University of North Carolina Student Body President Shot and Killed.

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Well, George... That was awfully full of bluster. And what is all that big sig of yours accomplishing?

Sad truth is that we don't know the whole stories, but IMHO, there's a good chance that future attacks on young women on/near campuses could be deterred if there was a possibility that their attackers could become victims of lead poisoning. All it takes is 1% of the population...

I'm guessing you're not one of that 1%.
 
Not sure what your personal attack is about, bluster? Which part? The facts are simple, she is dead, she either had no gun to defend herself or had a gun and didn't know how to use it. These are facts. Other facts are that too many people rely on others for their safety yet continue to do stupid things and then wonder why or how they get into trouble. The victims family then make a big haloo on the media about bad guns and bad people and the need for more gun control. These victims want to turn the rest of us into victims, their philosophy is "We don't carry guns, neither should you."

As for being in the 1%, I don't know how I will react as a citizen. I suppose it depends on the scenerio unfolding before me and whether my intervention will be helpful or not. In today's confrontational world, the ease of going from one level of hostility to the next is quick and going from a simple case of assault to a case of manslaughter could be no more than a few seconds. As a former cop, I have had to spend thousands in my defense because my union said that it was a borderline case and they would reimburse me if I was found innocent. In the end I was given a reprimand and so also lost the unions money. So bogie, yes, I do think twice before committing today, and if it is your wife or daughter, you better teach them that it is a coin toss if someone is going to go bat for them so you better teach them to carry a bat themselves, this isn't being anti social, this is being more truthful than most probably yourself included, are willing to accept. She was an intelligent woman, she chose to be unarmed at night outside, facts as we know them right now.

As for my signature, I owe you no explanation. If you weren't being hostile, my apologies.
 
Most people, if told that they are committing a crime or a rules violation that can get them thrown out of school, will not carry.

The girl in NC was 22... Old enough to carry in most states. The girl in Alabama was 18. But BOTH could have benefited from the deterrence factor.

We need to get that changed. You can tell everyone over and over about how you and yours carry 24/7 and that you feel that you'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six, and all the other overused tripe, but when it gets down to it, we -really- need to change the laws and the policies, so that the 1% who will get permits and carry can deter the criminal elements.

As it was, the poor girl probably had never been taught any better. And you're blaming her. She was ignorant. Not stupid. Not her fault.

Put the bitter attitude in a box. Be pragmatic.

I live here. Ain't from here. From Kentucky. And I been to see the elephant too, so get off it.
 
She was Pre-Med, she was also President of the student body, I would say she was smart enough to know how to make choices. In most cases, victims become so through bad choices, not lack of intelligence, but poor use of same ( "My information is she was an extraordinarily busy woman and it wasn't unusual for her to go to the office in the middle of the night," Curran said. "But we don't know that's what she was doing." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23504235/?GT1=43001).
I stand by what I said. I also believe that all the letters I write do much less than each and every one of these crimes in bringing more people on our side. The louder the antis get, the more frustrated they really are. For every liberal that screams anti gun slogans, I will show you another liberal that is a closet gun owner. Most of the liberals aren't stupid, they see the picture as well as we do. If the Dems take the White House, it will not be because of Abortions Rights or Gun Control, it will be over the Economy, the war in Iraq and the Domestic Spying and unfortunately, I am with them on all three, so imagine my dilemma come November. And do me a favor, stop psycho-analyzing me with your "Lucy from Peanuts" brand Psychiatry, and which Elephant are you referring too? And I didn't get my CCW to be a hero, I got it because I am unfortunately a law-abiding citizen that chose to carry a concealed weapon in the hopes that I would never need it, not in order to seek to protect others, I did that once, am unwilling to do so ACTIVELY anymore, but would protect another if I was certain of the position I was taking, too often one sees the need to intervene and then two seconds later the two sides kiss and make up, what are you going to tell the court, you're sorry that you assumed wrong? In a simple case of s/he's getting murdered in front of my eyes and I can testify clearly and logically and pass the test of what is called in court "What would the average person have done," then yes I would protect someone.
We have had this type of discussion last week over a different shooting, and all I can say is what I said, "What type of shooting will our nation debate over next week, another Wendy's, a mall or something different?" Well, this one was different alright, perhaps random, perhaps a gang initiation, perhaps a pissed off wife who suspected her of being her husbands other woman. Regardless of why it happened, she, and we, should all know there is no such thing as a neighborhood where crime doesn't happen, even in the richest, securest gated communities it happens or can happen, and my argument stands that people need to take personal responsibility for their actions and to think what will happen if Mr. Bogie won't miraculously happen by to save my @ss? Is it me you are attacking or the reality of life?
It's 00:30 and I'm done arguing with you.
 
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Everyone makes their own choices, she made hers and paid the price.
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At http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23504235/?GT1=43001 it says:
"My information is she was an extraordinarily busy woman and it wasn't unusual for her to go to the office in the middle of the night," Curran said. "But we don't know that's what she was doing."

She stayed home, roommates went out
Carson was last seen alive 1:30 a.m. Wednesday, when she stayed behind at home to do schoolwork while her roommates went out.
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Sounds like she was a busy person as a student president. Also, what's "the office"? Was that a student body office? If so, she may not have been allowed to carry when going to campus if that's where the office was. She may not have been allowed to carry in the housing that her and other students lived in. When you're heading to a place that you're not allowed to carry or live in a place like that, it makes it less likely to carry when you're traveling through the other areas, if that's what was going on.
 
Chalk this one up to the victim's stupidity, I'm afraid. :( Maybe things have changed from my basis of knowledge, but per my understanding, Chapel Hill can be pretty rough in spots during the daytime, never mind at night.

Which isn't to say "it was her fault". There's a lot more here we've not heard. It's unfortunate that she wasn't armed, as that may have helped prevent it. And it's likely that, regardless of whether the other person was armed, this still would've happened (albeit, with some other weapon), as long as she wasn't armed. (This would be one of those rare times where I would agree that it is sometimes unfortunate that men are stronger than women.)

Though, the possibility that her vehicle was moved after her death is certainly suspicious. that definately leads me to think there's "something more" here.
 
but per my understanding, Chapel Hill can be pretty rough in spots during the daytime, never mind at night.
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Your understanding is way off. I live in Chapel Hill and there are very, very few places where I wouldn't walk at night. The neighborhood where she died is very safe, in general. Whoever informed you about Chapel Hill must have been thinking about Durham, which is a crime-riddled hellhole.
 
Did you go to college? Thinking kids aren't gonna stay out late sometimes is pretty silly.

This town has a low crime rate and the neighborhood where she was killed is particularly safe in general. I would not have felt at all unsafe walking through that neighborhood at night.
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Are you a male? It's a little different.

Apparently the neighborhood she was in wasn't safe enough was it?

Just because "all the kids do it" doesn't mean it is a good idea for a young girl to be out alone at 1:30 am.

There is the real world and the world we wish we had and unfortunately they are seldom the same.

It's an awful thing that happened, and there is still a lot of missing information, but so many of these things in the end come down to a total lack of awareness of the world around.

As for guns, even if armed with a weapon but exercising no situational awareness at all you are no better off.
 
Why is it that I read more and more "we don't need anymore 'gun crime' threads" when something like this is posted? If you are not willing to read and inform yourself about both sides of the gun debate you are not preparing yourself for the future onslaught of gun control legislation that will inevitably be kicked around with the new presidency.

Only 'wanting' to read 'gun defense' threads and not more 'gun crimes' threads leaves you with no more of an angle than the Liberals who only look at gun crimes and make their decisions based solely on those examples.

Read these threads (annoying as you may find them) and use the information to help strengthen your arguments FOR gun rights instead of brushing them under the carpet because you don't care. That's the same attitude the Lib's use. "Guns do save lives, but lets just ban them all and there shouldn't ever be a scenario where a life needs saved with said guns."

Be better than who you are fighting, know and learn both sides of the argument, that gives you a 100% greater knowledge advantage over the opposition who seems to only want to 'hear' about how bad guns seem to be, rather than 'hear' about how they save live's too.


If these threads truly annoy you, don't read or post in them. Be the better person and pass it by.
 
This is a tragic event for her friends and family and they have my sympathy. This is certainly worthy of local news coverage. But, this is not national news. She was not a national figure or nationally prominent. She was not the child of a national figure. The crime itself, while unusual to some extent (her not fitting the typical victim profile), would not normally rise to more than a passing mention at best, buried well below any prominent position. If she had been murdered by a drunk driver most of us would never know about it.

The antis are really pushing every emotional button they can leading up to Heller, IMO.
 
Whoever informed you about Chapel Hill must have been thinking about Durham, which is a crime-riddled hellhole.
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No doubt about that. Being from Charlotte, to me Durham was always just "one of those cities near Raleigh" until I had the occasion to spend a few days there on a business trip. If we strayed more than two blocks from the office in any direction we were, in the words of Cartman, "in the ghettooooo". I can only guess that there must be at least some nice areas there but I certainly never found them :).

Chapel Hill on the other hand is known for being a well educated and professional city, if liberal. I was really surprised to hear about this.
 
student president murdered

well, i know a whole lot bout these people that are up in chapel hill. this is a very liberal area about life in general. violence is something these people choose to look the other way. you need to be street savvy to survive against
the type of people that do these type things 99% of time. this girl it sounds like was very naive about whats going down in the american way of life now .
things need to change when it comes to punshment when animals commit this type of crime. we as law abiding citizens need to toughen up and get down to the nitty gritty as who are doing these crimes and give em due punishment.
 
Let's not split hairs.

1) She was FAR from stupid. However, she was likely ignorant - uneducated in the concept of self defense, much less situational awareness. She'd probably never been -told- that bad things could happen, at least not in a serious fashion.

2) Not sure what the state/school rules are, but I wouldn't go to Vegas on the likelihood that CCW was legal on campus, even if she'd had a permit... If you don't have a permit, or are not allowed to carry, then that's basically legally disarmed. If you wanna tell the gooberment that what they are doing is illegal, well, you can march right up to the courthouse. I'd prefer to do things the easy way: change the laws.

3) I also do not think that an armed permit holder is going to stop -every- incident. Some folks get a little too damn walter mitty about that... What I -do- think is that enough students have permits (or not, in some lucky states) and are allowed to carry on campus without risking ruination of their expensive lives, that -some- criminals will be deterred from -some- acts, on the basis of "Hey, I don't feel like getting shot tonight - let's just go rob that place with the "no guns" sign in the window."

As it is, we've got a coupla pages of a LOT of folks blaming the poor girl. Hell, she probably hasn't been outside a classroom, library or student council office since she was twelve. Get off it. The fault here lies with the overall SYSTEM. A system that refuses the right of self defense.

That system can be changed.

How?

By you and I. If enough of a stink is made, and enough college administrators, faculty (and by extension, legislators...) are reached, and see the logic, things will change.

Now, we've got over 60,000 members here. Derek's internet lines start crying every night when folks sign on... There were over a thousand folks on at 10:00 in the morning. If all of you sent a quick little three sentence note, every morning, to a different school administrator or legislator, stuff would start to get noticed.

And maybe, just maybe, considered.

But no... It's too damn easy to blame the poor girl. Y'all oughta be ashamed.
 
HORSE FEATHERS!!

Boy, what a bunch of media hating, Democrat bashing, extremists! :D OK, now I've got your attention. :D

When I read the first portion of this thread I thought "damn, another 'shooting' thread, we don't need this" and I read the first few replies in case I missed something. What I see is a LOT of people that have fallen into the trap set by the media. The media tells us that THEY have all the information, and that they have it (virtually) before it happens. Not true Bat-Man. The media publishes a restricted subset of the information they have. The media filters out the information that does not fit within their preconceived notion and only present what they want said! Think about the number of interviews they take to give us just one or possibly two. And just the "facts" they want us to have. All the while ignoring those that say what the media doesn't want said. - - As Lilly Tomlin says "And that's the trruutttthhhhhh!"

The media ignores the facts that do not fit within their "hidden agenda". How does that apply here? WE DON'T KNOW YET! :banghead: We do NOT have enough information to make an informed decision - - on any of it.

Go back and re-read the initial media release. How much of it tells us - nothing - about what happened? A whole lot. They set up the story (notice the name THEY give it - story) to increase the emotional content and minimize the factual content. I've always been told that emotion is a poor reason to take action, and that actions based on FACTS will most often be the best ones. :eek:

RELAX and wait a few days before going at each others throat.
 
Dunno

Upscale neighborhood late at night...lone young female in an SUV. JUst sounds like a car-jacking that went bad (news reports indicate no sign of sexual assault) .

Maybe move the thread into "Tactics" for a discussion along those lines.
 
[Or is the reason for this system so that everyone can sit at home, and between their video games, blame the victim?
/QUOTE]

I wonder how many of her friends and admirers would agree with you. Place the blame where it belongs Bogie, on the liberal activists who in turn are usually the victims. Someone come at me, they may get me, but not w/o a real fight. I don't want to fight with you, but you need to stop preaching to the choir and start preaching to the people that are responsible for the disarmament of this nation as well as for the useless criminal justice system we now have and both roads lead to the same place and they aren't members of this board.
In addition to screwing it up for the rest of us, these same liberal activists are usually the victims themselves. Am I smug that a pretty little girl is dead because of probably a number of related bad judgement calls? I weep in anguish for her, and I weep in righteous indignation for all the indecent laws that tie the hands of only the law abiding.
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So, what have you done lately to persuade the opinion makers and the rule makers and the law makers that something needs to change?
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I do my share of letter writing and calling in. I also try to be a positive influence on people that have never before owned / shot a gun, with varying results. I respond to polls and write my opinion in the relevant places.
IMO, every criminal act, every murder spree does one thing, it makes people think what would I have done, what can I do?
There is a reason that almost all 50 states now allow some type of carry and have enacted some type of castle doctrine, because the lawmakers realize that there are more people that understand the need for personal self defense than ever before. The Brady's are all but finished, not dead by far, but like a wounded animal, they are making lots of noise and are far more dangerous because they are wounded. In the end, all we can do is continue to write letters and introduce others into the realm of personal responsibility and let nature take its course, the liberals who are brave enough to take their heads out of their @sses are our biggest assest.
 
This thread died out ten days ago, now we know the truth, it was an armed robbery / murder, possibly random. As I stated previously, I weep in anguish for her, and I weep in righteous indignation for all the indecent laws that tie the hands of only the law abiding.
If she was one of those card carrying liberals that bemoaned the right-to-carry, then she was a victim of her self, both in her lack of judgement to be out alone at night (unarmed) and in her possible support of the anti second amendment (as student-body president, if she was a pro second amendment advocate, I think we would have heard about it). This doesn't mean she got what she deserved, it just means that one must be realistic in a harsh world, I don't think she used her intelligence and I pray others will learn from her mistake.



http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/564/story/385422.html

Suspect in Duke grad student's death in court for robbery charges
The Associated Press

DURHAM, N.C. --A man charged with murdering a Duke University graduate student is scheduled to be in court on related robbery charges.

Authorities said 19-year-old Stephen Oates of Durham is scheduled to appear Monday afternoon in Durham County District Court on armed robbery charges.

Oates was indicted for murder last month in the fatal shooting of 29-year-old Abhijit Mahato (Ab-ah-SHEET muh-HA-toe). The computational mechanics doctoral student was found dead Jan. 18 inside his apartment a few blocks south of Duke's campus.

Oates is being held without bond. Also charged in Mahato's murder is 17-year-old Laurence Lovette of Durham. Lovette is also charged with murder in the shooting of University of North Carolina student body president Eve Carson.


Here is another article, astutely liberal, how kind, so unrealistic. Now we know, liberals blame poverty for crime and from here dads words, we see how she was brought up. Liberals are apparently on a mission, and willing to sacrifice their children (and ours).

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1003089.html
Hope lives in bereft dad
Ruth Sheehan, Staff Writer
In the cacophony of voices that have spoken out, mournfully, angrily, since Eve Carson's death, one group has been conspicuously absent: her family.
Father, mother, brother. They have not wanted to talk to the press. I respect that.

Some families in tragedy find a cathartic release in sharing their pain. Others are more private.

But at Eve Carson's funeral service in Athens, Ga., a week ago Sunday, prepared remarks from her father were read aloud. Those simple, soulful words tell you all you need to know about the family that produced a young woman as accomplished, and compassionate, as Eve Carson.

Bob Carson opened by describing a love affair that began the first moment he and his infant daughter locked eyes.

"I've always cherished the look Eve greeted me with as I held her in the delivery room. She was wide awake, and she sweetly peered right into my eyes with such pleasure ... as if saying thanks and 'I'm so glad to be here now, Dad.' A specialist would say it was a reaction to the newness or just being unadjusted to the hospital birthing room, but please believe me, something was just a touch different about Eve from birth."

If only every child experienced that sort of unconditional love.

Carson wrote:

"Every parent knows how special their child can be. We know from our own lives that growth and growing up are best continued over a lifetime. But there seems to be a moment early on when a parent can look at their child and know they've got the building blocks and the character for a good life. I feel blessed because I had that moment with both my loving children at early ages. I call it my Papua New Guinea moment ... when, should your child be lost upon a distant shore and even in a different culture, that child would grow up into a fine, helpful, caring person."

Carson described the senseless murder of his child as "sadness defined, unfathomable and bottomless." Even in the face of that pain, however, Carson expressed hope that his daughter's peers will be the ones to solve the most pressing problems of the times.

"I see a stunningly beautiful convergence of talent and caring in this, our children's, generation. ... I believe that these kids, along with their peers around the globe, can reach reasoned solutions for mitigating violence and tackling many of the inequities of poverty, prejudice, inadequate health care and under-education. This is no pie-in-the-sky wish! These kids are smart! They're so capable.

"They're more productive because they collaborate and communicate like no generation before them. And what is even more wonderful is their generosity. Isn't that tremendous?"

Something to consider as students gather in the Dean Dome tomorrow to celebrate Eve Carson's life.

In a church packed with mourners, Carson's remarks echoed many of the themes his daughter did, in word and action. They are words to remember as our community confronts the violence that ended Eve Carson's life.

Bob Carson noted that the roots of crime, and the pain of violence, are dilemmas that have been shuffled from one generation to the next -- until now.

"... I must tell you -- even with an aching heart, and yet with such hope and love -- that the friends of Eve, and their generation, will not be denied. They've got miles to go, and missions to keep, and we will be so much better for their undaunted perseverance."
 
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