Just came across this site whilst discussing gun crime and....wow! By the time I had got 1/2 way down the first page, I was convinced this was all satire and you were all in on the joke.
I then suddenly started to realise it wasn't satire, that you guys are actually having a serious debate. You're confirming a lot of fears here....
OK, background:
Ex forces (RAF Rgt - field infantry unit specialising in airfield defence). I was the squad gunner (GPMG) because I took one look at the SA80 and thought it was ****e - I wanted the big gun. I like guns And explosives. I don't enjoy killing people though (or any form of gratuitous killing), that's just a bit psychotic.
I'm British, English to be specific, lived for at least 3 years in 6 different cities in the UK. I lived in Scotland (Aberdeen) for 5 years, my missus is a Scot (Glasgow) and my best mate is a Scot (ex-FFL (the Scots and the French get on well - Auld Alliance and all that), explosives expert. I spend a lot of time in Scotland.
So let's contrast my experience of living here for almost 40 years against what you guys have read or your mate who happens to be Scottish (from where exactly)?
Let's start with "GUN OWNERSHIP, SUICIDE AND HOMICIDE:
AN INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVE"
Martin Killias
Conclusions
The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the
results of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first
International Crime Survey.31 Substantial correlations were found between gun
ownership and gun-related as well as total suicide and homicide rates. Widespread
gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events
committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other
potentially lethal instruments less often when more guns are available, but more
guns usually means more victims of suicide and homicide.
But then again, as one poster has pointed out, there are lies, damned lies and statistics, eh?
So let's go by experience. On civvie street, outside the gun clubs, I have never seen a live firearm in the possession of a citizen. I personally know of nobody who has ever shot or involved in any form of gun crime whatsoever (although I have a colourful spectrum of friends and associates including some, errrr, "handy" people).
@Turrican:
how can you live like that?
Easy - we have less gun crime in the UK, less murder. Let's look at those Interpol stats:
USA: Homicide per 100,000 - 5.70 Firearm Homicide - 3.72 Non-Gun Homicide - 1.98 3 % Households with Guns - 39.0
England / Wales: Homicide per 100,000 - 1.41 Firearm Homicide - 0.11 Non-Gun Homicide - 1.30 % Households with Guns - 4.7 (Yes you can legally own a firearm in the UK, but our licencing is tightly controlled (especially since Dunblaine))
Let me do the maths for you. You have:
8 times the murder rate
34 times the gun murder rate
1.5 times the non-gun murder rate
8.3 times the number of guns
and there's no relation between gun ownership and gun-homicide (at this point, it would be easy to crow, "How do you live like that?", but this time as a sentiment borne out of information) Please can you guys provide some reliable counterstatistics?
@Odd Job (Mr. I Don't Care About the Guns, Just Show Me The Money)
Unfortunately the majority of the populace have either bought into gun control
Mmmmm, funny that, isn't it? Then again, I have it on good authority from Dave who I met down the local bar, whose brother once went somewhere for 5 minutes that.... Then again, I was pissed at the time, but it must be true.
D'oh! Wrong!! Then again, Dave says.....
@JImbothefiveth
they have security cameras all over the place.
Someone's been doing some reading - you're dead right, I believe that the Londoner is the most filmed creature on the planet. It's crap, there's no defending it, it is having no serious impact on crime figures and thankfully, finally, councils are acting against it and having police cameras removed in their constituencies. It seems that cameras do nothing for the crime stats.
It's far more cost-effective than things like increased police patrols, and it's good for the economy, because you have people buying guns.
That's right, more people buying guns leads to less crime, doesn't it? Oh... hang on.... Ah well, so a few niggaz die, at least the gunshop owner gets a swanky car.
@RP88
that won't matter, because their statistics and our statistics are very comparable in terms of murder.
Yep, correct. Ummm, actually - sources please.
But, England's general crime rate exceeds our rate by a fair margin
RP m8, there are crimes and there are Crimes. I would much rather someone nicked my car than shot me in the face, I would much rather live in a place where there was a higher likelihood of someone nicking my car than in a place with a vastly (like a factor of 8) higher likelihood to someone blowing my brains out or stabbing me. And that's what you're mainly talking in the UK when it comes to crime in the UK exceeding crime in the US - car crime, you beat us hands down in all the juicy areas.
In order to provide a decent comparative analysis, you also have to understand the factors that go into a crime being recorded. Here's a good paper:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_/ai_19101764
....regardless about guns or what have you.
Priceless. Absolutely priceless.
@woodybrighton: *** are you talking about? Are you in the right discussion
@Everyone: He's not British, honestly people, he's FRENCH! Only a FRENCHMAN would talk such nonsense! That's a joke btw.)
@throdgrain: lol, couldn't have put it more succinctly.
MagnumDweeb: Dweeb, your mate is absolutely right. Scotland was a nice, quiet, peace loving nation until the Pakis, ******* and Chinks turned up on their boats and went and ruined everything. The Glaswegians, Aberdonians, Dundonians, etc never committed any crimes before that Koran-loving, un-Christian filth showed up and started killing the nice, red-haired folk (they can fly, you know!). Or could it be that Scotland has the second highest murder rate in Western Europe and yet less ethnic minority heads per capita than her neighbours? Nah, your power-lifting mate from the gym is right. I mean, he's Scottish.... Scotland has never been a violent, racist,
sectarian place, has it? Your mate's anti-what?
Then again, I'm a "very fragile, small looking [i.e. not "American"] folk"
Me, I'll keep the murder rates, the muggings, the violence if it means I get to keep my guns.
Oh, say! can you seeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Jesus H Christ. I'm going back to England now, thanks for the insight into modern America. I'm really pleased I found this place, will always remember (and often quote) it. It's been live a step into
Deliverance