Ultra Accurate .45 loads with Blue Dot

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Yea I suppose it's not so much the cartridge I wouldn't want to have to test in a gunfight I think it's the platform. Shooting under duress im nowhere near as proficient (Read:fast) with a single action revolver as I am with my EDC Glock. That plus capacity as well because I don't imagine a self defense scenario is always going to be stationary and if people are moving around and bullets are flying accuracy is going to be subpar. Basically I want all the advantages I can have in my corner should I ever have to use it.
6 shot .45 Colts were the law of the land for many many years so I don't doubt its abilities I just think there's better options so I leave it for what I feel it does best for me, namely target shooting and woods defense. Just like I would never bring my Glock 9mm with 124gr JHPs as a woods/bear defense gun haha. Everything has its purpose in my book. I have systems for everything lol.
 
Oh and also, I just bought a second .45-70 as well, so I have to get cracking on working some loads for that now. Glad I got my .45 Colt loads sorted. We just got some snow today and I was out shooting my Rossi carbine with my LilGun .45 Colt loads earlier along with some of these Blue Dot loads. Then I came in and ordered a new lever gun. Fun afternoon!
 
If you get bored with the .45-70 and want more power, you can always get a .458 Win Mag. Same thing for .45 Colt, which is why they make the .454 etc.
 
RealGun said:
But probably not according to Smith & Wesson. Their N-frame cylinder is reamed to the max for 45 caliber. The issue was mistakenly representing the load as "standard", i.e. suitable for any smokeless powder gun. There was no intent to make too big an issue of it, but there is always concern that reloading information could be misapplied, so words matter.
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RealGun,

You are so, so wrong. The Smith & Wesson Model 25-2 is rated by Smith & Wesson for .45 ACP +P ammo which has SAAMI pressure specs of 23k psi. Both are 45 caliber, with the only difference being one is chambered in .45 ACP and the other in .45 Colt. Do you think they put weaker cylinders in the .45 Colt?

Don
 
USSR said:
RealGun,

You are so, so wrong. The Smith & Wesson Model 25-2 is rated by Smith & Wesson for .45 ACP +P ammo which has SAAMI pressure specs of 23k psi. Both are 45 caliber, with the only difference being one is chambered in .45 ACP and the other in .45 Colt. Do you think they put weaker cylinders in the .45 Colt?

Don
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Yes, agreed, but that is not what Smith & Wesson would say, is it?
 
Someone should ask them hat PSI they rate the .45 ACP N Frame at. PSI is PSI.
 
Walkalong said:
Someone should ask them hat PSI they rate the .45 ACP N Frame at. PSI is PSI.
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Don't ask their lawyers or discount complying with the manual instructions.

I think that 45 ACP standard is a good guideline, however the throats are massive in a full sized cylinder, and surely few are hotloading the 45 ACP. We read more about how slow the bullets can go in a 1911 and still be accurate, even altering the springs to make cycling possible.
 
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Walkalong said:
If you get bored with the .45-70 and want more power, you can always get a .458 Win Mag. Same thing for .45 Colt, which is why they make the .454 etc.
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I've considered buying a .454 Casull but honestly I'm happy with my LilGun loads in .45 Colt for now. My Ruger has been eating these for a few years now and it's about all the power I have use for in a revolver at the moment. I won't list the exact load but it's straight from Noslers manual and pushes a 250 at 1230fps average from my 5.5". I also load a 325gr at over 1100fps in standard .45 Colt cases that has proven to be an excellent woods load, so for my needs anything bigger would just be a toy. As for the .458 Win mag, I don't really NEED anything chambered for that either but I would certainly enjoy it I'm sure. I built an AR in .458 Socom and it's a fun shooter, and I also enjoy shooting my BLR in .338 Win Mag, so I think 500gr solids from a .458 WM would be right up my alley haha.
 
I enjoy my .458 WM.

I have no wish for anything more powerful than .44 Mag in a Redhawk when it comes to handguns. Y'all can keep the .454's, .460's etc. :)
 
Rule3 said:
Why does every time this topic of 45 Colt come up, it is the same old stuff rehashed and beat to death? <snip>
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Because someone doesn't qualify or mistakenly represents what grade of 45 Colt load/gun capability they are talking about. There seems to always remain disagreement about what guns can shoot above SAAMI pressure level limits of 14k. Also, there is often discussion of loads that have no basis in pressure-tested data.
 
This is an interesting and fascinating thread and the .45 Colt is a long time favorite. My favorite load for a long time, now, is 18 grains of 2400 behind either my home cast 145 grain from a Saeco 4c mold or a 255 grain - actual weight is more like 260 to 265 grains - from a Lyman mold. From my OM 4.5" BH it gives 1060 fps. Even better is the 1250 fps it gives from my 7.5" OM BH. This load is flat out accurate and is my standard BlackHawk load; I use it for everything. But reading this thread has encouraged me to try Blue Dot. I have a .45Colt Trapper that has always fired Bullseye loads; but where's the Bullseye gone to?
 
To be sure our readers understand, the load Hanshi just posted:

18 grains of 2400 behind either my home cast 145 grain from a Saeco 4c mold or a 255 grain
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is a Ruger Only load.
 
Hanshi said:
This is an interesting and fascinating thread and the .45 Colt is a long time favorite. My favorite load for a long time, now, is 18 grains of 2400 behind either my home cast 145 grain from a Saeco 4c mold or a 255 grain - actual weight is more like 260 to 265 grains - from a Lyman mold. From my OM 4.5" BH it gives 1060 fps. Even better is the 1250 fps it gives from my 7.5" OM BH. This load is flat out accurate and is my standard BlackHawk load; I use it for everything. But reading this thread has encouraged me to try Blue Dot. I have a .45Colt Trapper that has always fired Bullseye loads; but where's the Bullseye gone to?
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Did you mean 245 grain rather than 145?
 
Walkalong said:
To be sure our readers understand, the load Hanshi just posted:



is a Ruger Only load.
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From the load sources I have, I think it is also an extrapolation from the midpoint of JHP data (Lyman). I would not hesitate to try it, but are we again talking about shared home brews here? The problem stems from our determination to use lead bullets (and save money). Published loads tend to stay well below 1000 fps, if they at all address 45 Colt loads above SAAMI specs ("Ruger only").
 
I also load ruger only loads only for my two rossi 92's in 45 colt!! my load is a 300gr jsp sierra bullet with 20.8gr h110 powder sounds like a cannon in these 16in barreled rifles and shoots super tight groups!! but I stress do not shoot these in colt or colt clones please!!!
 
USSR said:
Hard to believe that some guys haven't read what John Linebaugh has to say about the Smith & Wesson 25-5, and in particular the .45 Colt, but here he talks about both:http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12. I mean, this guy builds .45 Colts for a living.

Don
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"While the S&W will take these loads safely such loads will greatly shorten the life of your gun." - Linebaugh

Is their a reloading source for "S&W-only"?

There seem to be a number of guns, especially Smiths, that are "not meant for a steady diet of...".

When speaking to a gun manufacturer rep about a gun repair, best not to mention any hot loads you have been shooting in the gun.

In the N-frame I think of the 44 Magnum as a stronger gun because of significantly more material in the cylinder and thicker forcing cone/ barrel fitting. Although the 45 Colt at its max is lower in pressure than the 44 Magnum, requiring less strength from the gun, I doubt if a steady diet of full power 44 magnums in quantity is very common to support the argument that the cartridges are effectively equal in demands on the gun. I expect that the full capability of 44 Magnum will tend not to be tested, whereas hot loading the 45 Colt is less punishing to the shooter, beating up the gun without necessarily beating up the one firing it.
 
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RealGun said:
"While the S&W will take these loads safely such loads will greatly shorten the life of your gun." - Linebaugh
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The above quote is in reference to firing 32k psi Ruger-only loads, which both he and I do not recommend. As previously stated, the Model 25-2 is rated for 23k psi .45 ACP +P ammo, so stick with that pressure loads or less.

RealGun said:
Is their a reloading source for "S&W-only"?

There seem to be a number of guns, especially Smiths, that are "not meant for a steady diet of...".
Click to expand...

There are several sources of load data, you just have to do some digging. The aforementioned link by Rule3 (https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL 246partial.pdf) is one. Another one here lists load data for another revolver that just happens to share the Model 25's pressure limit of 23k psi, the Ruger New Vaquero:
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL_234_preview.pdf
Having shot deer with my Model 25, I can tell you that a heavy bullet in .45 caliber at 1000 - 1100fps does an amazing job on whatever it is aimed at. I find it to be a much better gun for deer than the .357 Magnum, even though it's velocity is less and it's calculated muzzle energy is also less.

Don
 
I would ask that you please refrain from coming up with accurate 45 Colt loads. I can only store so much powder in the house. I have been 6.5 grains of bullseye behind a 255 grain SWC or 10.6 grains of AA No 5.
 
USSR said:
Hard to believe that some guys haven't read what John Linebaugh has to say about the Smith & Wesson 25-5, and in particular the .45 Colt, but here he talks about both:http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12. I mean, this guy builds .45 Colts for a living.

Don
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I've always felt the S&W was just as stout as my Rugers but recently after this topic I emailed my serial numbers to both companies and asked what they are rated to handle. S&W states my serial # is rated to handle .45 ACP +P pressures or 23,000 psi. Ruger states my serial # is rated to handle 25,000psi. Both companies were not willing to offer ANY pressure information based on Model alone and required serial number identification. This would lend itself to the fact that it not only matters what model of revolver you are dealing with but also the build date of the revolver. Bottom line is, CHECK WItH THE MANUFACTURER and you will find out what is safe for YOUR particular gun.
Secondly, I forget who but one or two were saying Blue Dot is this horribly dirty or hard to work with powder. I don't feel this is the case at all. My empty brass cleans up fine in one cycle, it always extracts fine, accuracy is superb for MY style of shooting and what I'm doing with the cartridges. I did mention I can get about the same groups with an old standby load of Unique, however this Blue Dot load is over 100fps faster and I like velocity. I shoot this load primarily out of an R92 lever gun, but made the article because testing in my 4" Smith proved so accurate. It's not the be all end all of .45 loads, but it's fun and perfectly within the limits of my firearms.
 
USSR said:
The above quote is in reference to firing 32k psi Ruger-only loads, which both he and I do not recommend. As previously stated, the Model 25-2 is rated for 23k psi .45 ACP +P ammo, so stick with that pressure loads or less.



There are several sources of load data, you just have to do some digging. The aforementioned link by Rule3 (https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL 246partial.pdf) is one. Another one here lists load data for another revolver that just happens to share the Model 25's pressure limit of 23k psi, the Ruger New Vaquero:
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL_234_preview.pdf
Having shot deer with my Model 25, I can tell you that a heavy bullet in .45 caliber at 1000 - 1100fps does an amazing job on whatever it is aimed at. I find it to be a much better gun for deer than the .357 Magnum, even though it's velocity is less and it's calculated muzzle energy is also less.

Don
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I also have to aggree with this ^^.
While I've hunted with a few guys who use .357 Lever guns for white tail with good success, I too feel the .45 Colt is a better deer cartridge. Velocity isn't everything, and this is coming from a 100% self admitted velocity geek. The weight of the bullet, shape of the bullet, size of the bullet etc all play integral roles in what a projectile does when it enters a specific type of media. In my experience over the years, even a typical standard pressure 250-260gr .45 Colt load fired from a revolver at 850fps is just as effective as a much faster 158gr .357 mag load from a carbine. (Effectiveness in this instance judged by broad side shoulder shots made by both platforms and the fact that the .45 caused near instant fatality vs .357 animal being tracked 70-75yd)
Take that same standard .45 Colt load and toss it in a carbine and it just extends the range that it is effective by a good margin. My typical hunting load with the R92 carbine though is a Nosler JHP around 1400fps from the R92. It can go much faster but I like the performance at this load speed. For a woods/bear Defense load, I load 325gr hard cast around 1100fps from a 5.5" Ruger. The Blue Dot load for me is only target fodder, although with the velocity and accuracy being what it is My 255 BD load should do the job nicely as well, I've just never tried.
 
DeadEye9 said:
I've always felt the S&W was just as stout as my Rugers but recently after this topic I emailed my serial numbers to both companies and asked what they are rated to handle. S&W states my serial # is rated to handle .45 ACP +P pressures or 23,000 psi. Ruger states my serial # is rated to handle 25,000psi. Both companies were not willing to offer ANY pressure information based on Model alone and required serial number identification. This would lend itself to the fact that it not only matters what model of revolver you are dealing with but also the build date of the revolver. Bottom line is, CHECK WItH THE MANUFACTURER and you will find out what is safe for YOUR particular gun.
Secondly, I forget who but one or two were saying Blue Dot is this horribly dirty or hard to work with powder. I don't feel this is the case at all. My empty brass cleans up fine in one cycle, it always extracts fine, accuracy is superb for MY style of shooting and what I'm doing with the cartridges. I did mention I can get about the same groups with an old standby load of Unique, however this Blue Dot load is over 100fps faster and I like velocity. I shoot this load primarily out of an R92 lever gun, but made the article because testing in my 4" Smith proved so accurate. It's not the be all end all of .45 loads, but it's fun and perfectly within the limits of my firearms.
Click to expand...

That was I, I confess! I think of it as Uniques Big Brother:)

Blue Dot works fine at near or max loads. Lighter loads tend to get spiky pressure. and leave particles around. I am not a clean/dirty powder kinda guy. I clean my guns no matter what. Most of my guns are stainless and regardless they always look dirty!

I use BD in max 357 loads and some 10mm loads, That said I still think there are better powders out there but that's why there are so many. Everyone has their preference,

Back to the 45 Colt. JMO but I like HP38 and Unique It's a SW M 25 MT Gun. If I want more power Scotty I load up the 44 Mag. Had a 460 SW but that was insane and there are no more Water Buffalo around so I have no use for it!:)
 
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