Using 'Filler'

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Oyeboten

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I can understand a use of filler, Cream of Wheat, or Corn Meal, for reduced Black Powder Loads, in Metallic Cartridge, where, OAL or other reason prohibits deep enough Bullet Seating to compress, and, eliminate Air Gap...


But, in a Cap and Ball Revolver...may one not simply seat the Ball or Bullet deeper into the Cylinder if using reduced Powder Loadings?
 
The problem is maybe your rammer will not seat the ball onto the powder, without that air gap. Some rammers only go so far, and may not fully seat the ball. The filler keeps the ball up higher, and prevents this. Lower your rammer into an empty chamber, and see where it stops. Remember that position, and make sure when you seat a ball that the rammer stops before that mark. If not then add some filler. I use wonder wads, and that seems to be enough filler for 18 gr and above for my Rems, 1851s, and 1860s.
 
There are those who believe, not without some evidence, that seating the ball close to the end of the chamber results in better accuracy. Since the most accurate load is rarely (like, never) a full chamber, seating the ball at the top of the chamber without an air gap requires the use of the filler.

Not everyone believes the effect exists; I can't shoot well enough to tell the difference, but there are many who swear by it.
 
Filler such as cream of wheat (my favorite) or corn meal can do several things to increase accuracy with cap and ball revolvers. Many reproduction revolvers have slightly tapered chambers. Seating the ball deeply makes it even more under size, reducing accuracy. Most repos also have chambers several thousandths under groove diameter as well. Fillers prevent gas blow- by in the first couple of inches before the ball slugs up to seal the grooves. This insures that the ball remains centered in the rifling, not squished to one side to let the high pressure gas escape.

Lastly, using filler with a reduced charge to get the ball just about even with the cylinder face reduces the velocity with which the ball encounters the forcing cone and origin of the rifling. This helps to prevent the ball from skidding or stripping as the rifling takes hold. Remember, the ball only grips the rifling with a very small band around its circumference, and soft lead is easily displaced.

If you have a chronograph, check the velocity you get with fillered loads. With my 1858 Remmy I find the same velocity (880fps) using 30 grains of FFFg and .454 round ball as I get with 22 grains of FFFg and 15 grains (measure) of cream of wheat. The COW load not only shoots more accurately but the bore stays cleaner as well.
 
Ahhhhhhhhh...


Okay...very interesting...makes sense.


Glad I asked!


Next time I am at the Grocery Store...I'm getting a box of Cream of Wheat.


Thanks!
 
There used to a breakfast cereal that advertised "shot from guns". Quaker puffed wheat and rice. I wonder if we used the right raw stuff, could we make our own cereal? Seriously, I have often read these posts about keeping the ball out close to the end of the chamber. I must try that. Nothing to lose, except a breakfast.
 
I ask this question out of ignorance, as I have put a deposit on an 1858 Remington New Army repro (in stainless steel). I don't have it yet in my possession, as I am awaiting our good Canadian government to process my PAL (possession and acquisition license). If you think dealing with ATF is cumbersome, Canadian firearm laws will make you think that ATF is a knight in shining armour!

In a previous post there was a detailed set of instructions on making paper cartridges using cigarette paper. I see this as a neat way to get around having to get a spare cylinder, as it only requires popping the cartridge in, then using the plunger to seat the ball and compress the powder. However, if you felt that filler was desirable, how would you go about doing this? Would you add it to the cartridge, or would doing so "dilute" the BP and adversely affect the propulsion?
 
On the Remington 1858 if you go below 30 grains of powder the rammer will not be able to push the ball all the way to meet with the powder. thus you either use a filler or do not shoot reduced loads. the 1858 has a very short ram rod.
 
how would you go about doing this?

Here's what it looks like:

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On the Remington 1858 if you go below 30 grains of powder the rammer will not be able to push the ball all the way to meet with the powder. thus you either use a filler or do not shoot reduced loads. the 1858 has a very short ram rod.

I've managed with 28 grains on my Ubertis but it's "just" there. Any less at all and there'd be an air gap. I really should get some lube wads done up so the ball doesn't seat so deep.

I'm shooting CAS with this load currently. But 30gns gives a fun'er bang.... :D
 
yes you can you can put several of them. however that will just act like a filler. might as well use oatmeal or cream of wheat. the cost is a heck of a lot less
 
Thanks A. Walker.

I see that your paper cartridges don't have the rounded ends that the other posting on them has. How do you go about making yours - i.e., the sequence. When and how much filler do you use?

Although it will likely be a couple of weeks until all the paperwork comes through for the repro Remington New Army I bought, I plan on starting to cast .454 balls in the coming week. I already have about 30 lbs of smelted lead from wheel weights.
 
Be carefull of the wheel weight lead I understand its not pure lead so its a little harder better suited for smokeless bullets.
 
I emphatically agree with TomADC about the wheelweights. You will not be happy with the loading process, trying to ram those hard WW balls into the chambers of your revolver. Use only pure, soft lead for revolver balls. If that is not available, try to get some lead from dental x-ray film. It isn't pure, but in my experience it is MUCH softer than wheelweight metal. I have used it often in the past for rifle, pistol, and revolver balls with satisfactory results.
 
I see that your paper cartridges don't have the rounded ends that the other posting on them has

These aren't my cartridges. It just so happens that I don't have any made uo at the moment. This is just a picture I saved as a demonstration on how to do it. However, I have used this method with the same results, and that is to use a tube rather than a dowel to form the cartridge. The end is twisted closed so that it is slightly "dished" inwards, and that's where you get that sharp bottom edge. Then, the BP (20 gr) is poured down the tube and tamped down, followed by the filler, and I've used anywhere from ten to fifteen grains here depending on what filler I'm using. A little more for Cream of Wheat, a little less for Instant Grits, mainly due to differences in compressibility.
 
Go to Home Hardware and tell them you need a lead pipe flashing. It is made from pure lead. It's not cheap, but it's not bad either. I get about 150-175 out of a boot.

If you have some friends that are in the roofing bussiness ask them to save the old ones for you.

Also look around for older houses that are being remodeled. The toilets use to have a lead ring not wax.
 
If you have access to an outdoor range; collect the jacketed bullets. I go to our range after a rain as the bullets are washed out of the berms. The cores of most jacketed bullets are very soft lead at least soft enough for B/p use. Be sure to de temper your bullets if you quench when you cast, as water quenched pure lead is considerably harder than air cooled. De tempering only requires it to be placed in an oven for an hour at 360 degrees and leave in oven til room temp.
 
There are several guys selling pure lead ingots on evil bay pretty cheap, cheaper than buying pipe flashing.
True, shipping to Canada will be expensive though. Mine is just a quick fix until a cheaper source can be found. I've bought a box of .36 just to melt it cause I was having a hard time finding lead close to home.
 
Thanks for the comments and heads up about using lead smelted from wheel weights. I had been to a demo of this, and was given about 50 lbs or so of "ingots" (muffin tin castings). I was thinking of casting these into balls for a .44 NA Remington I am getting. One of the comments made at the time of the demo was that if pure tin was added, it would slightly soften the lead and make it flow easier. I was even given some tin to try this with. Another solution by one of the guys in my gun club was to melt down pure lead taken from the berm behind the targets (particularly those that were jacketted) and add them to the WW lead to soften it.

Until I get all my ducks lined up, which will likely take a couple of weeks, I'll probably just buy some .454 lead balls from Gander Mountain (there's one in Watertown NY - about 2-1/2 drive from me).
 
Wheelweight is the hardest lead I'd use, but only if it were all I had.
Pure, dead-soft lead is much preferred.
Don't equate your cap and ball revolver's consumption with a modern firearm. You'll shoot far fewer projectiles with a cap and ball revolver because of the time involved loading it.
It will take a few hours to shoot 100 balls; in a modern pistol you can go through that many rounds in a few minutes.
A "seed stock" of 500 .454-inch balls will provide plenty of shooting fun.
The loading process is as involved and time-consuming as you want to make it. Myself, because I strive for accuracy, I take my time. Takes me anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes to load six chambers in my Remington, depending on how meticulous I get.
I use greased, wool felt wads I punch myself. Wool felt is hard to find anymore, most felt nowadays is polyester. I buy wool felt in 1/8-inch thick sheets from Durofelt, in Little Rock, Arkansas.
I use a .45-caliber punch from Buffalo Arms to punch them out, with a small log as backing.
Or, you can buy Ox-Yoke "Wonder Wads" in .45 caliber. These contain a dry lubricant I'm not fond of. Black powder fouling is best kept soft, and therefore more easily removed, with moist lubricants.
The best lubricant I've found is homemade. It was named after me as "Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant" but I didn't wholly invent the recipe.
I found the recipe in a 1943 gun magazine, where its ingredients were simply listed as tallow, paraffin and beeswax.
Striving for the purest and finest ingredients, I mixed mutton tallow, canning paraffin (because it's pure paraffin and who knows what's in old candles, especially the scented variety) and real beeswax.
Real beeswax is another item sometimes difficult to find. Toilet seals used to be made of it, but have gone synthetic. Search Renaissance Fairs, Mountain Man Rendezvous and crafts expositions for real beeswax. Or you may find a local beekeeper who'll sell you a pound.
Mutton tallow is sold by Dixie Gun Works; it's the only source I've found.
Canning paraffin, the kind used to seal the mouths of jars of preserves, is sold in 1-pound bricks in grocery stores.
Measure the ingredients on a kitchen scale. I use grams because it's easy to measure weights. Amounts in this following recipe are based on weight, not volume.

To nearly fill a quart Mason jar, use 200/200/100 grams of ingredients:
1 part paraffin (200 grams)
1 part mutton tallow (200 grams)
1/2 part beeswax (100 grams)

Place the ingredients in a glass, widemouth Mason jar. Place the jar in a pan with 3 or inches of boiling water. When all ingredients are melted, stir well with a clean stick or disposable chopstick.
Allow to harden at room temperature. Hastening hardening by placing the jar in the fridge may cause the ingredients to separate.

The result is a lubricant with the consistency of lard, neither overly hard or soft.

Now, get a clean tuna or cat food can. Melt about 2 Tablespoons of lubricant in the can at very low heat over the stove. Add 50-100 wads and stir them around so they are thoroughly soaked. Remove from heat and allow to harden at room temperature. Snap a plastic pet-food lid over the can and you're ready to go.
As you run out of greased wads, just add more, more lubricant, and remelt as needed.
I've never experienced this lubricant going rancid, and I live in the remote Utah desert where it can get so hot that the Devil carries a fan.

In use, place a measured amount of FFFG black powder in the chamber. Thumb in a greased wad. Seat the wad firmly on the powder. Seat the .454 or 457 inch ball. Cap the revolver and you're ready to shoot. There is no need to put lubricant over the ball if you use a greased wad twixt ball and powder.
The wool wad, especially when used with Gatofeo No. 1 lubricant, will keep the bore clean shot after shot. This lubricant is also good for lead bullets used with black powder, patches for round ball rifles and pistols, and felt or fiber shotgun wads used with black powder.

I find that using wads is slightly cleaner and easier than squeezing lubricant over the revolver's seated ball. I believe that the wad actually scrapes black powder fouling from the bore with each shot, though it seems counterintuitive since it's in front of the black powder.
I've recovered many wool felt wads with a negative impression of the rifling around their edges. This tells me that the wad gets down deep into the grooves.

Cap size is dictated by the nipples in your revolver. Buy both No. 10 and 11 so you can determine which is best. The ill-suited caps can still be used to snap on the nipples before loading, to clear the ignition path.

One last note: Don't buy .451 inch balls for your Remington, unless it's all you can find. Best accuracy will be found with slightly larger balls. I use .454 and .457 inch balls in mine. Gave up on .451 balls long ago.

Hope all of this helps. If you search "Gatofeo cap and ball" on the internet you'll find other posts of mine with even more information.

Have fun with that Remington. I'm sure you'll end up hooked like the rest of us.
Welcome to the Realm of the Brimstone Blasters, my friend! :evil:
 
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