Unintentional mag release/ Walther PPQ m2 5" brl

[buddhas]

I have been fighting unintentional mag release for about 2 months with my new PPQ. I have hesitated to contact Walther about this because it is a new gun. I thought it might resolve itself - 600 rds thru it. I have been careful about hand placement, still no improvement.
As the situation now stands, This is a very dangerous firearm to shoot in its current form
Has any one else had this happen to them with their new PPQ ?

 

[Water-Man]

I've only heard it happen with a 'straight thumbs' hold, and only on occasion.

 

[Sour Kraut]

I've read in other forums (although not recently) of mag release issues on early models. There was a "test" you could perform on the mag release to determine if your particular gun was problematic. Press and release without a mag inserted and see if the button springs all the way out or tends to not fully rebound.....something like that.

Hope that helps....

 

[ATLDave]

This is a very dangerous firearm to shoot in its current form

??? The mag releasing makes it "dangerous to shoot"? How?

Do you mean that this propensity makes it dangerous to rely on?

 

[mgmorden]

Describe a little more what's happening. If the mag is just popping out under recoil then yeah, there's a problem.

If your grip is causing you to hit the mag release unintentionally then it's your grip that's at fault, not the gun.

 

[9mmepiphany]

May we see a picture of your normal grip showing the placement of your thumbs?

How often is the magazine unintentionally releasing?

I have a friend who shot a PPQ in competition last year and he didn't have any problems with the magazine release. I onlly put a couple of mags through it, but didn't encounter any issues either

 

[russianbear]

If one reads the Walther forum,you will find people who are having this same problem.
And many are selling their M2 and buying the M1 that has the lever Mag drop.

 

[Sour Kraut]

Weak mag release spring was an issue at one time......search the Walther Forum and you will find it discussed in detail.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If one reads the Walther forum,you will find people who are having this same problem.
And many are selling their M2 and buying the M1 that has the lever Mag drop.

I have to retract my earlier post...we were shooting a M1 and not the M2.

I've never understood why folks would prefer the button release as opposed to the lever release if both were available. The only accommodation I could ever see it addressing was for shooters with shorter fingers

 

[buddhas]

Unintentional mag release/ PPQ m2

Thumbs forward grip. Release about every 3 mags.Four factory mags in use.Not difficult to shoot but not a very confident situation.
I'll give it abit more time and then talk to Walther.

Thanks for the comments

 

[Yotecallr]

I switched the mag button to the other side as it's a range gun now.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Sometimes the Makarov PM (which I carry) is criticized for having a bottom mounted heel release magazine lever. Well it is just these kinds of situations that can make that a benefit. It is virtually impossible to release a Makarov magazine by accident. The Soviets specifically requested this as they had some problems with the earlier Tokarev dropping magazines on accident.

As for the Walther, I'd contact customer service IF it isn't your own grip at fault. If it is your grip that is causing the issue, and you can't seem to overcome it, it might be time for a different gun. An unintentional mag drop is a seriously bad thing for a carry weapon.

 

[Browning]

I had a problem with a Walther PPS M2.

It was because not only was I accidentally hitting the mag release with my right thumb but because it had a very weak mag release spring.

I sent it back to Walther, they confirmed and repaired it and then sent it back. I sold it to a buddy with full disclosure and went back to a Walther PPS M1 for pocket carry when I wanted to get a gallon of milk at the corner store.

Mine was a PPS though, not a PPQ. Kind of weird though.

 

[Redcoat3340]

I had the same problem with a PPX....thumbs forward and just often enough to be annoying I'd pop the mag. I solved the problem by selling it and buying a Sig 2022.

 

[railroader]

My PPX would drop mags too when I shot thumbs forward. The palm of my support hand would hit the mag release. I called walther and they sent me a new stronger spring to install. The gun works fine now.

 

[red rick]

Put some pool stick chalk on the catch and see if you are hitting it when you are shooting .

 

[armarsh]

I have been fighting unintentional mag release for about 2 months with my new PPQ. I have hesitated to contact Walther about this because it is a new gun. I thought it might resolve itself - 600 rds thru it. I have been careful about hand placement, still no improvement.
As the situation now stands, This is a very dangerous firearm to shoot in its current form
Has any one else had this happen to them with their new PPQ ?

I prefer using my fingers to release the mag so I put my button on the "wrong" side.

 

[azrocks]

I have to retract my earlier post...we were shooting a M1 and not the M2.

I've never understood why folks would prefer the button release as opposed to the lever release if both were available. The only accommodation I could ever see it addressing was for shooters with shorter fingers

I GREATLY prefer the trigger-guard release of the M1. But if you want your training to apply to more than just one handgun, this non-standard release can be highly problematic. At least it is for me. With relatively little time behind the trigger of an M1, the mag release has become second nature, which means every time I pick up anything else and try to drop a mag, my finger goes straight to the trigger guard. It's so intuitive and natural that it's messed me up with anything else!

 

[Fishbed77]

This right proves by itself why the paddle release of the P99 and PPQ Classic is a superior design.

I GREATLY prefer the trigger-guard release of the M1. But if you want your training to apply to more than just one handgun, this non-standard release can be highly problematic

Not really. If you can train yourself to use your index finger to release the mag of an AR-15, you can do the same with a handgun.



.

 

[azrocks]

Not really. If you can train yourself to use your index finger to release the mag of an AR-15, you can do the same with a handgun.
.

It isn't a matter of training. It's a matter of practice and muscle memory. It's the entire reason practiced repetition works. When you perform an action over & over again with any tool - a handgun in this case - then when you pick up that tool, **particularly in a state of extreme stress**, you're going to do with it what you've practiced to do. Not what you've trained to do, or been shown to do, or know in your head is the right thing to do, but what you've done the most.

So if you routinely practice with a paddle-mag-release handgun, only to someday find yourself in a situation where you need to perform a mag change with someone shooting back at you, you better hope the gun in your hand has a paddle-mag-release too. Because if it doesn't, chances are good you're going to be finger-stroking the air a second or three before you realize nothing's happening and are forced to look down to figure out why your trained instinct is wrong.

 

[ny32182]

So is there something functionally wrong with the button, or is your grip inadvertently activating it? For now I'm assuming the later.

The single most important attribute of a handgun IMO is how it fits you ergonomically, and one size doesn't fit all. Unless your grip is just horribly wrong and needs a major overhaul anyway, I wouldn't waste time trying to force-fit a gun that is not a good ergonomic fit for you. There are a lot of fish in the sea and chances are, the easiest and best solution is to find another platform that fits your hand and grip better.

 

[azrocks]

So is there something functionally wrong with the button, or is your grip inadvertently activating it? For now I'm assuming the later.

The single most important attribute of a handgun IMO is how it fits you ergonomically, and one size doesn't fit all. Unless your grip is just horribly wrong and needs a major overhaul anyway, I wouldn't waste time trying to force-fit a gun that is not a good ergonomic fit for you. There are a lot of fish in the sea and chances are, the easiest and best solution is to find another platform that fits your hand and grip better.

It's really good to hear you saying this, because I know you know your stuff, and it confirms what I've always believed to be the case.

 

[Fishbed77]

It isn't a matter of training. It's a matter of practice and muscle memory. It's the entire reason practiced repetition works. When you perform an action over & over again with any tool - a handgun in this case - then when you pick up that tool, **particularly in a state of extreme stress**, you're going to do with it what you've practiced to do. Not what you've trained to do, or been shown to do, or know in your head is the right thing to do, but what you've done the most.

Thank you for repeating exactly what I said. It's a matter of training (practice) to develop muscle memory.

So if you routinely practice with a paddle-mag-release handgun, only to someday find yourself in a situation where you need to perform a mag change with someone shooting back at you, you better hope the gun in your hand has a paddle-mag-release too. Because if it doesn't, chances are good you're going to be finger-stroking the air a second or three before you realize nothing's happening and are forced to look down to figure out why your trained instinct is wrong.

This is somewhat akin to saying if your primary transportation is a horse, but need to hop in a car for transportation, you better hope that car controls just like a horse. The fact is that it is quite possible to train and develop muscle memory for one, the other, or both. For example, just about every small arms in the US military arsenal has a slightly different battery of arms and controls, but soldiers seem to manage just fine with training.

 

[azrocks]

This is somewhat akin to saying if your primary transportation is a horse, but need to hop in a car for transportation, you better hope that car controls just like a horse. The fact is that it is quite possible to train and develop muscle memory for one, the other, or both. For example, just about every small arms in the US military arsenal has a slightly different battery of arms and controls, but soldiers seem to manage just fine with training.

Your analogy is yet another attempt to oversimplify an issue that isn't that simple.

First you started out making the comparison between a rifle and a handgun. Now it's a horse & a car. But what we're talking about is a handgun and... another handgun. The idea that it's no big deal to switch back & forth between handguns and automatically manipulate two entirely different magazine-release mechanisms properly & efficiently, every single time, WITH PEOPLE SHOOTING AT YOU, is straight-up naïve.

As for our soldiers, they make mistakes all the time. Not with weapons that are similar in every respect but one. But with weapons they've trained with and carried since basic. They fail to remove safeties, they accidentally drop mags during engagements, they fail to clear simple jams they've cleared 100 times in practice, they keep pulling the trigger on dry guns, etc, etc, etc. Once again, it has a lot to do WITH PEOPLE SHOOTING AT YOU.

You believe what you want. I'm sure you can switch back & forth between a paddle-release & a button release just fine in front of paper targets.