Utah specific/general CCW question

[YK]

First of, for moderators: I am not sure if this belongs here or to "Legal", please place this thread as you see fit.

During a recently taken state-mandated CCW class - I've just moved to the state - a discussion came up for which I don't have a good answer.

Suppose a person who carries concealed (with permit) exposes the firearm, accidentally or not. Say, it is very hot outside and the person feels like he/she is about to pass out unless he/she takes off the jacket. The firearm is now exposed.

Is there a violation of any law [I am not discussing common sense issues here ] considering that Utah is an open-carry state?

I am interested in Utah laws specifically, although this is probably applicable to any state with concealed and open carry options.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I wouldn't be terribly worried about that.

Correia is one of the top instructors in the state, so he'll likely chime in soon. But unless you're actually waving the gun around, I can't see you getting charged with brandishing anywhere around here. (Well, you might get harrassed by the cops in downtown Salt Lake, but anywhere else in the state? Doubt it. Maybe Park City, but that's where all the yuppie Californians live.)

I have friends that open carry everywhere.

 

[JKimball]

I live in Utah, but I got my CCW permit while I lived in Arizona. (I didn't get a Utah permit when I moved here because of reciprocity.) The instructor in AZ said something about the Utah laws that would get you in trouble if the wind blows your jacket open and someone sees your gun. I thought that was strange, so when I moved up here I contacted the BCI (I think that's who regulates the permits) and posed that question to them and the person I was talking to said that no that wasn't a problem and that I could open carry if I want. In AZ you don't need a permit to open carry, but I think in Utah if you want to open carry with a bullet in the chamber you may need a permit.

Also, I don't think this is what you're referring to, but let's say you get in a little argument with somebody in the Walmart parking lot and you pull back your jacket to show them your gun, that is probably illegal (assuming they haven't threatened you.) But I'm looking forward to Correia or someone setting things straight.

 

[Nightcrawler]

but let's say you get in a little argument with somebody in the Walmart parking lot and you pull back your jacket to show them your gun, that is probably illegal (assuming they haven't threatened you.)

Yes, that would be illegal. If you're not in any danger, flashing a weapon is brandishing and can get you arrested.

It can also get you shot. A lot of people carry here; trying to intimidate folks with a gun in Utah is a good way to end up staring down the barrel of a .357.

 

[Correia]

Okay, this is how it works.

Utah is an open carry state. Open carry is legal. But with two caveats. If you're going to be on a public street, you must be "unloaded" which in Utah means 2 mechancial actions away from firing, and the gun must be totally in the open.

CCW comes along, and the CCW law basically says that you can A. Now conceal your gun. B. Carry it fully loaded in public. So once you have a permit, you can conceal, and have a round in the chamber, ready to roll.

So you can still carry openly in Utah, even with a permit. Just because you get a permit, you're not giving up any rights.

Now the question that creeps in is about the stupid 2 mechancial actions. Some people in this state are confused about this, and the Attorney General hasn't issued a ruling about it. Some folks say, we'll if I open carry, I can't be loaded, even with a permit.

Nowhere in the law does it state permit holders must be 2 mechancial actions when openly carrying. At all.

There has been some arguing about this at the state level, but like I said, no official ruling.

As it stands right now, people open carry every day, in most of Utah with no trouble at all. The only places I would advise against it would be the places where obviously it is illegal to have a gun period (which your class should have covered) and in places where the populace is going to freak out and call the SWAT team as soon as they see a gun. And when they call the cops, it won't be, oh, there's a nice man here at the magazine rack reading a gun magazine who just happens to have a gun on a belt, it will be, OH MY GOD HE'S GOT A GUN COME SAVE US!!!

But in 99% of Utah you can open carry and nobody cares. Open carry is a whole 'nother ball of wax, so I would suggest that if you're going to do it, be conversant in the state laws for when you do come into contact with law enforcement.

As for brandishing, that is when you reveal your gun for something other than lawful self defense. i.e. to solve an argument, or intimidate somebody. If the gun is exposed on accident, cover it back up, and be cool. If you're cool, they'll probably be cool. If you freak out, they freak out.

Hell, read my thread here in General about when I dropped my Makarov on the floor at my local grocery store.

 

[YK]

Thank you for excellent explanation.