Upgrade from 30-06 or use what I have

sabbfan

sabbfan

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Jul 21, 2012
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Location
Gilman, IA
I went on a Colorado elk hunt last fall, saw plenty of elk but didn’t get the opportunity to bring one home. Only good shot I had was at a bull at 500 yards. I passed on it since I wasn’t comfortable shooting at that distance and there was no way to get closer. I have found a range semi local to me that goes out to 500 yards so next time I will be prepared to take that shot if it presents itself. My question is should I stick to my 30-06 or give in to my temptation and buy something like a 300 win mag or the 7 prc that has me doing a bunch of reading on. The rifle would only be used for trips out west since in Iowa I couldn’t use it for deer.
 
Another new gun is always the answer. :) I definitely have a 7!PRC in my future. But I am giving it a little time to let some brass become available. Hornady factory ammo is by farmy favorite, but I don’t like to pay for it :) the 7PRC, and the 300 PRC, actually the whole PRC family seem like handloader paradise in a way. I don’t see any reason why a properly loaded 30–06 would not do the job. That said, I am not an elk hunter, yet, and can definitely see the advantage of a lot more “umph”.
 
I've always been in the camp of "get good with what you have." Something different won't help you if you don't take the time to practice.

Spend what you would spend on a new rifle to buy ammo and range time for you current one.

I think part of hunting is figuring out how to use the equipment that you have in the scenarios that you've been in. So you have a 30-06 and your last hunt you needed to take a 500 yard shot so practice doing that with your 30-06.
 
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If I can use a 30-30 94ae out to 300 I'm sure you can use a 30-06 bolt action out to 500.
To me 30-06 is the upgrade.
Need heavier like 180gr or more high ballistic coefficient ammo that the rifle likes.
Since I load my own ammo if I had a 30-06 I would just run slightly hot loaded ammo. But standard 50,000psi ammo would be vary acceptable too.
I don't hunt elk because I don't want to drive 4 to 5 hours each way.
 
I’d say a 30/06 is very capable cartridge with recoil I’m comfortable with, I personally don’t shoot rifles that I know are going to punish me very well & they’re no fun sighting in & getting confidence with. My first elk as a kid was with a 303 Savage 99 & every one since along with mule deer & antalope have been with a Remington 700 ADL 308 using 180gr ammo. Most the elk shot were in heavy timber at close range & a few out by Maybell/Craig area where it’s more open country were still inside my comfort zone of 200 or less yards.
It’s up to you to get good at 500 yard shots with your 06, a 300/7mm mag or work on your hunting skills, do you homework & simply get closer to your game-both are equally challenging.
 
d2wing said:
There isn't an upgrade from 30-06. I would use 165 SPBT bullets and practice.
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Came here to post something like this.


'06 has been around a long time and countless amounts of research and development have gone into the round.

It is still a standard that other rounds are compared to.

Is there better? Yeah maybe.
Will the '06 do a damned good job? Believe it.
 
If you want a new rifle, with a more expensive, harder kicking cartridge and (don't forget) the expense of new scope; then, go for it.

I find .30-06 loaded with Nosler Partition 180 gr more than adequate for elk.
I load Sierra 180 gr practice ammo and shoot 60-80 rounds every month.
My friend has a .30-.378 Weatherby. He shoots 3-5 rounds per year, at $5 / round and kicks like a mule.

Your decision
 
Wasn't it Townsen Whelen that said, "The .30/06 is never the wrong answer." I think it was John Barsness that said we needed more 75 yard deer hunters than more beanfield rifles.
Thank you for not taking that 500 yard shot. Elk can soak up a lot of bullets before going down. What I've seen is sports taking that 500 yard shot and the elk runs away. Then there they are, did I hit it or not. Maybe they saw some reaction, maybe not, if they were using some thunder magnum, they may not have seen anything after they recover from the recoil. Now 500 yards away might be the start of a blood trail, maybe not. It can sometimes be impossible to "mark" the spot where that bull was standing and start trailing a wounded critter. I've found more than a few dead bulls in the woods after the season.
A lot more than the calibre of rifle should factor into a 500 yard shot on any game. I've chosen not to take them. I've had the same problems with shots much shorter than 500 yards.
I think you're good to go with the '06.
 
I know many of you who read my posts get tired of me saying that I only hunt deer and elk with a 30-06 for more than 50 years. You do not need a 300 Winchester you need to learn to become more proficient with your 30-06 and become more confident with your abilities to shoot and the caliber this rifle offers. Learn its capabilities and shoot it a lot. After years of using a variety of bullet weights I decided to load only 165 grainers and stocked up on Remington Core-Lokt bullets. Still have a ton of bullets because this have always proven to be a reliable bullet for hunting. Does not have the best BC but I am not shooting ELR and will get the job done to 500 yards if you can hit what you are aiming at.

Don't fall into the trap of muzzle energy down range because Native American Indians were using bow and arrow successfully without worrying about muzzle energy.
I stuck with 30-06 to make my life simple and so that I do not need to carry a data card with me. I know how I hand load each round and I zero my 30-06 at 200 yards knowing that if I shoot at 200 yards or closer my poi remains the same as I will be in the kill zone for deer or elk. I also know that at 300 my bullet drops about 8 inches from my zero, this is using a 165 grainer and if I use a 180 grainer the bullet drops an additional 2 inches at 300 yards. You want to shoot further learn to hit a milk jug consistently at those distance. Reason I say a milk jug is because I consider it a rough estimate for a kill zone for deer and elk. The smaller the target the better for you.

Many people consider the 30-06 to be very hard recoiling caliber so they justify buying the .308, but the 300 Winchester will rattle your teeth and knock some filling loose. In my opinion the 30-06 is the best caliber ever invented because it can be loaded light or heavy, and with the advancement of new bullet design and technology there are better bullets that have better ballistics than my Remington Core-lokts, but I know what I can do with them and their limitations and cababilities. You need to do the same, learn its potential as well as yours.

One last thing I would like to add is THANK YOU! Thank you for knowing and admitting that you were not comfortable taking a shot from that distance. This is the character of a good hunter. All animals should be respected and deserve a merciful and painless death.
 
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Years ago I talked at length to an outfitter whose clients took a combined 52 elk most every year. His personal opinion was that the 7 Remington Mag was the optimum caliber. But, that’s one mans opinion. I think you’re going to have a hard time exceeding the performance of a 160ish grain high B.C. bullet at +/- 3,000 FPS from the 7 mag or something equivalent

FWIW, my 7 mag has less felt recoil than a .270 I used to shoot, but I suspect that has a lot to do with the stock design and particularly the recoil pad. The pad makes a huge difference

I’d find a suitable bullet with a high B.C. in calibers you are considering and see what it takes to launch it to the velocity you desire and compare the drop at 500. I think you’ll find it takes something in the 200+ grain range in a .30 caliber to match the 160 grain in .284/7mm. And a 200+ grain at 3,000 FPS kills on both ends

I journeyed down this path many years ago when I was dabbling into 1,000 yard shooting. At that time (before 6.5 became so popular) the .284 was easily the sweet spot for flattest shooting versus tolerable recoil

Does this mean a .30-06 isn’t adequate? Certainly not. But personally I’d reduce every chance for error that I could. If one shoots 6” flatter, doesn’t mean the other won’t work, but it does reduce you chance of error by 6”, which may make all the difference.
 
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never took a 500 yard shot, but I'd go try it for sure with the equipment I have before considering anything else. just me. If I had a 30-06 with optics to try that shot, I'd just go try it and see how it goes.
 
IF i was expecting a shot at 500yds, id probably opt for a rifle and load tailored to meet those requirements.
Now the 30-06 pushing a 180 along at 2800 would be plenty for that imo, as would a reasonable weight sporter with a scope in the 9-12 top end, and good glass.

Personally if the rifle, and optic werent set up for that particular type of hunting I would probably go ahead and pick up something new in a larger chambering (only if your comfortable with the increased recoil), that was closer to the heavy sporter/light varmint end of the spectrum and scope it appropriately.

A 300wm, or 300prc would probably be my first choices if I were looking at staying 30.
7mm Rem or 7 prc would my choices for going under 30.
Ive never used a .338, so my recommendation for heavier would be a .375 ruger or H&H.

Gun would be about 9-9.5lbs scoped with a 24-26" tube, scope would probably be a 14-20x top end, with decent turrets.

Again just my opinion.....im actually building my dad an "elk" rifle along those lines.....on the off chance we ever do hunt elk
 
LoonWulf said:
IF i was expecting a shot at 500yds, id probably opt for a rifle and load tailored to meet those requirements.
Now the 30-06 pushing a 180 along at 2800 would be plenty for that imo, as would a reasonable weight sporter with a scope in the 9-12 top end, and good glass.

Personally if the rifle, and optic werent set up for that particular type of hunting I would probably go ahead and pick up something new in a larger chambering (only if your comfortable with the increased recoil), that was closer to the heavy sporter/light varmint end of the spectrum and scope it appropriately.

A 300wm, or 300prc would probably be my first choices if I were looking at staying 30.
7mm Rem or 7 prc would my choices for going under 30.
Ive never used a .338, so my recommendation for heavier would be a .375 ruger or H&H.

Gun would be about 9-9.5lbs scoped with a 24-26" tube, scope would probably be a 14-20x top end, with decent turrets.

Again just my opinion.....im actually building my dad an "elk" rifle along those lines.....on the off chance we ever do hunt elk
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Is there even physically room for Elk in HI? :rofl:
 
270OKIE said:
Is there even physically room for Elk in HI? :rofl:
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Lol, theres at least one private herd on Maui. If my dad and I ever go elk hunting tho itll be on the mainland.

The 300prc also allows for higher bc bullets than my S20 7mag, so it will also serve as his longer long range gun in a heavier stock.
 
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LoonWulf said:
Lol, theres at least one private herd on Maui. If my dad and I ever go elk hunting tho itll be on the mainland.

The 300prc also allows for higher bc bullets than my S20 7mag, so it will serve as his longer long range gun in a heavier stock.
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Do you have a brake? If not, what’s the weight? I knew a guy that had a .30-378 Weatherby for 1,000 yard. He only shot it with the brake. Barrel life was about 800 rounds. Even with the brake it was “interesting” to shoot. It went away after the first barrel was gone.
 
I've thought a lot about replacing my 30-06 with something "better" like a 7 mag for elk hunting and it just never happens. There's the cost of the gun, scope, dies, brass, different powders etc. that add up and in the end I'm probably not going to ever take a shot over 400 yards anyway so the 30-06 has more than enough power.

The only elk hunt I've been on was with an outfitter. Cost a good bit of money and I figure if they can't get me within 200-300 yards they're not doing a very good job. Just my opinion. Also, the policy with an outfitter is generally if you draw blood you're done. Hunt is over whether you find the animal or not so there's no way I'm going to let a guide pressure me into taking a less than 99% shot. I saw that happen with a guy in my camp and that's not a good way to end a hunt. I don't know if he was pressured or not but it was a longish shot that ended up with a wounded elk. Also, in a situation like that the outfitter likely won't want to go tramping around the area for half a day tracking a wounded animal if they have other people coming in the following week. I would probably do the same.

If I'm going unguided I think you owe the animal a very high odds shot as well. There are people here who say they're capable of clean kills at 500 yards and beyond but that isn't me.
 
One of the moderators here, H&H Hunter, has taken at least 2 elk beyond 500 yards with his 308 and posted about it here. With the right load, a range finder, a scope that will allow you to compensate for bullet drop at long range, and with practice, your 30-06 is capable to at least 500 yards.

I might upgrade my optics, but if I liked the rifle I had, and if it shoots well I'd keep it. But if I just wanted a new rifle that might be lighter to carry, or more accurate then that is a good excuse to buy another. But something in 308, 270, 280, or 30-06 would still be my cartridge choice. I wouldn't move up to a 7mm or 30 caliber magnum unless I expected to, and had the skills, to take elk well past 500 yards.

FWIW, I don't have the skills to be shooting elk at 500 yards. I have had magnums in the past and 30-06 was my go-to rifle for years. But I made the move to 308 twelve years ago. With me pulling the trigger around 300, maybe 400 is as far as I'm comfortable with. The 308 does that easily and I just like it a smidge better than 30-06.
 
PapaG said:
If you aren’t comfortable with your normal gun at 500, a “little” more isn’t going to help. Premium 180s and practice is what you need. A new gun is nice but it isn’t a magic solution.
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I’m not looking for a magic solution, I stated I’ve found a range relatively close that will allow me to practice at 500 where I wasn’t able to before this hunt. My question is would I be better off with a rifle that will carry more energy at longer range with less drop or is the consensus the 30-06 is plenty capable at that range using quality bullets, with the guy behind the trigger putting in the time to be proficient.
 
redneck2 said:
Do you have a brake? If not, what’s the weight? I knew a guy that had a .30-378 Weatherby for 1,000 yard. He only shot it with the brake. Barrel life was about 800 rounds. Even with the brake it was “interesting” to shoot. It went away after the first barrel was gone.
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I have a few options for brakes, and when its being used as a range toy i expect he'll use one. Im shooting for 11-12lbs or so in that configuration so it shouldnt be super necessary. In hunting garb it should be about 9-10.
The .300prc we are using is basically a modernized 300winchester, only burns 75-80grs of powder at most.
The .30-378wby is one of the largest .30s im aware of, burns something in the 120-130range.
I dont feel a need to put up with that volume of powder usage (and the extra gun weight, cost, blast etc), but it would be a hell of an elk hammer with 225-230s.
 
30-06 has plenty of power for elk at 500 yards , just make sure you are using a good , accurate bullet . Past 350-400 yards you have to deal with trajectory no matter what your shooting , from a 300-378 to a 45-70 .What the trajectory is is not important . KNOWING what YOUR trajectory is , is vital . Good optics are your best investment if you want to be able to make a long range shot .
 
sabbfan said:
I’m not looking for a magic solution, I stated I’ve found a range relatively close that will allow me to practice at 500 where I wasn’t able to before this hunt. My question is would I be better off with a rifle that will carry more energy at longer range with less drop or is the consensus the 30-06 is plenty capable at that range using quality bullets, with the guy behind the trigger putting in the time to be proficient.
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The 30-06 is capable of handling the distance you want for elk. I have noticed in the past few decades for some reason or another that the paradigm changed in thinking that bigger or magnums were better. Don't know what caused this to happen. Also I've heard throughout the decades that a 30-30 is only a 150 yard rifle, just like the 22lr is only accurate to 50 yards...al BS in my opinion. I've killed deer beyond 200 yards with 30-30 and I break clay targets all day long at 250 yards with a ruger 10/22. Also I've taken pronghorn and Aoudad with my 30-06 at 450 and 560 yards easily.

Like I posted earlier knowing your rifle's capabilities is key and most important is that your rifle's scope has the ability to dial up the elevation needed for 500 yards. My scope I use for hunting is a 3-9X40 and I make sure that it has parallax adjustment knob and that at a minimum it has 80 moa of adjustment at a minimum and it is a Bushnell Banner that came with my Savage 110C pre-accutrigger I bought over 40 years ago, all is factory accept the muzzle break I put in when I dislocated my shoulder. I bought it for $189 back then. I know that with my 200 yard zero and my hand loads that I need to dial up 10.5 moa to hit 500 yards because each moa I dial up is 5 inches and my bullet will drop about 51 inches. Know your rifle and your scope, most importantly know the average speed of your rounds and you can dial in any distance you want and the only variables you will have to deal with is wind. I practice reading the wind by shooting my 22lr beyond 200 yards, all you need to do is invest time and practice , practice, practice.
 
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