Unpleasant encounter at a gas station

[Prophet]

On a recent trip to Harrisburg I encountered a lot of homeless folks. I also witnessed a multi-person brawl on the street parallel to the one I was parked on. Needless to say after that I was even more wary of my surroundings and encounters with homeless folks. I've found it best to respond just as you assume most others would; politely but firmly say "no, sorry", and don't stop walking. That's what most folks do, so your response will be unremarkable among the multitude of responses the beggar has probably received that day. I had the same beggar approach me on two separate occasions and he totally sunk his first story on his second encounter. I wanted so bad to call him out on his 'Nam vet story but I resisted and repeated my first formal response.

That said, I have given things to homeless people; usually a bottle of water or a soda. Never money.

One should always have his or her head on a swivel at a gas station. The hose and/or the car door limit(s) one's movement; the pumps and cars provide cover for one or more assailants; closing distances are short; and the station is, to borrow a phrase from Tom Givens, a veritable water hole in the Serengeti for car jackers, robbers, and kidnappers.

This is absolutely correct. Whenever I stop for gas in a seedy area (even in non-seedy areas if I'm not in a hurry) I'll drive around the station parking lot first and check everything out before parking at the fuel pump. Then I keep my head on a swivel.

Here's something I'd be interested in getting folk's opinion on; when fueling do you keep your driver's side door open or shut and locked/unlocked, and where do you keep your keys? If I want to get into my car ASAP to avoid a situation I see the locked and closed door as an impediment, but then again I don't want someone to walk over and jump in my car while I'm fueling. What I usually do is keep the door closed but unlocked, and the ignition key on my person (not in my pocket because I don't want to dig for it).

 

[Ed Ames]

No.

The remedy for the first is generally to ask you to stop and to arrest you if you do not comply--very analogous to trespass.

The police have to have a lawful reason to not follow up on complaint involving criminal assault involving the unlawful use of pepper spray, and lack of evidence will not be available to them.

Many crimes involve victims who are far from the cream of society, but the police are legally obligated to pursue them. It is not up to the patrolman.

You are talking about how it should work. That's fine. The world would be a better place if it always worked that way. Maybe you are in a position where the only cases you see are those where it works that way. I've been in a position to see where it didn't.

If you panhandle (or run an unlicensed food cart, or prostitute yourself, or any of a number of other crimes against civic respectability), do not expect equal justice. You may, as Kleanbore says, get what you deserve.... but you are also likely to get what people think you deserve. The two are very different.

 

[GBExpat]

Here's something I'd be interested in getting folk's opinion on;

Door closed & unlocked, keys in pocket ... always in scan-mode.

 

[tactikel]

When approached (and on the west side of Chicago it happens almost daily) I always make eye contact and say "no thank you!" Firm but respectful.
BTW always carry a secondary and possibly a tertiary weapon. A knife is a must, as big as legal, and a cane or umbrella is always in my car. Always layer your level of defense-never go from fully armed to defenseless.

 

[stompah]

What's the name of the gas station. I would love to see the surveillance footage of this.

As some other posters have said the OP went from situational awareness to paranoia. My advice is next time find a reflective surface so you can watch your back. Doesn't have to give you a clear picture but just something so you can see movement behind you. Being 6'2" a lot of ATM'smirrors are too low to see **** so I try to find objects on or around the machine that will alert me to something moving behind me. It gives me the ability to turn around and assess the situation before the person is within my comfort zone.

As for bums I just look them straight in the eye and say 'sorry I don't have any change on me'. Done. Works every time. You acknowledge them and give them the info they need to come to the conclusion that there are easier people to get money from.

Once again, 6'2", 300+ lbs, and the sun burns my eyes so I mean mug like a mofo if I forgot my sunglasses helps too.

 

[villagelightsmith]

Communicate Early

As an unwelcome approach is being made, communicate as early as possible. The raised palm of the hand says "Stop." The eye contact says "I acknowledge you" and gives your words and body language some weight. A small shake of the head says "No", and dismisses the beggar to ply his story somewhere else.

Danger? Wrong idea. Don't even go there. Don't make it something it isn't. Don't escalate the event. This guy's just another human, not a bogey-man. How you treat him might or might not be important in his future. He may be hard and crusty, he may be fragile, he may be about to break either way. We never really know who we are talking to. A kind word can change a life. A few seconds of listening, a smile, a moment or two of good counsel can deflate a flaming ego, build up someone who needs to be wrapped in courage, giving him the courage to continue living when all circumstances seem opposed to life itself, or it can issue a call to a higher way of living. (The High Road?) Your response to your fellow man defines you. It tells a great deal about who and what you want to be. Excel. And be wise.

 

[JShirley]

To start off, some of y'all scare me. You seem to be looking for an excuse to hurt someone, because you think hurting someone will let you conquer your own fear. But you'll still be frightened, just in jail.

"Avoid eye contact?!" Horrible advice. You do not want to appear to be avoiding eye contact, because that makes you seem timid, frightened, and weak.

Relax. Be aware. Know how everything in your environment can be used as a weapon. Don't be rude if you can help it. And for some of you...leave the violent fantasies, and grow the hell up.

John

 

[Trunk Monkey]

This occurred to me while reading this thread, is my over all goal to get rid of the bum as quick as I can or to keep from giving him money or to keep him out of my space altogether?

The reason I ask is if my goal is to get rid of the guy I have to acknowledge that there are times when the easiest way to achieve that goal is to give him a buck or two.

Even if I know he’s likely going to put it towards a bottle, that’s not my concern; I’m not a social crusader and I doubt that he’s going to “see the light” because I turned him down for a buck.

So I have to ask, if the easiest way to get rid of him is to give him a buck why not give him a buck ?

 

[Mike J]

I used to know a guy that anytime he spotted a panhandler would say in a loud voice, " Hey, you got some change I can have, I need help, can you let me have some change?"
They pretty much left him alone & he never had to use violence.

 

[Kleanbore]

This occurred to me while reading this thread, is my over all goal to get rid of the bum as quick as I can or to keep from giving him money or to keep him out of my space altogether?

You decide that, but I would presume that the primary goal of each of us would be to remain safe.

That would mean avoiding any kind of confrontation to stay safe from being injured or infected.

It would extend to keeping the guy's accomplice from getting the stuff in your car while you are preoccupied.

It would also mean staying off the list of wanted suspects. Exposing a firearm in a threatening manner or using pepper spray without justification could lead to charges; both might be recorded on camera or seen by witnesses or both, and the latter would also create physical evidence.

And, of course, leaving the scene would serve as an indication of guilt.

 

[DeepSouth]

This is almost funny to me, I get a "beggar" probably once a week. In a county with a average income of under 30k (with a serious gap between lower and middle classes) anybody driving a decent vehicle is "rich." You WILL get hit up for money or a ride, which will lead to him asking for money, if you stop here very often at all.

There are two gas stations with in 10 miles of my house, both are about 2 miles away and right next to each other. The " beggars" hang out at both of those gas stations. By now I know most of them by name, until a new one pops up.

These people are generally harmless drunkards but they will definitely get up in your face when talking if you let them, they are loud, obnoxious, just basically permanently drunk, in a way.

I just keep my hand in my pocket on my gun EVERYTIME I gas up, I lean against my truck with my hand in my pocket. These people don't even bother me anymore, now my wife is a different story and understandably so. Generally if you loudly and firmly tell them to "get lost, I ain't got nothing for you" they will stop in there tracks. If they don't, loudly tell the to "stop right there" and put out the hand that's not in you pocket, and turn a little sideways (draw hand away and out hand closer to them) they WILL see the hand in the pocket and they know what that means. You have to be loud but you don't want them to think your yelling at them as they precive that as a 'rich guy who thinks he's better than me'

I find it easier to engauge them first, if possible. I speak politely, if I speak, many times a simple nod and eye contact are enough, but keep on walking communicates "hello & goodbye." If I do speak its short and sweet, then give the impression of turning your attn away but obviously you keep an eye on them.

Like I said, once a week, it used to more when I was younger and didn't know half of these guys by name. I had lots of practice, I've tried giving them a little money = terrible idea they WILL remember you. I've tried being very rude, while it generally does get them to leave you alone it also can seriously escalate the situation. I have given them rides, I have fussed them out, I have told them to get jobs lol, you name it ive tried it. Short sweet and then "ignore them" but not really works best. This is literally second nature now, I don't even give these people a thought anymore, past keeping an eye on them.








I blame all typos on iPhones auto-correct.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Hum.. actually if the goal is to get them to reject you as fast as possible
ok, thinking about this GET THEM to reject you.

Offering food, homelessness org. literature and invitations to shelters
Or, worse, collect of Jehovah Witness tracts and ask them if they have accepted Jehovah as their Lord and Savior. Last thing most bums want is saved, most are VERY happy living the life they live.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

LOL Gospel Tracts and Lance' s peanut butter crackers plus a bottle.of water offered Runs 98% of them off. I had to get rude 2 times in Fort Worth in the past 12 years. I had to give one an open hand shove and the other got introduced to my cane. Otherwise I had good results being nice , firm and offering the love of Christ.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I find that apples work better than the crackers, some will take my crackers. but apples get universally rejected.

 

[RTR_RTR]

I have never had a panhandler be anything but grateful for offered food/water. I also volunteer some time in a homeless clinic. I think it's a serious misconception that the majority of homeless individuals are substance abusers

 

[Shadow 7D]

I have never had a panhandler be anything but grateful for offered food/water. I also volunteer some time in a homeless clinic. I think it's a serious misconception that the majority of homeless individuals are substance abusers

Go back and reread, on page 2 http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8991795&postcount=47

YI've dealt with panhandlers in the northeast (Phila and various bits of NJ), Texas, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. I doubt there is any sort of panhandler I haven't dealt with, including very aggressive ones, real criminals masquerading as panhandlers, and genuine homeless people in need of (mostly psychiatric) help "The System" just doesn't give just to name a few types.

Most panhandlers are professionals. They are in it for the money. They aren't substance abusers or homeless. They have figured out they can clear lots of money (a friend of mine averaged $150 a day in the 1990s, and claimed he sometimes saw $300+ a day) tax free for the service or making people feel better about themselves. ....

The problem is the people that act like panhandlers but aren't. The ones who are distracting you for their teammate pickpocket, or worse. How does your method filter them out?

Easy G, who was a panhandler expounds http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8992198&postcount=51

Okay, let me tell you what I know as a former "bum"....

Years ago I went through a phase where I decided to be a homeless bum.
And here is what I learned:


If the target appeared to be totally unarmed, I was going to get some money.

If the target showed or indicated that he was armed with a firearm, I was going to get some money.

But if the target showed or indicated that they had, and were willing to use, pepper-spray or a stun gun or a taser, then I was NOT going to get any money.


You see, folks who are totally unarmed tended to give me a few bucks just to get me to go away.

While there are many who are homeless, the issue is that most 'normal' people WANT a place to live,they don't want to be on the street, so who's on the streets, well those who (for various reasons) can't keep a roof over their head...

Do these people panhandle, yeah, but guess what, most of the panhandlers I've seen are Pro's, they have fast food and a large coke stashed in the bushes, can afford cigarettes (which cost close to $10 a pack) and surprisingly, the stand up and walk perfectly fine after they hand off the brace and crutches, or the wheelchair...

They are not hungry, are NOT willing to work, for money or food, no matter what the sign says, and don't want an apple, cause they have better in the bushes. I've had an apple thrown at my car before, and yeah I called the cops on the guy. Most will refuse and move quickly on, cause you ain't gonna fork out cash, the town I live in has a HUGE problem with panhandlers, the ordinance is effective, you want to 'entice a traffic hazard' that'll be a ticket, and the panhandler gets one for J-walking and causing a traffic hazard.

Every time the ACLU does a protest, they point out the issue of people playing in rush hour traffic and that most 'enables negative behaviors' along with (te he he, and the ACLU paid the city's legal costs on this one) that current law does not prohibit panhandling, only behavior that creates a public danger. And they use the opportunity to point out, if you want to help the homeless and feel the need to give money away, there are numerous social service agencies that would be happy to take your money and put it to a better use than the local liquor store.

 

[RTR_RTR]

There's a big homeless problem in my city as well, and the LEO are more or less apathetic to panhandling as far as I can tell, as long as it stays out of upper class areas (not that it's a big deal to me, they have plenty of other things to worry about). Here's an abstract that says prevalence of 30-40% alcohol abuse and 10-15% substance abuse in homeless individuals (http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0003-066X.46.11.1139). I don't give money to panhandlers for a reason, but I'll occasionally give a bottle of water or grab an extra burger from McD's or some such. If it isn't appreciated, they won't get another, but most I've seen are thankful. Plenty of people who have made regretted poor decisions, are hard on their luck, or are having a hard time w/mental illness

 

[Kleanbore]

Getting a little too far afield into social issues. Good discussion, but not for uor table.