Hand fitting a Pietta Kirst 44 Rem. Konvertor into a Euroarms '58 Rem.

[Old Dragoon]

I spent an enjoyable evening hand fitting my Pietta Kirst 44 Rem Konvertor to my Euroarms '58 Remington.A plus for this is that it fits the Uberti Carbine like it was born for it. I had been told that the only difference in the Pietta and the Uberti Kirst konvertor was the length of the pietta cylinder was longer by between .018-,020 inch. That appears to be a true statement. I took off approximately that much off my Pietta cylinder and it fits the Euro like a glove and when I tried the Konvertor in the Uberti Carbine it fit like it was made for it.

It was a scary thing to begin taking off metal from the face of the cylinder. Working on a potential $250.00 paperweight if it didn't work. But it did work and works very well in both.

Probably now too much of a gap to be used in the in the Pietta's now. Any thoughts on the .018-,020 gap between the forcing cone and the cylinder face??

 

[sundance44s]

sundance44s

Dragoon i`ve got some friends that shoot old colts that have saggy barrels with more gap than that ... i just stand behind them while they shoot ! what did ya use to shave the cylinder face ?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Since it's a Remington...

Dunno if this is feasible, but if it was a modern revolver, we'd screw off the barrel, turn down the shoulder so when it's reinserted it would be a mite bit closer. Trick is to have the sight perfectly vertical.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Sundance 44's,
I used a flat file and dial calipers to measure at every hour position on the face(12, 1, 2, 3, etc). I'd file a bit then measure and roll the cylinder in the Caliper jaws to see the high spots, file and measure, file and measure. I still need to chamfer the chamber mouths a bit(knock off the sharp edge)and chamfer the cylinder pin hole. It took a while of filing and checking to keep it square, but the result was great. I need a Unimat! It fits and functions in the Uberti Carbine better than the Euroarms, but fits and functions in the Euroarms as well.
When my Uberti Gated Kirst 44 Rem Konvertor gets here it'll go in the Euroarms '58.

I'm not going to put the Kirst back into the Pietta's, no looking back. I don't want to cause operator/spectator problems with excessive gap. I'm just happy I don't have a $250.00 paperweight!

 

[sundance44s]

Sundance44s

Good job Charlie .. one doesn`t have to have a machine shop to get her done ... i had alwaays wondered about doing that with the piettas cylinders .. good to know it works , i was also wondering about the cylinder ratchets looking different on the ubertis , i guess that didn`t make a difference . good to know .

 

[Old Dragoon]

The pawls look different, but the flats are in the same place on all three Euroarms, Uberti and Pietta and the pawl on the Kirst's are very small dia., looks like a star but again the flats are in the same place.

 

[sjohns]

If that's true about the pietta conversion cylinder fitting the job of an uberti, do you think the opposite is true?

Would an Uberti RM conversion kit work on a Pietta gun?

 

[Old Dragoon]

It would possibly fit but be too short. I took .018 off the Pietta Kirst Cylinder and that would leave too much gap between the chamber mouth and the forcing cone of the bbl. That is the concensus of opinions I got when I asked if that gaop would be too big if I put it back in the Pietta. I decided to not look back and just keep the Conversion in the Euroarms and the Uberti Carbine that it fits and functions in like it was made for them.

 

[sjohns]

Would you happen to know if the Uberti dropins also fit ASM?

 

[Old Dragoon]

Sundance44's can answer that better than I but I think the Uberti Kirst will fit the ASM. Jim at River Junction Trade Co. can tell you that also.

 

[sundance44s]

sundance44s

Yep i bought an R&D 44 drop in for an ASM it fit as far as the cylinder lenght same as a Uberti on my ASM ...... but heard someone in another forum say his ASM cylinder was the same as a Pietta ... soooooo maybe they have changed or something .... this i don`t know .. the ASM i bought was new in 1999 if that makes the difference . I did have to do a little stoneing on the ASM bolt , it was a bit too large for the small notches in the R&D drop in , but everything lined up perfect and its a good match . Been shootin and a grinning for a month now ..

 

[Old Dragoon]

Measure your cylinder total length, if it is over 2.018 or so inches then the Pietta will fit it .if it is 2.0 inches on the nose or less then the Uberti one will fit.

 

[Tinker2]

Old Dragoon

A file, I’m impressed. Good work.

Tinker2

 

[Old Dragoon]

Tinker2,
Well it was a little more than just swiping at it with a flat file. I used Dial calipers and took off just a bit at a time, measured all around the cylinder face(length). File a little bit and measure, took a little while to do but it works great in all three. I was told that the only difference in the Kirst Uberti Cylinder and the Kirst Pietta Cylinders was the length. Appears that was so. Everything aligns, locks up and functions flawlessly.

Did you enjoy Hawaii (sic)??

 

[sjohns]

Thanks for the info. I was thinking about picking up one of the dragoon drop ins for Uberti if it would fit the ASM 3rd model cavalry carbine.

I want to be able to shoot 45lc out of it. I was thinking that a drop in would be perfect, but there doesn't seem to be a lot made specifically for ASM. I understand it.

What I really dislike is that the cylinder I have with that Dragoon has Dragoons engraved on it rather than USMR and I haven't been able to find an extra cylinder marked the same yet. (I haven't looked REAL hard yet either, but I have looked around some.)

I'm not sure that kirst makes one for dragoons or walkers yet. I have an email here from walt himself as I was asking about the 1860 kit they had made in the past that was in the white. (it was advertised at river junction, then disappeared) He said that they will produce a few more in a couple of months. That't be nice to play with.

I'll bet that bolt is too wide also.

Thanks you guys, for your responses.
Scott

 

[sjohns]

I spent an enjoyable evening hand fitting my Pietta Kirst 44 Rem Konvertor to my Euro

You know I actually enjoyed the somewhat long process of converting a 51 Uberti I had into a 38 long colt. I had an R&D RM kit. I took my time using my dremel to carve out the loading "ramp" or "slot" , touching it often to check for heat and keeping it cool enough that all I had to do was cold blue it. It took 2 to 3 hours, I wasn't really watching the clock.

I got a lot of satisfaction out of that.

It seems to me, when you get right down to it, these black powder repros are good all around guns. They are relatively easy to maintain, tune, and fix, they have a simple construction, and it sort of gives you that self sufficient feeling.

 

[Third_Rail]

Dragoon - no lathe to use?

 

[sjohns]

No not at this point.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Nope, not at this point in time. No place in this 5th wheel for it...LOL I just set down one night (the night I found out that the 44 Rem Konvertor was going to be a special orader from Kirst) and instead of watching mindless TV I decided that I could shorten the Pietta Kirst Cylinder. Knew I needed to keep it square so used the Dial Calipers and measured between each chamber and then again across the centers of the opposing chambers and rolled the cylinder in the caliper jaws. I don't know how long it took but it went faster than I thought it would. .018 is a lot to take off with a file!

Slow and easy fit the bill. I know if I had the use of a lathe I could have done the job in minutes, But it was an enjoyable evening. AFTER I took some time to work up the intestinal fortitude and figure out how to do it without making a $250.00 paperweight when I was done.

The fact that it works perfectly in the two Euroarms and the Uberti Carbine is the reward.
Wow! What I could do with the proper metal working tools???

 

[Third_Rail]

Wow! What I could do with the proper metal working tools???

Screw up right quick. You did it the way you know best. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Well I have been around a machine shop quite a bit. I can setup and run a lathe and a mill, and even a couple grinding machines. I also have heat treated metal in the same shop. I was a mechanical Designer (Board and CAD) for 40 years or so. Built several Muzzleloading rifles and a few pistols. Pretty mechanically inclined.

You are right though. A few seconds with the wrong cutter or feed and you have a pile of shavings and a $250.00 Paperweight.

Old Cowboy way: You use what you have.

 

[Tinker2]

Old Dragoon

I know it was more than just swiping at it with a flat file. I am truly impressed.
I think of good quality hand filing as a art form. I would say well done.

“Did you enjoy Hawaii”

You bet, it was great. we stayed on the island of Kauai in Hawaii. a very nice
little island, nice people, cost of living was the same or less then where I live.
My wife wanted to see whales. we quit counting at 100. The tourist’s places
to eat were NOT very good food but if you went to the local Asian places, they
were great, if you like Asian food. It had rained for 11 days before we got there.
The weather was great the 10 days we were there. Then it has been raining from
the day we left. An earthen dam burst on the night we left, sending a 50-foot
wave into the Pacific Ocean. Killed 7 people I think.

I thought that you sounded like you had been around a machine shop quite a bit.
You just struck me as very mechanically inclined.


Tinker2

 

[gmatov]

Tinker 2,

I was under the impression that you, too, were rather mechanically inclined.

I know you know things that we don't know.

What you do share, we appreciate.

Cheers,

George

 

[Old Dragoon]

Tinker2,
Thanks I try hard. I enjoy a challenge. The next challenge?? I hope to be able to do a full old time conversion of a Euroarms'58 complete with the thin recoil shield and the modified BP cylinder. I will have to use a lathe for that one.

It does help to have a couple Engineering software packages on this computer. I have Autocad and Solidworks. I love drawing in 3D.

 

[Tinker2]

Gmatov

“I know you know things that we don't know.”

I understand some things that I can’t do. And
I can do some things that I don’t understand.

I think that we all come here to learn, to share, and to be
with like minded people. And yes I like to tinker too.

Old Dragoon

The next challenge?? Old time conversion? A modified BP
cylinder?

I think that I understand the idea of the thin recoil shield.
Please tell me the idea on the modified BP cylinder.

You have an original to look at?

I/We would like very much to know how/what you are going
to do.

Sounds like fun to me.
I like seeing drawing in 3D.


Tinker2