Unusual Shotgun

[USBP1969]

The below YouTube link shows several hunters and trackers looking for wounded leopard. At the very beginning of the clip one hunter closes what appears to be a 12 ga double with a short barrel and rifle sights.

Just wondering if anyone has any information about a shotgun of this type?

Thanks,
USBP1969

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kuypQYeBmo

 

[Messenger Guard]

Can't say anything about the rifle but that great white hunter whines like a little girl.

 

[PTK]

That looks like a side-by-side 45-70 (or similar) rifle, not a shotgun. The muzzle (seen at 0:23-0:25) is too small for a 12ga. Plus, really, would you hunt a leopard with a 12ga? I sure wouldn't.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Double rifle, not shotgun. But, African guides (Peter Capstick comes to mind) regularly use/used shotguns to track down wounded leopards. Capstick wrote several nice articles about that. He actually came to use #4 buckshot after extensive testing because leopards are actually quite small and density of shot increased the likelihood of a brain hit. Penetration isn't an issue on animals that size at close range.

 

[lobo9er]

yeah doesnt look much like a shotty one of the guys look like is carrying a wingmaster though. I imagine a 12 deer slug would drop a leapord in its tracks with out a problem. i wouldn't feel under gunned just me, i have never shot a big cat though so all i can do is imagine.

 

[lobo9er]

maybe they were looking for better shots but no one really seem like they wanted anything to do with it at first. kinda seemed like they scattered

 

[Capstick1]

That gun that guys using is a double barreled rifle. Many hunters in Africa like to use these. It's hard to tell what rounds it's chambered for but if you have the money and a strong shoulder you can get these chambered in anything from a .375 H&H on up to the 700 Nitro Express. Many professional hunters in Africa like to use double barreled rifles because you can get off a second shot quicker than if you were using a bolt action rifle. This is kind of a good thing to have especially when you have an angry elephant or cape buffalo charging at you. These guns aren't cheap though. Usually you have to purchase them from these custom gun manufactures like Holland and Holland, Purdey, etc.

 

[blackops]

Never heard a guy sound more like a woman in my entire life. wow.

 

[Birdmang]

Its the accent.

 

[TrickyDick]

I thought it was a woman at first when i heard the scream and the long hair. I just don't understand why he didn't have a gun ready to go. If I'm in africa hunting, there will not be a moment where i will not have a loaded weapon ready to fire. i mean, Lions, elephants, leopards, cheetahs, rhinos, etc. what makes you think you're not a potential victim at any moment in the safari?

 

[Dobe]

Plus, really, would you hunt a leopard with a 12ga? I sure wouldn't.

Check out "34". I believe that one is a shotgun. And many Afican hunter do use a shotgun for backup and very close range work, i.e. wounded cats in tall grass.

 

[Pronghorn]

Yes he did scream like a woman but I doubt anyone would sound normal as their being mauled by a leopard. And I don't get what everyone is complaining about when it comes to hunting leopards. It seems like everyone in the free world is against it. I would love to be able to go on an African leopard hunt.

 

[Fred Fuller]

A certain number of professional hunters use/used 12 gauge pumpguns with buckshot on wounded leopards. They're thin skinned and relatively lightly boned, just the kind of target shotguns and buckshot at close range work well on. I have read of a few people actually killing leopards bare handed, it's not like they are invincible but a PO'd cat in the bush is nothing to underestimate.

Dude that got chomped had a bolt gun, as near as I can tell. Whether he was one of the ones shooting at the cat as it first emerged from the bush I don't know, but there were several shots fired at it. Fast followup shots in a tight space = a very good thing! But not missing that first shot is even better... . Running the bolt/preparing for a followup shot instantly should be instinctive no matter what kind of firearm you shoot.

Anyone who has a lapfull of spotted buzzsaw can scream however they want, I wouldn't think any less of them. That was a genuinely dangerous dustup- IMHO too many people, too many guns, too scattered out, in a seriously tense situation. It's a minor miracle somebody didn't get shot. I wouldn't even walk up on a bird dog pointing a covey of quail in a gaggle of people like that, much less go out in the bush to kick up a wounded leopard- and I'll never see Africa in this lifetime.

lpl

 

[lemaymiami]

That business of a dangerous situation made much more dangerous by the number of armed folks confronting a real hazard at close range just isn't funny. Some years ago a group of LEO's in my area (south Florida) got in a circular firing squad situation and I think most of them wound up at the same ER... none were shot by anyone other than cops.

 

[USBP1969]

I posted in the shotgun section because the case heads on that short double looked quite a bit larger than a .375 / .458.

Over the years I have really enjoyed reading Capstick's and Col. Jim Corbett's books. (more than once) Also I really enjoyed one I first encountered in the Navy Library at Great Lakes, IL. in 1961. It was entitled. "Killers In Africa" by Alexander Lake. It was out of print, but it's back now. It's the first and only book I have ever read about the dangers of hunting Baboons.

http://www.amazon.com/Killers-Africa-Animals-Hunters-Adventure/dp/1570901163

 

[SwampWolf]

and I'll never see Africa in this lifetime.

What? You've never heard of the lottery?

 

[Tom Held]

leopard charge

A friend of mine knows this PH (professional hunter). He went into shock and almost died. That leopard covered 30 plus yards in under one second from the time the first shots were fired. Another friend of mine in Maryland shot a big male leopard last year with a 375 H and H in the left shoulder and broke it. They tracked it for an hour when it finally charged them. He and PH each got off one shot with 12 gauge shotguns and OO buck at about 15 yards with no effect. His hunting partner shot from the hip with a 416 Rigby using solids and killed it less than a yard away.

When they skinned the leopard the buckshot from one gun had barely penetrated the hide from the side. the buckshot in the head only dented the skull. These are tough strong animals.

The daughter of a very famous outdoor writer, Craig Boddington wounded a leopard last year and it charged and attacked a dog handler in Namibia (they are allowed to hunt leopard with dogs there like we do mountain lion here). In the melee she tried to kill it with a second shot and instead shot the tracker through both hips. This was not pretty.

Tom

 

[KodiakBeer]

When they skinned the leopard the buckshot from one gun had barely penetrated the hide from the side. the buckshot in the head only dented the skull. These are tough strong animals.

I find that hard to believe. If it happened, there was something else going on like deteriorated ammo.

 

[bang_bang]

Would a 12 gauge loaded with slugs be effective then?

I mean, people carry these to aid in defense against the big bears up north. Why not for back up in a pump gun, like this situation?

 

[Tom Held]

reply

Nobody hunts dangerous game in Africa with deteriorated ammo. Paul is one of these lucky guys that is fortunate to take 3-5 big game hunting trips a year and has over 200 mounts in his "game room" including a shoulder mounted bull elephant. The gentleman that killed the leopard is a retired Air Force Colonel and good friend of mine. He's also an experienced dangerous game hunter and advised them not to go after the leopard with shotguns. But I guess circumstances differ. Tom

 

[KodiakBeer]

Nobody hunts dangerous game in Africa with deteriorated ammo.

Then something else is going on, like shots going through heavy brush or even a tall tale. A 00 buck will easily penetrate the hide or skull of a small animal like a leopard. Kodiak bears have been killed with buckshot at close range.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Looks like a big double (rifle). I wonder if he's lucky enough to own a 4-bore or 8-bore rifle.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

You can see what appears to be an 870 with a short barrel and rifle sights for just a second at the 0:34 mark.

 

[Al LaVodka]

T.R. specifically took his Fox shotgun to Africa to shoot big cats.
Al

 

[USBP1969]

When I was stationed at Whitefish, MT wildlife played a big part of the local news, especially "The Hungry Horse News."

Whenever I could, I'd patrol the road that runs from Columbia Falls, MT to the border. It was about a 50 mile long road that started as a nice paved two lane and ended up in a one lane jeep trail.

I'd always see a variety of wildlife on that run. Everything from Mule deer to Elk to Black Bear, Moose and even one very large Mountain Lion.

The POE (Port Of Entry) was only open 3 months during the summer with a husband-wife team manning the U.S. side and one Canadian Customs fellow on the other side of the border on two week rotation.

One of the Canadian Customs guys was an ex-RCMP member who had quite an interesting career. Not in the "shots fire, we are in pursuit" kind of way, but with wildlife, especially bears.

Whenever there was problem bear either he or his partner, or both would get called out. He really had some interesting stories and when asked how many bears he have to dispatch in a given year he answered, "The most I had in one year was 36." (mixture of Black and Brown bears)

I figured he'd be a real expert on "bear medicine" so I asked him what he used. He said that after some bad experiences with rifles he used what the RCMP recommended which was a 12ga. shooting xxxx. (I can't remember the name he used.) He really has no clue what it was, but each visit he'd walk over and tell me more bear encounter stories.

On one occasion there were two adult Griz running folks off a dump on an off-shore BC island. To make a long story short, he walked out onto the dump, provoked a charge and at 10-12 yards fired two rounds at each, dropping them both. Amazing.

It was driving me nuts. After spending my life hunting and shooting as well as serving as a Firearms Instructor at the US Border Patrol Academy at F.L.E.T.C. for 9 years I had to find out what "xxxx" was that worked so well on bears.

He added, "I don't know what it was, but it sure worked. The thing is, you really had to be close."

One day when I was doing a record check with the RCMP on a fellow I had picked up I asked them what the heck "xxxx" was?

Their reply was, "OO Buck." I was indeed surprised and that day I gained a new respect for 12 ga. "Double Ought".