USGS estimate of lead?

[taliv]

The U.S. Geological Survey estimates that nationwide there are 400,000 pieces of lead shot per acre in wild game territory that can be eaten or washed into waterways, and that the 60,000 metric tons of lead fired off in 2012 is second largest use of lead behind storage batteries.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...lead-bullets/?intcmp=latestnews#ixzz2fAoj2Qja

took me a few times to read this before i realized they don't mean "shot" as a verb but "shot" as a noun like #7 shot. how many pieces of shot are in an average game load?

still seems pretty high, unless they mean "since the beginning of time" instead of "per year" as they sort of imply.

 

[CoRoMo]

...400,000 pieces of lead shot per acre in wild game territory...

I'll hazard a guess that they generated their numbers by attempting to calculate how many lead pellets have been manufactured over the course of history and that probably entered the state of California. They then took that number and divided it by the 104,765,440 acres that makes up the state of California. This means they are estimating that 41.9 trillion lead shot pellets have been imported into the state of California over the last couple hundred years. In actuality, much of the lead shot in California will end up on trap fields or shooting ranges with some of it certainly ending up in the habitat of game birds.

...the 60,000 metric tons of lead fired off in 2012...

This one is a lot easier to work with and is slightly transparent. All they had to was add up how much lead is purchased by all the ammo manufacturers put together. They are not isolating this 60k tons to California soil. They are just throwing the number out there to be swallowed. They are not stating that this 60,000 tons of lead comes from shotshells, but simply that it was discharged from firearms last year. What they won't tell you is that the vast, enormous bulk of that number would have ended up on shooting ranges.

 

[22-rimfire]

Of course Jerry Brown will sign the bill. It fits his MO.

 

[Trent]

Typical media spin.

Where do they get lead from, anyway?

Doesn't.. it.. come from.... the ground?

 

[Outlaw Man]

Don't be so silly, Trent. You know we gun owners fabricate lead from thin air just like we do all those facts that say gun control increases crime.

:banghead:

 

[K1500]

Typical media spin.

Where do they get lead from, anyway?

Doesn't.. it.. come from.... the ground?

I agree with the sentiment, but that line of reasoning is specious. Arsenic, uranium, raw crude oil, and a number of other pollutants and toxins "come from the ground" but no one advocates spreading them all over the place after they are extracted and refined.

I believe the danger of lead poisoning from spent shot and bullets is VASTLY overstated and is used by antis to attempt to impose burdensome restrictions on sportsmen. That being said, use an argument that actually makes sense when arguing against restrictions on lead.

 

[Warp]

These kinds of numbers NEVER hold up to scrutiny and are virtually always used to mislead and deceive.

Nothing new here.

 

[Al Thompson]

My first thought was what per cent of ammunition is used by the military? And what sort of lead poisoning problems are they having in Europe, seeing as that's the most fought over place on the globe?

 

[Texan Scott]

Given the amount of lead discharged at Gettysburg, I'm sure Pennsylvania has three-eyed fish that climb up onto the riverbank to clip their toenails. A couple of our mods are from PA, I'm sure they can verify this.

 

[316SS]

These kinds of numbers NEVER hold up to scrutiny and are virtually always used to mislead and deceive.

Nothing new here.

And yet they will be cited over and over again long after they have been debunked. Just ask the 90% of Americans that support UBCs.

 

[Pudge]

400,000 pieces of lead shot per acre of wild game territory.

527 lead bb's in 1.25oz of #7 shot. That works out to 760 rounds per acre. In PA there are 1.4 million acres of State Game Lands, 2 million acres of State Forests, and about 500,000 acres of National Forest, for 400,000 bb's per acre that works out to just under 3 billion rounds. On public land, that doesn't count private land. 3 billion in PA on public lands. There are nearly 29.5 million acres in PA, so if half of those acres are in "wild game territory", what is that about 15 billion rounds? I'm not doing the math for Alaska.

When you look at global small arms ammo production, remove all steel and copper projectiles, and consider how many single projectile rounds it takes to equal an ounce and a quarter of #7, it is no wonder we can't find ammo on the shelves.

As for the concerns of lead in wild game: I retrieved the 150gr Core-Lokt slug that provided me with venison. It looked nothing like the one pictured in the article. It was on the ground (probably only 399,999 pieces of lead on that acre), not in the meat.

 

[medalguy]

Let's see, where I like to shoot we routinely dig lead out of the backstops, so working with 3,000 rounds of .45 shot per month, less the lead we mine from the backstops, let's see, carry the one, drop the 5, round off the 6, and you have.........a net loss of lead of about a pound a month. Sounds about right.

Next they will be complaining that the brass left on the ground contains traces of lead too, so we won't be able to use brass cases any more either. And of course the steel cases can cause tetanus if some kid picks up a rusty one and cuts his finger, and we know it's all about protecting the children after all, right?

 

[hso]

Doesn't.. it.. come from.... the ground?

:banghead:

 

[Archaic]

Well, as a mining geologist I have to weigh in here. I have done numerous stream sediment geo-chemical sampling jobs where we pan out and concentrate the heavy 'black sand' from stream bottoms and send them to a lab to get an idea of the minerals present in an area. We also spend a lot of time looking at the concentrate under a microscope.

I have seen streams in Arkansas where as much 10% of the weight of a sample was lead shot. I have almost never collected a pan full of material where I could not find some lead shot. In areas with a lot of historical waterfowl hunting, its significant (hence the move to steel shot.)

Lead is mined from the ground, but typically from depths that preclude contact with us surface dwellers. Additionally, lead in nature is usually found in the form of galena, a lead-sulfide mineral that is not water soluble - although elemental (pure metallic) lead is also not really water soluble either - so its not a big contaminant of groundwater.

The two big dangers of lead are organic lead (the old tetra-ethyl lead used in gasoline) and fine grained lead oxides which are easily ingested and dissolved by stomach acids.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the article, just throwing out what I know.

 

[hso]

Archaic,

Thanks for introducing some facts to counter the absurd "it occurs naturally" sort of foolishness.

 

[bergmen]

One question that comes to my mind when I see the "lead in ammunition as a poison" issue is this:

Humans have been hunting with lead projectiles for hundreds of years and eating the game killed by such. Are the hospitals crammed with people who have contracted lead poisoning as a result of this? So far, with the help of dramatic disinformation, the California Condor is said to be in peril due to ingesting particles of lead projectiles and contracting lead poisoning.

In addition, no mountain lions, buzzards, hawks, eagles, coyotes, etc. suffer from the same type of poisoning?

Dan

 

[AABEN]

Isn't there a law that says you can not use lead shot when duck hunting?

 

[AABEN]

One question that comes to my mind when I see the "lead in ammunition as a poison" issue is this:

Humans have been hunting with lead projectiles for hundreds of years and eating the game killed by such. Are the hospitals crammed with people who have contracted lead poisoning as a result of this? So far, with the help of dramatic disinformation, the California Condor is said to be in peril due to ingesting particles of lead projectiles and contracting lead poisoning.

In addition, no mountain lions, buzzards, hawks, eagles, coyotes, etc. suffer from the same type of poisoning?

Dan

I think that was DDT that killed them and a lot more!

 

[M2 Carbine]

I believe the danger of lead poisoning from spent shot and bullets is VASTLY overstated and is used by antis to attempt to impose burdensome restrictions on sportsmen.

Not overstated, it's just plain BS.

If lead was even a small fraction as bad as they want you to believe there would not be anyone alive from my generation (75).

As babies we LIVED in lead. Lead paint on everything we chewed on, walls, cribs, toys, everything.
Anyone ever hear of "tin soldiers"? They were cast of lead and painted with lead paint.
Many/most of our toys, and everything else, was painted with lead paint.

Even the auto gas contained lead.

Some shooters of my generation have been casting lead bullets for 40-50 years and more. we have been handling the lead bullets and breathing the fumes for many years with no problems.

For many years we shot lead bullets in poorly ventilated indoor gun ranges. I remember the gun smoke/ lead smoke in these ranges.

How about our houses.
The old houses had lead water pipes. Even the copper pipes had lead joints.
All our drinking water ran through lead.

So, either us seniors are really tough sons of guns, or the lead scare is mostly government BS.

And I ain't that tough.

 

[cbnoble]

Typical media spin.

Where do they get lead from, anyway?

Doesn't.. it.. come from.... the ground?

No. Medieval alchemy was out to prove that we could turn gold into lead. This provides a perfect explanation for the price of gold these days. It is because of the ammo shortage. Come to think of it, I may have this backwards. :banghead:[/sarcasm]

 

[paintballdude902]

cbnoble..... you just changed my entire understanding of the middle and dark ages.............


im not an old foggie like some of you guys (only 23) but i grew up in an old house... with lead paint.... i used to play with my dads old lead soldiers, grew up biting split shot to pinch it on fishing line, plus shoot, hunt, reload.. and just had fun melting lead from time to time(admit it, as a kid being able to melt metal was cool) and i have no ill-effects from it. im more worried about my pregnant wife eating tuna than i am of her handing a few pieces of lead from time to time.


on a side note i read an article a day or 2 ago citing the condor's failure to reproduce is related to eating dead sea lions near an area that had a massive (hundreds of tons) contamination of DDT back in the day. if anyone is interested PM me and ill find the article

 

[Hardtarget]

I just wonder how many tons of lead were shot all over Europe during WWI and WWII? Do you hear any talk about lead poison problems around all those European countries? In fact, I'm sure we would be stunned at the tonnage of lead shot during our own Civil War...and I don't see people dropping dead around hear.

Just makes me wonder.

Mark

 

[bainter1212]

My grandfather has spent his entire life shooting, casting bullets and fishing weights. He is still going strong at age 84.

I don't eat the stuff, but I do agree that the danger is probably overstated.