ugh... I need to move.

[improperlyaged]

I get home from work around 3:30AM everynight. Last night I get home and start getting out of my truck. About 50 feet away three guys (late teens) come out from hiding behind a house and start walking my way. First thing I did was grab my shotgun out from behind my seat and hold it by the reciever pointing it at the ground. I turn to them and give a very loud "HOWDY!!!". Loud enough to wake my neighbors. They stopped and turned around and went down the street away from my house. I am not sure what was going through their heads but three guys approaching me at o dark thirty in a not so great neighborhood makes me a little unnerved. When I got inside I called the cops to let them know there were several "suspicious" characters hanging around my neighborhood and requested a cruiser to come through and check on them.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I say "Hey!".. with great volume and diction. There is no doubt. get off my moss figure of speech

 

[gamestalker]

I think you handled it quite well. You were aware of your surroundings, didn't make a threat, had your weapon at ready and held in a non threatening manner, and you announced yourself without further inciting a confrontation, and you called LE, I'd say you covered most of the areas, good job!

As for moving, I don't know anything about your neighborhood, that's something you need to further assess and address.

GS

 

[mljdeckard]

I agree, I don't see anything here you did wrong. And the fact they avoided you probably means you did it exactly right.

And I'm glad you are being serious about your priorities. Sometimes moving is the answer. Not everyone is in a life situation where they can jump up and move to a better neighborhood (or state,) but if preserving your life is genuinely important to you, you must look seriously at all options.

 

[dprice3844444]

pump gun?i woulda racked the slide just to see their eyes bug out

 

[wrs840]

No need to create adrenaline by going Hollywood and "racking the slide".

From what he described, improperlyaged handled it with the appropriate level of escalation, IMHO.

 

[biohazurd]

That's funny because that is the same thing I say to suspicious people who are around my residence. A nice loud "HOWDY" goes a long way I think. Also living in the city, most people assume someone who says howdy is a country boy and for some reason all country boys pack heat. (That's pretty true where I grew up.) Growing up in a town of 12,000 people in South Dakota has given me a nice authentic HOWDY lol.

 

[Torian]

No one has any business walking up to you coming out of your vehicle at that hour. I would immediately be suspect as well.

It's always a gamble to brandish a weapon (I'm sure someone with a legal background will chime in), but you did diffuse the situation, and likely scared the bejebus out of a few youngsters.

 

[Al Thompson]

It's always a gamble to brandish a weapon

Very true. Local CWP holder got charged with brandishing when he waved his handgun at a road rage driver.

It ain't brandishing if the other guy doesn't see it.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

It's always a gamble to brandish a weapon (I'm sure someone with a legal background will chime in), but you did diffuse the situation, and likely scared the bejebus out of a few youngsters.

Where was he "brandishing" a weapon? He was going in for the night and carrying his shotgun (which was pointed in a safe direction) in with him at no time did he threaten or attempt to intimidate anyone with the shotgun.

 

[OleReb]

I would have and have done the same thing but with a handgun. At that time you have every right to suspect something is wrong when 3 guys start your way and don't even say anything. As for showing the weapon I don't advise that until they get close enough to where you could legally shoot them with self defense as a good reason,i live in FL where we have no requirement to retreat but i'm not taking any chances and wont show a weapon until I know i'd be justified to use it. To many young people nowdays would just get egged on by having somebody pull a gun and it might make them more determined to start something,cant make them feel like they got punked my stepson tells me

 

[Torian]

Where was he "brandishing" a weapon? He was going in for the night and carrying his shotgun (which was pointed in a safe direction) in with him at no time did he threaten or attempt to intimidate anyone with the shotgun.

Mr. Thompson can confirm, but I do believe brandishing a weapon can merely be as simple as displaying it. Whether you INTEND to threaten or intimidate is not necessarily relevant, depending on how the local DA looks at it (if the police got involved).

That said, when I read the original post, it was unclear to me whether the individuals saw the shotgun in the darkness.

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with what he did...I'm merely stating the legal risks of displaying a firearm for reasons other than a lethal response. If they didn't see it because of the darkness, then I agree it is a nonissue.

The OP stated he grabbed his shotgun after noticing the trio that were inbound. If there was a police response, he certainly would have had the perfect excuse if they accused him of pulling his shotgun on them (let's say he was illuminated by street lights instead of in darkness):

"Officer, I was already on my way inside with my weapon when I noticed the individuals walking towards me".

 

[Water-Man]

Although it apparently worked for the OP, saying Howdy might sound too friendly and embolden the suspects.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Hahaha! I'm also a South Dakotan! While I'm the SD version of a "city slicker" now I can still manage a good HOWDY!

 

[Trunk Monkey]

The OP stated he grabbed his shotgun after noticing the trio that were inbound. If there was a police response, he certainly would have had the perfect excuse if they accused him of pulling his shotgun on them (let's say he was illuminated by street lights instead of in darkness):

"Officer, I was already on my way inside with my weapon when I noticed the individuals walking towards me".

That's kinda what I was trying to say

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

It's always a gamble to brandish a weapon

Regardless of the various opinions expressed as to the "technicality" of any given display of a firearm as "brandishing" under given circumstances, there is truth to this statement.

Brandishing, in addition to the wording of the law, is subject to interpretation and false/misleading reports. And the word of the law varies from state to state, as well. In some states, what the OP did would, indeed, have been interpreted as "brandishing".

Instead of debating whether or not this actually constituted "brandishing", let's instead focus on the wisdom behind the statement "It's always a gamble to brandish a weapon". Namely, any time you display a weapon (especially in the circumstances given), you are responsible for the consequences...good or bad. So employ wisdom whenever you consider it.

 

[fallout mike]

So carrying your long gun into your house is "brandishing" a weapon to anyone that happens to see it when you are on your own property?

 

[Torian]

So carrying your long gun into your house is "brandishing" a weapon to anyone that happens to see it when you are on your own property?

In general...no. In this situation however the OP stated he did grab his weapon "after" noticing the group walking towards him. I could see an overly zealous DA (if things ended up going wrong instead of right) trying for something. Would they get it to stick? Who knows...they have a tremendous amount of discretion on such things. The city of Philadelphia vs. the state of Pennsylvania is a good example of this. We already stated earlier that if things came to that, he would have the perfect excuse, but he could still be questioned on it.

I do not think that the OP did anything wrong. He took a measured risk and it paid off. He grabbed his weapon, verbally confronted the group, and they ran off. If they continued their approach, it would be interesting to see how events would unfold.

Since I never know who is watching...I assume that if I need to display a weapon outside my residence, that someone may see it and report it to the authorities. If you draw a weapon in public for ANY reason, even on your front porch, a brandishing charge is always a possibility. As Al Thompson pointed out above, it is not brandishing however if no one sees you or reports it.

It is always worth discussing hypotheticals for the sake of learning from the scenario.

 

[Al Thompson]

Completely depends on local regulations. Here, we don't use the term "brandish". Our law is a bit more vague:

SECTION 16-23-410. Pointing firearm at any person. [SC ST SEC 16-23-410]

It is unlawful for a person to present or point at another person a loaded or unloaded firearm.

And it's a felony.

A person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined in the discretion of the court or imprisoned not more than five years. This section must not be construed to abridge the right of self-defense or to apply to theatricals or like performances.

 

[fallout mike]

It doesn't matter when he got his gun out in this case. He pulled into HIS driveway, got his gun to take into HIS house. Its not his problem somebody was walking into his yard with possible bad intent. He did not pull a gun on them.

 

[Al Thompson]

As to the morality of what your saying, I agree completely. As to SC specifics, there's no exemption apparent for your location (private vrs. public property.

That being said, I have zero clues as to how case law applies or offers relief based on being on your own property, it very well may. Or may not, which is part of my point.

 

[Torian]

It doesn't matter when he got his gun out in this case. He pulled into HIS driveway, got his gun to take into HIS house. Its not his problem somebody was walking into his yard with possible bad intent. He did not pull a gun on them.

Mike, you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't disagree with you. The problem is the law is not only vague in many areas but entirely open to interpretation by the local DA (as Al pointed out).

Something as simple as "presenting" an unloaded firearmscould be construed (right or wrong) as breaking the law according to the SC law above. Was this purposely written in this case to give law enforcement flexibility...or was it just poorly written to begin with?

If you want to be prepared for something like this to happen, you have to consider things from the perspective of law enforcement professionals, know your local laws as they apply, and how they could TRY to charge you with something. A personal belief that you did nothing wrong won't help you in this situation.

Hope for the best...plan for the worst.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by fallout mike: So carrying your long gun into your house is "brandishing" a weapon to anyone that happens to see it when you are on your own property?

Generally speaking, carrying a gun is not "brandishing" to "someone who happens to see it."

There are two potential issues: (1) possible violation of weapons laws, which may require that a firearm be cased or concealed, as applicable, except when one is hunting, shooting at a range, or in some jurisdictions, on one's property; and (2) other parts of the criminal code that involve assault, aggravated assault, and the like that pertain to unlawful actions that would reasonably be expected to cause another person to feel threatened. Regarding the latter, whether one is on one's property, on an easement that runs through one's property, or on a public tract of land is usually completely irrelevant.

 

[fallout mike]

I'm not arguing just to be arguing nor am I arguing with any of you. I'm arguing with the story and wording. He did not brandish a firearm.

 

[Kleanbore]

He did not brandish a firearm.

Other terms include "flourishing", "displaying", and "exhibiting", to name a few.

Whether is is lawful to do any of those things depends upon circumstance and the law, including case law.

Where I live, the law refers to "exhibiting" a weapon in a "threatening or dangerous" manner. The State Supreme Court has established that to so "exhibit" a firearm, it is not necessary to point it, or even for the other person to actually see it. That case involved someone firing a weapon where it could not be seen.

In another state, the "display" of a weapon can include simply stating that one is armed, showing the firearm, or placing one's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other form of containment or transport.

The threshold for justification varies among jurisdictions. Usually, deadly force would have to be justified, but in some states, the threshold is lower; in some, an immediate need for physical force would suffice. But someone walking toward one from fifty feet away would most likely be insufficient to justify any of those things.

On the thing that the OP did do correctly was to report the incident immediately.