sxs hammer gun. The sxs layout was more conducive to external hammers. When the hammers became internal the advantage was lost but the tradition of the sxs remained.

As Dave noted, it took John Moses Browning’s development of the Superposed to break through with a design that was comparatively cheaper than the English guns. Next in line was the Remington Model 32, a gun design that lives on today as the Krieghoff K-80. But these were still relatively expensive guns. It was the pump gun and the semi-auto that cut into the sxs popularity because they were less expensive and reliable.

The trend to the o/u started in the late 60's and 70’s when Daniele Perazzi introduced the Perazzi MX8. It was THE gun to have and in many respects still is. Stackbarreled guns further gained in popularity as advanced production techniques brought us the Remington 3200, Winchester 101, Browning Citori, Ruger Red Label, SKB and various models from Beretta. Unlike the Browning Superposed or the Remington 32, these guns were not priced well out of reach for most shooters.

I’ve hunted both sxs and o/u in the field. The standard sxs configuration of straight grip, splinter forearm and double triggers has a lot going for it. My sxs is quicker and more instinctive than an o/u and easier to carry because it’s lighter. I also like the fact that when open the sxs gape is less than an o/u. My back up gun for the field however is a multi-use 20 gauge skeet gun so I'm not wedded to hunting with a sxs. When clay targets are on the line I’m reaching for my o/u.

Dave’s answer to the Savage Fox question is correct. Savage bought the name, cut corners and the guns aren’t in the same league as the earlier versions made by Fox although later production Fox guns sometimes aren’t that great either.

Paul
 
bukijin

What ammo you use depends on what you are doing and while there are many options, they can be sorted into a few choices.

For targets the standard load is 2-3/4", 3 dram, 1-1/8 ounce #8 or #7-1/2 shot. You can go to lighter loads of one ounce or 2-3/4 dram if the recoil is bothersome. The target load with #7-1/2 shot does double duty for small bird hunting such as ruffed grouse.

For larger birds such as pheasant, I've found 2-3/4", 3-1/4 dram 1-1/4 ounce in #6 to work very well but might go to larger shot later in the season when the birds are a little tougher.

I'm not much of a waterfowler but what I have found works for me is #2 non tox in 1-1/2 ounce charge weights for ducks and 3" magnums with heavier shot payloads for geese.

For large game hunting with a shotgun I prefer slugs to buckshot but have some 00 buck around for predator control.

I note you are in Australia and I'm not sure whether you use English or American sizing for shot. There are some differences between the two.

These are my basic selections but I'm sure that every participant here has their own choices.

Paul
 
Dave....Thanks again for taking the time to invite and respond to all of us....I have a stack of Shotgun videos that have'nt inspired or informed me nearly as much as searching through your posts here and on TFL. You're a class act Dave...Thank you.....Zebulon
 
Aw, shucks....

You're very welcome. Please pay it forward. When you can, teach someone.
 
Ok...extreme nubie question, but since the only bad question is the one not asked...
If a box of shells doesn't say its steel shot (or any other metal besides lead), should one just assume that its lead? Specifically the cheap boxes of shot shells that wal-mart sells like the Winchester Universal.
 
Another novice here - looking for some advice from the elders...

I started experimenting with slugs on my 1187 Skeet, just got a 21" barrel with a rifled choke. I've been having trouble with slugs occasionally not firing - the primer is dented but no bang. Tried Remington, Winchester, Brenneke all the same problem.

Never had a problem with target loads. It seems that with the 21" barrel, the hammer doesn't strike the pin as hard but I could be imagining this. Is my spring too weak? Thanks
 
78, ALL non toxic shot, including tungsten, nickel, iron, bismuth and combinations of these, is marked as such.

Lead shot is usually an alloy of lead, mostly with antimony. Premium shot runs up to 6% antimony, which costs more than lead. Pure lead can deform if looked at hard, the antimony hardens the alloy, keeping it rounder and more likely to A, stay in the pattern and B, retain more energy to transfer to the target.

Promo loads often have shot ranging from pure to 3%. Little has 6%, but the Federal Valu packs may come close.

For those of scientific bent,Brister devised a rough test. Use needlenose pliers to squeeze a pellet and note how much pressure it takes. Squeeze another of same size but other make. Thus one can compare relative hardness.

Tripeevil, see if the target loads work out of that short barrel as far as firing goes. Also check to see if the barrel is on tightly. Adding head space can affect ignition.

Mac, glad to help....
 
Nother extreme newbie question...

Do you have a diagram of exactly where the butt should go on the shoulder? I once shot my SG and thought after I shot it that it was too high and woud fly over my shoulder. However, the subsequent shots hit my (tender) upper bicep which smarts something awful.

Any ideas (besides shoot where you had it b4:p )?
 
No diagram, Mike, but maybe I can 'splain it.

First, stand so you're facing where you're going to break the target. Take a step with your forward foot as if you're walking to the target, but stop and MAINTAIN that lean as you bring up the shotgun to your face. Most folks use a stance too sideways for best work, and the butt tends to end up out on the upper arm. This WILL hurt,, and you'll also miss.

The heel of the stock should be about even with the top of the shoulder.

Mount the thing and as you bring it up to your face, bring up your firing side elbow until your arm is parallel to the ground. This makes the "Cup" where the butt goes. It's a little inside the joint itself, using the swell of the joint as an index for the outside edge of the pad to go. Note you need the same facial pressure and placement each time.

This is where dry mounting at home pays big dividends. Work on getting it right first, then getting it right and doing so smoothly, then the above and a little faster. Trust me, this will help immensely. 25 reps each day will do more good for your shooting than 25 shells will.

HTH....
 
So does that mean that you shouldn't keep the butt of the stock against your shoulder when you fire. Just a little confused. I finally got to fire my Moss 590 today, and shoulder was a little fatigued, but not hurting.

Another question. Should one practice firing from the hip for HD purposes? I know that if you're going to grab the shotty for HD, then you probably won't have much time to bring up muzzle to aim. I'm particularly interested in this because I now live in an apartment, and am wanting to have an automatic response if the need ever arise.
 
The butt should be held firmly against you, but when we say shoulder we're actually talking about the place I mentioned. A few folks actually mount on the joint, but it's not recommended.

I'm about to write a thread on PG only shotguns and hip shooting. As for HD purposes, any crisis occurring past contact distance will see my HD 870 used from the shoulder.

HTH...
 
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