Unpleasant encounter at a gas station

[Shadow 7D]

Had one walk up, pretty sure trying to get in the car with a "you got a light"

Said, nope don't smoke anymore
he goes on a jive about just use the car lighter
turned to him and said, 'they ain't put those in cars for a long time, anyways it ain't very bright to smoke in a gas station' and smiled at him, don't really know why.

his eyes got really big and he muttered something like 'yeah, you're right' as he scurried away...

Well, wasn't till I was taking to my wife about it, that I realized that I'd said the last as I was about to put the nozzle up and I had it pointed right at him.

Something talked around is OODA.
the entire point of the Jive is to get inside you OODA and limit you to 'give money' for act.

 

[rookorami]

Never really came across any too aggressive. Usually a shake of the head and "no cash" and its done.

 

[easyg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by easyg
.If the target appeared to be totally unarmed, I was going to get some money..

How did that happen without you getting slammed on your ear?

Believe it or not, but the vast majority of folks are law abiding citizens.
They don't want the cops to arrest them for beating up a bum.
Most gas stations have cameras that record the parking lot.
And you can't legally assault someone for merely begging.

And most folks don't want to get in a fight with a bum.
After all, the bum has absolutely nothing to lose.
He might even want to die.

Besides, if you beat him up, he gets to go to the ER where he gets a warm blanket, some pain meds, and a hot meal.
And he can make more money because folks at the hospital feel sorry for him because he was just assaulted.

But if you pepper spray the bum, he just gets the spray washed out of his eyes and sent on his way.
No warm blanket, no pain meds, and no hot meal.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

In east Austin crack head beggars would even come and knock on your door. Seriously... Saturday morning, Knock Knock.. "hey man you got a couple bucks." SLAM, grumble grumble...

After the first time that happened I always stashed a gun in my pants before I'd open the door. Never know...

 

[JPG19]

This seems like nothing more than a non-event. Sure, you shouldn't have allowed him to get so close and staying armed until you are at the destination that requires you to disarm is always prudent. I have always filled up when my vehicle hits the halfway mark. If nothing else, it is extra insurance and allows for emergency scenarios of longer, unexpected drives to occur more rapidly, etc.. You have to fill the thing up either way, doing it at 1/2 rather than 1/4 remaining doesn't cost anymore, so why not play it safe?

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I haven’t been approached by a bum in a long time, when I am I tell them the truth “I’m married and my wife never lets me out of the house with money”.

If that doesn’t work I hand them a Gospel tract that usually does the trick

The bums that irritate me the most are the guys that walk around trying to “sell” the little finger spelling cards. They hand you a card that says “Hi I’m Deaf, This is the only way I can make a living, please buy my card with the finger spelling alphabet on it” I start reading them the riot act in ASL about how they make all Deafs look like beggars and how they degrade the culture. I generally get one of two reactions they either really are Deaf and they sign “sorry” and leave or they aren’t Deaf and they get the deer in the headlights look and leave.

 

[GBExpat]

easyg, thank you for sharing your insights!

 

[Kleanbore]

But if you pepper spray the bum, he just gets the spray washed out of his eyes and sent on his way.
No warm blanket, no pain meds, and no hot meal.

Interesting discussion of what happens to the fellow, but what is more important to most of us is what happens to the person who uses the pepper spray without lawful justification.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

^ Right. You can't just pepper spray someone because they're annoying you.
If they're attacking or trying to steal your car, fine. But you can't just hose someone down for asking for a buck.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Exactly. No one here has said they'd do anything unjustifiably.. from putting a hand on a gun to slamming someone's ear on the ground.
easyg, there's nothing more sickening than a bully bum. Maybe you did get an indication that they were carrying.. there's no law against that, especially if you are threatening them to fork over their cash.. you were the one that said you were going to get that cash, one way or another. Pretty pathetic really.
Have you ever been pulled over for any reason in L.A.? They'll generally have their unholstered handgun behind their leg while asking for DL and registration as a matter of course. You could probably call your congressman and whine if you ever go to L.A. or a big city.

 

[Ed Ames]

Panhandling is against the law in most places. In some areas, police who see panhandlers stop and harass as a matter of dept. policy or even for personal gain. In some parts of California, as a non-random example, it isn't unusual to see two or three patrol cars stopped and five officers gathered around one person suspected of vagrancy. They aren't there to make sure nobody has mistreated the unfortunate citizen. They are there to make that person's life unpleasant enough that they will go to another town.

In that climate there is small chance of justice for someone who uses OC to stop a panhandler.

Not condoning, just stating the facts as they exist on the ground.

 

[Kleanbore]

Panhandling is against the law in most places.

A misdemeanor which the police are authorized to handle with the minimum force necessary....

But should anyone other than a sworn officer use force, the law would not look kindly. Exposing a weapon to make a point? Bad idea. For one thing, that would constitute a crime. For another, it would deprive the citizen of being able to mount a self-defense case. And don't try pepper spray.

In addition to legal risk, there is physical risk. Best to avoid the risk of being stabbed, or being hit in the head by the other guy whom you were not watching, or exchanging boldly fluids.

All downside, no upside.

 

[Ed Ames]

All downside, no upside.

Are you saying that, as a homeless person or panhandler, you would not be concerned?

It seems like a realistic threat to me. If I was panhandling I would expect that pepper spray is more likely to be actually administered than a gun is. If nothing else, pepper spray is quieter, and the person deploying it has a good chance of being away before I can seek help and sort out the fact that this time you, mr. police officer, shouldn't be harassing me but should instead go after the person who sprayed me. With a lot of cops that's a bridge top far of course... the idea of a perp as victim just doesn't sum.

 

[Potatohead]

this is a non story in my opinion. but you know what they say about opinions

 

[Potatohead]

Bad idea. For one thing, that would constitute a crime.

Its a crime to show your weapon?

 

[Ed Ames]

Its a crime to show your weapon?

Look up brandishing laws for your state. In some states, yes, others not per se but you may be charged with something bogus like disorderly conduct.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Look up brandishing laws for your state. In some states, yes, others not per se but you may be charged with something bogus like disorderly conduct.

You have to "show" your weapon to use it. You only use your weapon (or do anything) when you have to.

 

[Kleanbore]

Its a crime to show your weapon?

If you do so for the purpose of threatening, for creating alarm or concern, or for persuasion, yes--unless you are lawfully justified.

In some states, such justification would only exist if deadly force were justified. In a few, the threshold for justification is lower.

Those points address the use of force laws. One must also know the laws regarding concealment.

 

[Potatohead]

gotcha

 

[Kleanbore]

If nothing else, pepper spray is quieter, and the person deploying it has a good chance of being away before I can seek help and sort out the fact that this time you, mr. police officer, shouldn't be harassing me but should instead go after the person who sprayed me.

Which gives the department a complaint to follow up on and a crime to solve...

 

[Potatohead]

You have to "show" your weapon to use it. You only use your weapon (or do anything) when you have to.

true

 

[Ed Ames]

You have to "show" your weapon to use it. You only use your weapon (or do anything) when you have to.

That depends on the sense in which 'show' is used.

If you use show as display, it goes one way. If you use show as reveal, it can go another. Of course in the real world it can go seventeen other ways depending on facts beyond our control but that's a side issue.

Which gives the department a complaint to follow up on and a crime to solve...

Two actually. There is the crime you admitted when bringing the complaint, and the crime you allege in your complaint. You are counting on the police ignoring the easier in the hopes of the showier. That is not a sure bet. A lot of people will go for the bird in the hand, especially if there is an effort underway to displace people like you to other jurisdictions anyway.

 

[Certaindeaf]

That depends on the sense in which 'show' is used.

If you use show as display, it goes one way. If you use show as reveal, it can go another. Of course in the real world it can go seventeen other ways depending on facts beyond our control but that's a side issue.

A gun isn't a showpiece. We're talking actual usage of guns here, not waving it about like a monkey.

 

[Kleanbore]

There is the crime you admitted when bringing the complaint, and the crime you allege in your complaint. You are counting on the police ignoring the easier in the hopes of the showier.

No.

The remedy for the first is generally to ask you to stop and to arrest you if you do not comply--very analogous to trespass.

The police have to have a lawful reason to not follow up on complaint involving criminal assault involving the unlawful use of pepper spray, and lack of evidence will not be available to them.

Many crimes involve victims who are far from the cream of society, but the police are legally obligated to pursue them. It is not up to the patrolman.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Its a crime to show your weapon?

Several years ago a former El Paso County (Colorado) Sheriff’s Deputy named Sean Moloncari was arrested for aggravated menacing in Colorado Springs for simply patting his suit jacket over his gun to intimidate someone. He was eventually acquitted but it took about a year and cost him quite a bit in legal fees.

You do not touch your gun unless you can clearly articulate a specific act that caused you to reasonably fear for your life or fear that you would suffer grievous injury