UK paper asks: What's wrong with shooting burglars?

[jimpeel]

Agricola

This seems to lend credibility to the "lack of police resources" allegation.

LINK

FIVE-HOUR TRAUMA FOR RAPE VICTIM (AND THAT WAS AFTER THE ATTACK)


11:00 - 14 August 2003

A Suspected rape victim endured a five-hour wait for a medical examination because there was no police doctor available. The woman, who had claimed she was raped by four men, was told she could not drink any water or go to the toilet during the delay, in a bid to preserve evidence.

The office worker, who cannot be named for legal reasons, said the delays left her feeling "sick and dirty".

The incident took place on December 22, 2001, but details have only just emerged after the case against the four men accused of raping her collapsed.

Less than eight per cent of rape allegations in Bristol result in a guilty conviction and the woman at the centre of the case has spoken out to draw attention to the disparity in figures.

The five-hour wait was caused because there was only one Force Medical Examiner on call.

The examiner, a GP who covers Easton, St Paul's and the city centre for her police work, was called at 6.30am but she was engaged on another job and she did not begin the full medical examination until 11.30am.

The woman at the centre of the allegations said: "Victims of sex assaults should not have to wait several hours for a medical examination to begin.

"I felt dirty. It was a nightmare and there didn't seem to be any end. I just wanted to shower but I knew I couldn't. After what had happened I felt these delays just prolonged the agony.

"The actual police investigation was excellent and no stone was left unturned. I don't want to put off rape victims from coming forward but I have to speak out."

The woman, who is in her 20s and from Bristol, claimed she had been raped by four men at a house in Filton after a night out in Bristol.

She has no memory of a four-hour period from midnight and said she woke up at 4am naked in a room to find a stranger having sex with her.

The woman raised the alarm as soon as she was on her own, at 5.50am.

The importance of early medical intervention is vital in preserving evidence and checking for date rape drugs, which can disappear from the system within a few hours of being consumed.

Police spokesman Paul Gainey said: "The Force Medical Examiner is contracted to the police on a shift-to-shift basis. We don't have any jurisdiction over them. There is one examiner per district. Ideally an examination would not be delayed, but on rare occasions it does happen.

"The officers took advantage of the time caused by the delay to investigate the case. The woman was driven to identify the house where the incident allegedly took place. Although the full medical examination wasn't carried out for five hours, mouth swabs were taken by a police officer.

"Two officers worked on the case and four men were charged."

[email protected]

 

[jimpeel]

It seems that the Subjects aren't the only ones who have police response problems

LINK

Police ignored seven alarms and five CCTV shots of royal intruder
By John Steele, Crime Correspondent
(Filed: 15/08/2003)

The intruder who kissed Prince William at his 21st birthday party penetrated police security despite triggering seven alarms and being captured five times on CCTV, a Scotland Yard inquiry has found.

Aaron Barschak was recorded
on CCTV as he made his way to
the party room

Protection officers failed to respond to electronic warnings and no one patrolled the area of Windsor Castle where Aaron Barschak, a self-styled "comedy terrorist", entered.

A catalogue of failings, including inadequate planning and supervision, is highlighted by Cdr Frank Armstrong, of the City of London force, who was asked to investigate one of the Metropolitan Police's most embarrassing episodes.

Cdr Armstrong, formerly head of Tony Blair's personal protection team, warned that "complacency as a result of routine" (BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA) was a danger. Similar deficiencies to those at Windsor had been uncovered in a report into an intrusion at St James's Palace last December.

He called for a major review of royal security involving the Government, Royal Family and police.

Cdr Armstrong said police knew that every member of the Royal Family, except the Earl of Wessex, would be at the party, and that it had attracted huge public interest.

But the number of officers on duty actually fell after the party started. The most senior officer, a chief inspector, appeared to have left the party an hour after it began.

"The intrusion was not a complete systems failure but a failure to operate and maintain the systems correctly." (BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

Party activity - first the work of contractors, and then the arrival of guests - repeatedly set off the alarms in some areas. Contractors' vehicles also blocked alarms and cameras. But police failed to compensate for these difficulties by using patrolling officers.

On June 21, the day of the party, Cdr Armstrong found that "there were numerous alarm activations between midday and midnight. The police levels at Windsor were insufficient to provide the necessary response".

There appeared, he added, "to have been an over-reliance on officers being deployed at static posts, rather than patrolling".

Barschak scaled an embankment, two trees and a wall to enter Windsor. Cdr Armstrong said there was "an over-reliance" on the physical security provided by the castle wall. A programme of security improvements had done "little to prevent" another intrusion.

Barschak then activated alarms "in geographical sequence" and was recorded on CCTV as he made his way to the party room. "There appears to have been no operational police response to these alarm activations or the CCTV recordings."

The police "operation order" was "not comprehensive and was not completed" until the day before the party, allowing "insufficient time for effective oversight and necessary changes".

The report added: "The command structure was inappropriate and not sufficiently resilient for a royal event of this significance." Working conditions, resources and supervision in the police control room at Windsor were all inadequate.

The incident, Cdr Armstrong said, "should be the catalyst to review security at all royal residences in London and elsewhere in conjunction with the Home Office, Royal Household and relevant police services".

The report makes clear that the party was policed with "low key" security. The guest list was not handed over until the day of the party. However, the Metropolitan Commissioner, Sir John Stevens, said there was no evidence that the Royal Family had "interfered in the security".

"We are looking for a balance," Sir John said. "No one wants a security regime which is incredibly restrictive. What we are looking for is that the technology is right and the response to that technology is right."

Cdr Armstrong's report does not apportion blame to any officers. Eight members of the royal protection squad including the chief inspector and a Pc who accepted Barschak's claim that he was a "lost" guest after a contractor found him wandering are subject to the inquiry. He also proposes the creation of a new criminal offence of trespass in royal residences.

Barschak, who was never prosecuted, yesterday welcomed improved security but said a trespass offence would not deter somebody determined to harm a member of the Royal Family.

 

[agricola]

jimpeel,

With regards to the link about the torso - not really, as Zedicus was rather specific that a head had been washed up on the shores of Loch Lomond, and that Police were treating that death as non-suspicious. The case of "Adam" has seen almost unprecedented efforts by the AMIP teams to both identify the boy (they've narrowed it down to a small area in Nigeria) and to locate his killers.

The issues around the availability of the FME in county forces are well-dcoumented.

 

[KC]

Why was it that the case against the alleged attackers collapse? (For the above mentioned rape case.) Too long a time between the attack(s) and a medical examination? Or did the defence convince someone that she had been 'asking for it'?

I've heard some real horror stories about what socialized medicine has done to people, but this is probably one of the worst. What is the official justification for this unpreparedness? From what agricola said, the authorities know about it; are they actually doing anything to resolve this deficiency? Or, is it similar to situations in France, where some aspects of society don't want to hear about crimes like rape, and ignore it in the hopes that it will go away?

Incidently, what is the general public's reaction to the dissmissal/'collapse' of this case?


KC

 

[agricola]

KC,

I gather the prosecution were unable to prove that the sex was not consensual - the delay in the FME's arrival would probably have delayed blood samples being taken to establish the presence of any date-rape drugs.

Incidentally KC this is not down to "socialized medicine" - over here the only people permitted to take forensic medical samples from the living are the FMEs, which while they are paid by the Police for their callouts are not strictly speaking employed by Police.

 

[KC]

agricola:

"over here the only people permitted to take forensic medical samples from the living are the FMEs"


So, if a woman claims she is raped, it almost makes more sense for her to go to a police station than a hospital, as the emergency room personel at a hospital are not legally qualified to take blood samples?

KC

 

[Keith]

So, if a woman claims she is raped, it almost makes more sense for her to go to a police station than a hospital, as the emergency room personel at a hospital are not legally qualified to take blood samples?

Sounds like law enforcement is every bit as messed up as the health care system.

Keith

 

[agricola]

KC,

They can take samples, its just for it to be evidential they usually have to come from an FME. If a woman has been raped, then yes, its better for her to call the Police as well as medical help because the sooner Police are involved the higher the chance of the perpetrators being caught.

 

[jimpeel]

Agricola

Then will this do?

Searched on loch lomond +head

LINK

Teenager was victim of 'head in bag' killing
By Auslan Cramb and Richard Savill

A SEVERED head found on a Scottish beach was that of a "popular and well-respected" teenager who disappeared after a works night out, police said yesterday.

His killer decapitated and dismembered his body before dumping the parts at sites more than 60 miles apart, raising fears that the teenager was the victim of a psychopath who may kill again. Detectives leading the inquiry have not ruled out the possibility that the murderer may have claimed previous victims. Det Supt John Geates said they had no reason to believe the murder was the result of a homosexual attack.

Barry Wallace, 18, a supermarket worker, was last seen walking through a taxi rank in the centre of Kilmarnock at around 1.45am on Sunday, Dec 5. Police divers found his severed legs and arms on the east shore of Loch Lomond two days after he disappeared. Earlier this week, a woman walking her dog found his head in a carrier bag on Barassie beach in Ayrshire, 10 miles from his home in Kilmarnock.

His father Ian, 49, a BT engineer, said two days ago that he was "99 per cent certain" his son was not the victim. But the teenager was identified by DNA testing and by a family friend.

Before his son's identity was confirmed, Mr Wallace said: "I asked him if he was coming home after the works party, but he said he would be going to another party with friends. His last words were that he would see me tomorrow." A police source said the victim had no previous convictions and was "squeaky clean".

The dead man's torso has not been found and officers have not ruled out the possibility that the murderer is taunting them by leaving bits of the body in different locations. More than 60 Strathclyde Police offers are involved in the murder inquiry and an incident room has been set up in Kilmarnock.

A police source said: "No motive for Barry's murder has emerged. He was single and lived with his parents and older brother Colin, aged 21. He was a popular, well-respected young man." Mr Wallace worked as a shelf stacker for a Tesco store near his home and had taken the day off on Dec 4 to prepare for the party.

Workmates said he had danced during the party at the Foxbar Hotel before leaving to join friends at another venue. Mr Geates said: "We have no clear suspect. We have a number of lines of inquiry to follow. We cannot rule out anything at this moment." Chief Supt Bill Campbell, divisional commander for Kilmarnock and Ayr, urged revellers not to go for a night out unaccompanied.

For further info see:

More remains found in Loch Lomond

DNA test may match head with loch body parts

Alert for killer of dismembered man

Police file name of suspect in 'limbs in loch' murder

 

[KC]

agricola:
"They can take samples, its just for it to be evidential they usually have to come from an FME. If a woman has been raped, then yes, its better for her to call the Police as well as medical help because the sooner Police are involved the higher the chance of the perpetrators being caught."

I think you misunderstood part what I wrote. From my impression of procedure (at least in England) the first stop a woman who claims to have been raped is a police station, as only police personel, of whom the Forensic Medical Examiner I percieve to be a member of, is legally qualified to collect physical evidence from the alleged victim's body. We have established that only an FME can take blood samples, but does this also include semen samples and other physical remenants?

My point is that, assuming even *basic* competency of nurses in England, they should be able to draw a blood sample and store it in such a fashion that it remains in the evidence train. (My understanding is that this is part of the standard procedure and components of "rape kits" in most metropolitan hospitals in the US.)
The idea that such a sample(s) is valid only if gathered by an FME is ludicrous! I do not understand why such an absurd situation would be allowed to perpetuate itself, unless some labor union is protecting it's turf. If true, it is doing so at great expense to the safety of the public at large, and ought be held criminally liable.


"Chief Supt Bill Campbell, divisional commander for Kilmarnock and Ayr, urged revellers not to go for a night out unaccompanied."
Yes truly: when guns and other means of self-defence are outlawed, only outlaws will have them. Whatever cretin thought that to be a good idea needs to be confined to a lunatic asylum for the criminally insane. (Or, here's a good one; anyone that endorses this nonsense is charged as a member of a criminal conspiracy for every crime that occurrs with an 'illegal' weapon? Now wouldn't that be fun...Sahrah Brady up on the hot seat )

 

[agricola]

jimpeel,

thats the only link i could find - but zedicus was adamant that the Police had treated the death as "non-suspicious" - wheras that case led to a murder conviction, so I was forced to discount it.

KC,

they can and do do that (nurses); but our lawyers are just as sneaky as yours, and they can and do introduce doubt, cloud the issue, and attack the competencies of anyone they can in order to get their client off - which is why Police are reluctant in the extreme to do anything that might jeopardize the subsequent conviction, so the book must be followed to the letter. If an A+E doctor could stand up in front of a jury and state what his or her expertize was, and how many victims of rape he or she had examined, and what the evidence meant, then we probably would use them more than as merely a last resort. Hopefully we can expand the system so that its like yours in some respects, but (ironically due to the commercialization of the NHS) theres unlikely to be the money for that.

upon a complaint of rape, the victim usually taken to (if she isnt already at) a police station, where consent is sought to take various samples, the means for taking all of which are contained in whats colloquially called the "rape kit". The FME takes these samples and conducts an examination (Police can take mouthswabs, but thats it), seals them up, makes a statement regarding the procedure and so on.