Uberti '58 Remington Carbine 44 Rem. Conversion

[Old Dragoon]

I finished my 44 Rem. conversion of my Uberti Rem Carbine this weekend.
Thought you might like to see it after I reblued the whole frame to get rid of the Plum color.
The Kirst 44 Rem Conversion cylinder was hand fit to remove .018 off the length to fit the Uberti Carbine and a Euroarms '58 Rem. it actually fits and functions better in the Carbine, so that is where it will live. I relieved the forearm to allow it and the ejector both to be used.

Left


Right


Closeup of Conversion cylinder and Ejector arrangement

 

[sjohns]

THIS is nice.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Thanks Sjohns,
Glad you like it. I like it too....
I did the conversion and the rebluing of the frame(frame was Plum colored and the piece is 14 years old and unfired). On the older repro's sometimes the frame go to plum color because of dissimilar metals used in the frame and the BBL.

I cannot take credit for the forearm as it was done for the previous owner some years ago my Major231 on the SCORRS Fourm on CAS City website. I relieved the Forearm for the ejector rod.

The forearm is for looks only as you don't hold a revolving carbine by the forearm as you can lose extremities if there were ever to be a chain fire with C & B, and with the cartridge conversion there is too much gas and flames that come out between the chamber mouth and the forcing cone. The hook on the TG is for the off handhold.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

That is NEAT. The forearm really sets it apart from other revolving carbines.

 

[sjohns]

Dragoon

Yeah, I have one of the newer models and I installed an Uberti drop in in it. I know that kirst makes a gated conversion, but I needed to save money.

It seems that once the conversion is installed the danger of shooting one's hand off from a chain fire is eliminated. (You would think) But I still don't let my hand go forward because the newer model has this rather light weight toy quality, if you know what I'm saying, and its bothersome a little. But I do like mine also. I just cant stand the buckhorn sight.

The one that you have is a beautiful piece. I'll bet it gets lots of oohs and aahs at the range.
Scott

 

[Old Dragoon]

I found one on, I thnik The Open Road or somewhere that was the original back sight on Remington rifles. it is a reverse ladder type and i intend to change mine out so as I can afford it. I remember now it is in this issue of SHOOT Magazine.
I',m going to shoot mine tomorrow. what are the ranges(nom) in the ramp cuts,
I take it that in the very lowest notch it should be 25 or 50 yd.s.

Any Ideas?

 

[sjohns]

very lowest notch it should be 25 or 50 yd.s.

On mine, using both bp and then the conversion cylinder, It seems that (I will be keeping better records in the future like I SHOULD be) the bp was good at 50yds (30gr Hogden Goex I think) but that the 45long colt was very high. The ramp sight was making me nuts so I just gave up the last day I went out with it.

looking down that barrel, the buckhorn looked a mile apart from ear to ear. I used the small slot on the bottom and still had problems. I checked myself for pull and buck, and I think I was doing everything fairly right.

At 25, the gun seemed to shoot way up at the top if I can remember. I was using military 25 yard pistol faces stapled on the cardboard and was aiming at 6 oclock on the bottom of the cardboard to hit black at 25 yds. Almost a foot under the x maybe?

The only thing I didn;t do was pull that little ramp insert completely out as I thought it would just get worse. Definitely can't file the front sight down.

The bore on the barrel is centered at the muzzle end, so I don't think a weird bore is the culprit. I just need to go back out, take my time, write it down etc, and I'll be able to figure it out.

But it generally shoots high. Good for windage once I turned the ramp sight a wee bit.

Maybe these things are sighted in at 100 from factory, I really don't know. I guess that the only help I can give you here is to be prepared for it to shoot high with 45lc. When I can get back out ans spend a morning, I'll update the results here. I probably ought to.

Scott

 

[cpileri]

question

Where exactly did you remove that 0.018" from the cylinder to get it to fit?

I am thinking that if you left it tight, there would be less gas and flames shooting out between the cylinder face and forcing cone. but i am also thinking that you know what you're doing and that the 0.018 had to come off from another place, and that the cylinder gap is just the way it is.

In any case, I am glad you posted this! it is an idea I have had for awhile, but just wont spend the $$. It is nice to know that it can in fact be done! And you did a great lookig job!

Are you shooting cowboy loads from it, or what?

C-

 

[Old Dragoon]

cpileri,
Thanks, I appreciate it when someone likes what I do.

The only difference in the Uberti Kirst and the Pietta Kirst '58 Remington Conversion cylibnders is the OAL of the cylinders.

The Pietta is long enough not to even fit into the Uberti or Euroarms frame. I took the measurement of the original Uberti C & B cylinder which I learned is the length of the Kirst Uberti cylinder. My cylinder was .018 longer, so I took .018 off the FACE of the Pietta Kirst Konvertor cylinder. You do not want to file off the pawl as that will change how the hand interacts with the pawl and change the lockup slot position to some degree.

I measured everything I could think of before deciding to go ahead and face off the cylinder. I am thrilled how it now works with the two Euroarms '58 Rem. revolvers and the Uberti '58 Carbine.

I shoot the original 44 Remington cartridge (remake of the original 44 Rem cartridge for original Remington conversion and Colt conversions, made until 1895) cartridge in them, it consists of 44 Colt brass and a 248 Grn heeled outside lubed bullet, 28 grn.s FFG Elephant BP, 626 FPS. it is an original load but now considered "Cowboy".
The OAL of this cartidge is the same as 45 LC, If I put that bullet into 44 Spl. cases and 30 grns FFG it approximates a 45 LC.

Sjohns,
Thanks, I always thought you used the slot in a buck horn anyway. If they let me shoot it in the morning at the indoor range, I'll post what happened. I'll be shooting the new trail boss smukeless 4.5 -5 grns and see how it does in the pistols first then shoot some in the carbine. ydage is only 15 yds so if i'm a little high with them all it is expected. I use a 6:00 Hold on the bull.

 

[sjohns]

Dragoon

I went out this morning with tha monkey stick with a box of Houston 45 colt, 255 gr Semi wadcutters.

I set up three targets, 15, 25 and 50.

The target was the standard pistol target that I used to use in the mc.

Aiming at 6 on the 9 ring at 15 produced X ring.

8 inches low at 25 put it in the black.

Approximately double that for 50 to hit black.

The ramp sight is at the lowest setting. Sight alignment: bottom notch/slit in the buckhorn.

I started trying to remember what the 1000 in range was about, and that ws for getting 300 yd data which was supposed to be "battle sight zero" for the M16. And that's about 25 yards. The point of impact was supposed to be 3 inches low at an "x" with the aiming point above.

Of course the muzzle velocities are different and I have the opposite occurring. I guess I should take it over to the long range next time and try different distances until I get poa/poi

I would have to know the distance to drop before I could calculate the range. So the second best choice is poppin at targets.

 

[Old Dragoon]

OK I'm in love! I took the carbine to my indoor range(15 Yds.) shooting 5 grn Trail Boss in 44 Colt brass and the 44 Rem 248 Grn bullets. Windage was dead on! holding the first 5 at 6:00 on the bull I was in the top of the black or the first white ring away from the bull on 100 yd Military official target. Second 5 were all in the black holding 6:00 on the first white ring out fron the bull. Third 5 were all in the ten ring holding just about 1/2 white ring below previous 5. 4th 5 were in the 10 ring.

The first 20 shot out of this carbine EVER! , and all in the black with 2 or three in the first white ring. All offhand. and in a shooting booth with 3 walls one in front cut out to shoot thru and 2 side walls 3 feet apart. I got NO flash, unburnt powder or anything from having the cylinder that close to my face.
This carbine loves the hand fitted Pietta Conversion cylinder and Trail Boss powder. I was totally amazed. Rear sight was as low as I could get it on the ramp (long flat). So it appears this is dead on at 25 yds in the lowest (long flat) of the sight using the notch to sight with. I will widen that notch some to better see the sight picture.

I also shot my two Euroarms '58's with the conversion cylinders. Newer one, New Uberti Gated Conversion cylinder, windage is dead on. 6:00 hold on the bull produced 5 shots about 1/2 bull high at 15 yds. which tells me it will be dead on at 25 yds. Next 15 shots were the same place with the same hold. to get a good group. I know I can move this group where I want it easily by holding different. All Shots off hand, two hand hold. 5 Grns Trail Boss, 248 Grn. 44 Rem. Newer Euroarms loves the Yberti Kirst Konvertor1 and trail boss. this I'll back off to 4.5-4.75 next time out to see if all three like that load I got . It loves the Uberti Kirst Konvertor.

1973 Euroarms '58 Rem. HATES the new Uberti Kirst Konvertor, Misfires, light strikes in the first five shots. those that fired hit the same area as the newer one, but I was so exasperated at the lightstrikes /misfires I swapped out the Uberti Kirst for handfitted Pietta into the 1973. Next 15 shots were flawless and 1/2 bull high at 15 yds like the newer one. The 1973 LOVES the hand fitted Pietta. I'll work on getting the 1973 to like the Uberti and figure out the light strikes/misfires. Actully I had only one light strike., There is a slight timing problem where the trigger engages the 1/2 cock position when fired. the 1/2 cock notch may be to high or not rounded enough to allow the tigger to pass over it. Got all week to figure this out and get the 1973 to like the Uberti Kirst better.

All in all a pretty good shooting session!.

 

[sjohns]

Sounds like you had a good day.

You know, you still might want to try shooting it at distance.

My experience was that an increase in range necessitated a lower sight picture.

But we can't forget that there is an arc between bullet travel and line of sight. The travel crosses both on the ascending and descending portion in relation to the line of sight.

But also like I said earlier, my carbine feels like its built like a toy.