Ultra Accurate .45 loads with Blue Dot

[DeadEye9]

ok so I've been experimenting a lot lately with .45 Colt and recently came up with my most accurate load yet using Blue Dot.
Disclaimer: This load is over MAX for black powder/single action .45 Colt frames and should not be used in these firearms. For modern revolvers, lever guns etc this is a powder puff load and is on the lower end of my book loads, but I wanted to make it clear this is NOT a load for Colt SAA or anything similar.


Federal brass was used along with CCI standard large pistol primers.
Charge was 13gr Blue Dot under a 255 LSWC. From my S&W model 25 it hits around 980fps and is SUPER accurate. Shot from a rest we were getting ~1.5"-1.7" groups at 50yds all afternoon. I loaded these to 1.590".

Just wanted to share this load to any other .45 Colt fans who may not have tried Blue dot. Typically I use LiLGun and 2400 for my .45 LC loads but lately I've been working on a good standard pressure load that would make a decent woods load and be very accurate for target shooting. This my friends is that load. Jumping up to 13.5gr yeilded about 25 more fps but accuracy didn't get any better, so im calling 13gr of Blue Dot the winner. Recoil is mild and very pleasant to shoot. Feels The same as American Eagle 250gr semi-jacketed factory loads to put it in perspective. Best of all both my S&W and my Ruger love this load, not just one or the other. Also, other shooters who were with me on this test outing also shot the best with this load vs a few others we ran.

 

[Don McDowell]

Alliant lists 12.9 gr. of bludot for saami spec 45 colt loads with a 250 gr bullet. I've been shooting 12 gr. in my 45's for a very long time. I like the accuracy, but the amazing thing is the velocity that bludot gives at that pressure level. 1000 fps at saami spec. pressure from a 5.5 inch revolver barrel, and a twitch over 1200 from a Winchester trapper.

 

[midland man]

I cast a 250gr bullet out of a old single cavity mold lyman part# 454 190 and I lube it with lee alox and size with a lee sizer die to .457 then I relube then again with the lee alox and after they dry I load these with 6.8gr greendot and both my heritage big bore revolvers and my two rossi 92's love this load it is super accurate! so if you ever get some greendot give this a try!! the 45 colt is my favorite to load and shoot!

 

[DeadEye9]

Good to hear, haven't tried Green yet either so I will certainly have to give that a shot as well. Prior to this my most accurate loads were developed with HP38(W231). The velocity from the Blue Dot load is very good for a low pressure load;. Great numbers Don; im getting just under 1000fps speeds from a 4" barrel with the 13gr load. Haven't chrono'd them from the 5.5" or lever gun yet but the accuracy was what blew me away. This load tightened my distance groups almost half an inch from the best I had shot with previous loads so I was thoroughly impressed.

 

[Don McDowell]

I get the best accuracy from bludot and unique, but the velocity of the bludot is just a real eye opener,

 

[RealGun]

At a bit over Alliant's max for 250 gr, I don't think this should be represented as "standard load" or "low pressure load" at 255 gr.

 

[Don McDowell]

Alliants web data shows 12.9 with a 250 gr bullet.

 

[RealGun]

Alliants web data shows 12.9 with a 250 gr bullet.

13.0 gr is more than that and significant with a 5 grain heavier bullet (255). Might be okay, but it is "over" max.

 

[DeadEye9]

Most of my load manuals have two sections for .45 Colt; one for "weak actions" and one for "strong actions". While this load is a tenth over what Alliant shows, it is at the starting end of any of the loads in my manuals for "strong actions". Hence why I specified this is not a load for a Colt SAA or similar platforms.

 

[DeadEye9]

13.0 gr is more than that and significant with a 5 grain heavier bullet (255). Might be okay, but it is "over" max.

Also I'm quite sure you would likely get the exact same accuracy and within 10-12fps the same velocity with 12.9 vs the 13 I mentioned. If you want the load edited to reflect 12.9 vs 13 I surely don't have a problem with that, but adjusting my throw for a tenth didn't seem easily doable or worthwhile. My ladder went from 12.8 to 13.0, with 13 being my favorite of the group I tested. The info Alliant lists on there website is in 12.9, but that is the only charge they list with no mention of whether it is a starting charge, a max charge, their most accurate charge or just some Alliant staff members favorite load. They essentially state "this is our charge, try starting 10% below and have fun". IMHO their shared online data leaves a lot to be desired compared to majority of the other resources available.

 

[RealGun]

Also I'm quite sure you would likely get the exact same accuracy and within 10-12fps the same velocity with 12.9 vs the 13 I mentioned. If you want the load edited to reflect 12.9 vs 13 I surely don't have a problem with that, but adjusting my throw for a tenth didn't seem easily doable or worthwhile. My ladder went from 12.8 to 13.0, with 13 being my favorite of the group I tested. The info Alliant lists on there website is in 12.9, but that is the only charge they list with no mention of whether it is a starting charge, a max charge, their most accurate charge or just some Alliant staff members favorite load. They essentially state "this is our charge, try starting 10% below and have fun". IMHO their shared online data leaves a lot to be desired compared to majority of the other resources available.

I was talking about semantics more than numbers. A "standard " load should be okay in a modern SAA, while your load may be ill advised.

I thought we were pretty clear that if load data only provided one number, you did not go over that, only lower. After that, you are on your own and obliged to have some method for measuring pressure to be safe with it.

I like your report though and am interested in doing something similar for a NM Vaquero that can handle the mid level loads of the 45 Colt.

 

[the Black Spot]

10.5 gr of blue dot with a 250 gr wadcutter shoots real well out of my uberti saa 45 colt

Thanks for posting the accurate load for the smith

 

[DeadEye9]

I only have one Colt SA in my collection and it is an original single screw "black powder" frame Peacemaker. It's one of my most prized handguns so it doesn't get fired much, and when it does it only sees 3F. All my other platforms for .45 Colt are more modern and consist of a 5.5" Blackhawk, a 4" S&W model 25, and a Rossi R92 lever gun. Because of this I am admittedly a bit naive to what most people shoot in their smokeless Colt SA's and similar replicas. I Apologize for the "standard/low pressure" nomenclature as it seems for those types of .45 Colt fans this would not be a great load therefore making it not truly a standard.

 

[Walkalong]

For anyone loading over standard (14,000 PSI) .45 Colt pressures, please research what guns can handle what pressures in the caliber, make an informed decision about what your gun can handle, and decide how much risk you are willing to take.

Here is an interesting post on differing pressure levels in .45 Colt. We have a number of members who load to pressures over 14,000 PSI for certain guns, and we have had some good threads on the subject. I had some saved under "subscriptions" in the old system, but can't find them anymore. I used to load over standard .45 Colt loads when I had a couple of Rugers that could handle them. Be sure they don't get in revolvers that can't handle them.

 

[Don McDowell]

I always get nervous when I hear about folks shooting old Colts with smokeless, I read someplace that Colt didn't warranty their SAA for smokeless until 1909.

 

[USSR]

I would just like to reiterate once again, when dealing with the .45 Colt, the platform that the ammo is going to be used in is everything. Since the OP stated that the load was to be for a S&W Model 25, that raises the bar to at least 23k psi, far above the 14k psi SAAMI pressure specs.

Don

 

[RealGun]

I would just like to reiterate once again, when dealing with the .45 Colt, the platform that the ammo is going to be used in is everything. Since the OP stated that the load was to be for a S&W Model 25, that raises the bar to at least 23k psi, far above the 14k psi SAAMI pressure specs.

Don

But probably not according to Smith & Wesson. Their N-frame cylinder is reamed to the max for 45 caliber. The issue was mistakenly representing the load as "standard", i.e. suitable for any smokeless powder gun. There was no intent to make too big an issue of it, but there is always concern that reloading information could be misapplied, so words matter.

 

[RealGun]

I don't know where I got the load, and have looked everywhere, but 13.0 gr of True Blue stuck 6 cases in my Redhawk, loud as all get out. That approaches a double charge but certainly not my intent. Now I wonder if I didn't mistake the load for the other "blue" in Blue Dot. Will give that a try in my sturdy 5.5" Redhawk (discontinued), which at some point in its life was ported.

 

[DeadEye9]

Wow yea 13gr of True Blue is a much different load than 13gr Blue Dot. I'm actually glad this has turned into a larger discussion, I always like when it does haha. As for the original Colt SA, they switched away from a single screw frame around serial 165,000, which is when they are usually considered "smokeless frames". This was in the mid 1890s, however Colt didn't actually specify them to be smokeless frames untill just before 1900, around serial number 180,000. The only Colt SA I have is in the 149,xxx serial range and never sees anything except a 250gr cast lead atop Swiss 3F on the rare occasions I do fire it. In my Rugers and my Rossi I typically use a hot charge of LilGun making insane velocities because that's what I like. I won't list the charge because it's very stout, but it's still a book load from the Nosler manual's section for strong action .45 Colt. I load these in nickel plated cases and this is the only .45 colt load that sees those cases, so it's easy for me as a user to differentiate. I also never load my standard .45 Colt and my LiLGun loads at the same time. As Walk suggested, before I began even loading for these guns though I did a TON of research, contacted the manufacturers and did multiple ladder tests with every powder/bullet I tried.

 

[Don McDowell]

Over the last 50 years , I've done an awful lot with handguns, from the data in Speer #8 for the 45 colt, to some stuff I've extrapolated. Thru all that the old standby load of 9 grs. of unique that's been around forever, is about as good as it gets, until you try the Alliant bludot data, then you find the accuracy of the unique load with just a bit more zip than the unique load, and if you shoot a rifle the blunt load will gain appreciably.
Quite frankly if a 250-260 gr bullet trotting along between 850 and 1000 fps won't get the job done, you probably get what you deserve for not bringing a rifle along.

 

[DeadEye9]

Over the last 50 years , I've done an awful lot with handguns, from the data in Speer #8 for the 45 colt, to some stuff I've extrapolated. Thru all that the old standby load of 9 grs. of unique that's been around forever, is about as good as it gets, until you try the Alliant bludot data, then you find the accuracy of the unique load with just a bit more zip than the unique load, and if you shoot a rifle the blunt load will gain appreciably.
Quite frankly if a 250-260 gr bullet trotting along between 850 and 1000 fps won't get the job done, you probably get what you deserve for not bringing a rifle along.

Totally aggree with you, for hunting. For defensive purposes against 2 legged predators though I have to disagree. While there's no doubt 250gr lead at 850+fps. COULD indeed get the job done, there are much better options for the .45 Colt for this purpose. You just don't benefit from 30+ inches of straight line penetration for anti personnel use. For this you want something that is going to rapidly dump its energy into the target, and not spend it traveling through and beyond the target. In the woods a nice bloody exit wound helps you track your game. On the street or in your home however that type of penetration puts anyone else around you at risk. You are also in effect wasting part of the energy of the cartridge because again it's being spent outside of the target you wish to stop. For SD/HD purposes with the .45 Colt I like an expanding bullet, generally traveling faster though not ALWAYS faster. I want enough penetration to get through clothing and reach vitals and that's it, along with as massive a wound cavity as I can get. I don't want to poke holes, I want to destroy internal tissue, organs, vessels etc in order to stop whatever that person was doing that had me in danger in the first place. For this purpose I like a few different loads. As far as factory stuff, the Gold Dot and PDX1 are excellent performers that can be used in almost any .45 Colt. These are standard pressure loads that are on part with any defensive service load as far as performance. Remington's HTP 230gr and Hornady 185gr Critical Defense are good "runners up", but they didn't perform as concistently in my own testing as the GD and PDX loads. For hand loaded defensive fodder, I like a hefty charge of LilGun behind either a 250gr SWCHP or 225gr JHP reaching around 1150-1200 from a pistol and 1500ish from a lever gun. (Hand loading defensive ammo is a controversial subject because of the court system but I have yet to find a documented case of someone being convicted for a defensive shooting solely because they loaded their own SD ammo)
I guess this all goes back to preference though, but I've seen first hand the wounds that solid lead and FMJ generally create vs wounds created by expanding and/or fragmenting projectiles and it is a huge difference. I don't want to be struck by ANY projectiles, but if I had to choose I would much rather an assailant shoot me with a solid than a modern JHP.
Oh and lastly, they did get it right with Unique long ago for large revolver cartridges and I still currently load Elmer Keith's .44 load with Unique on a regular basis, however in my Model 25 the aforementioned Blue Dot load was significantly more accurate than any load I've ever developed with Unique for that pistol. My Ruger seems to shoot both the BD loads and Unique loads about the same, but the smith favors the BD load; shrinking groups by about 1/4"-1/3" at 50yd vs the Unique loads.

 

[Don McDowell]

I have a doctor friend that ran a trauma center not far from a major metropolitan area where things get a little wild on the weekends. He said that if someone came off the ambulance center punched with 9mm etc , they could usually send them home at some point, but when they came in center punched with a 45 acp, the coroner's office was almost always the next stop..

 

[RealGun]

Over the last 50 years , I've done an awful lot with handguns, from the data in Speer #8 for the 45 colt, to some stuff I've extrapolated. Thru all that the old standby load of 9 grs. of unique that's been around forever, is about as good as it gets, until you try the Alliant bludot data, then you find the accuracy of the unique load with just a bit more zip than the unique load, and if you shoot a rifle the blunt load will gain appreciably.
Quite frankly if a 250-260 gr bullet trotting along between 850 and 1000 fps won't get the job done, you probably get what you deserve for not bringing a rifle along.

I could hunt with my heavy load guns in theory, but I just enjoy having the experience of shooting them and trying to hit the spot I was aiming at. Next up for the Redhawk 5.5" is 21.7 gr IMR4227 and 265 gr WFNGC by Cast Performance.

 

[DeadEye9]

It's much more projectile dependent than caliber dependent. Im totally fine with a 9mm and modern expanding bullets like the HST and Gold Dot.
I study medical reports on GSW's by the dozen, and there are a ton of instances of people shot with large calibers such as .357 mag, .44 mag, .45 etc that are not suffering from any damage other than blood loss from their wounds. These people are largely self admitted arriving in private cars, often times even driving themselves. These almost always are reports where the projectile has exited, or when one was found was not deformed or mishapen. There really isn't much of a difference between common handgun calibers and the wounds they cause, but there is a huge different between a JHP and a FMJ and the damage they cause in a given caliber. Majority of the fatal reports have autopsy reports accompany them showing expanded projectiles lodged in various parts of the body. There are very few fatal reports where the wound was a pass through. So overall Bore size on the large scale of things doesn't matter much for a handgun. What seems to matter most is what that bullet hits and what it does when it hits it. Even a straight through slug to the heart may be fatal in time, but allow the attacker to still be fighting/shooting at you for a period of time before they die. Take that same heart shot and make it a bullet that is jagged and cutting due to expanding and destroying tissue while dumping its energy and you are much more likely to instantly cause a stoppage. If I was limited to ball ammo I would certainly want a .45, because I want the biggest hole possible. But since I can use any ammo I chose, my carry is a simple Glock 19 with 124gr HST. I know what it does, and I know what I can do with the low recoiling 9mm even under extreme stress, so that's my go to carry. However in the woods and mountain trips I go with a large Bore revolver and cast solids because that's when i do want ultra deep straight line penetration. For that purpose you really can't beat solid lead like you said at 1000Fps or more. That's why I love .45 Colt, plus it's just fun to shoot. And when I am in the mountains, if my .45-70 or .338 Win Mag is back at the camp site and I encounter Mr Grizz on a hike, my Model 25 or my BLackhawk loaded with 325gr Hard casts is as good a companion as any in my opinion!

 

[Walkalong]

Totally aggree with you, for hunting. For defensive purposes against 2 legged predators though I have to disagree

The Unique load would be all you need for two legged critters. 250/255 Gr bullets at 850 FPS will shoot (plow) right through them if they don't have armor. If they do, you want a rifle.