Vandalism and stupid kids

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A couple weeks ago we wake to our baby crying. My wife goes to check on him and notices a car and two kids out and smashing things against our mailbox or she thinks maybee the car. She thinks they are baseball bats and yells for me as she runs out the front door. She said that they looked like kids so she was not afraid to just run out there and use her mommy voice to scare them off. Of course I follow and grab my 45 on the way after her. The second they hear her, they run off, and in the 5 seconds that I am delayed they are gone.
Turns out they were smashing the 4 or 6 foot flourecent bulbs and got that crap all over the street, the sidwalk and my walkway and grass.

Things that need improvement:
  • My gun needs to be easier and faster to access
  • Dogs are useless they slept through the whole ordeal, with the yelling and comotion
  • My wife needs to stop runnning out there just like that
  • I need a way to know if someone is around the house. I'm thinking a couple of cameras or maybee motion sensors.

Good news is that once the PD was called they were here in 2 minutes, but of course the punks were gone by then.

Note: a 45 being having it's slide slung shot is the loudest noise at 12 am. I am rethinking getting my shotty as the night gun as there is no good shooting angles on my street, everything that stray would hit a house.

Now I am thinking, is this just some punks being stupid, or was this something else?
 
I'm sure it's punks being stupid, I'm also sure that had your wife not run out the door you'd have all the time you needed to get your pistol. Wife needs remedial training but other than that you're good.
 
Vandals

You are only partly right.

The dogs were no help.
The wife shouldn't have gone out, although it worked.
Motion sensors connected to lights/cameras would be a help.

I don't know what state or neighborhood you live in, but in my state vandalism does not justify lethal force.
 
Now I am thinking, is this just some punks being stupid, or was this something else?
Click to expand...
I vote for "stupid." The world has too much malice, but I think there is way more stupidity out there.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice. or ... but keep your eyes open. (See Hanlon's AKA Heinlein's Razor)

Mailboxes seem to be a common target for vandals. Maybe have one welded up out of well casing or some such material. That could cause the baseball bat bozos some stinging hands if/when they whack it.
Aiming motion detectors toward the mailbox will probably pick up the movement of every passing car, etc., and get really annoying after awhile. But you can probably place something so that if someone actually comes up onto the property, it'll trip a "real" alert. Can the car be moved closer up onto your curtilage where anyone approaching it will trip a second level of detector?

Do be careful with racking slides or anything that might later be construed by somebody (little germs' lawyers) as "threatening display of a weapon." I'm sure you know the line between what force can be used for "simple" vandalism versus a home invasion, but I have to toss the comment out there. I will agree that jacking in a round (or seeming to) sure is an attention-getter. :evil:
 
Shooting at the punks for beating on a mailbox won't justify using deadly force, but if/when they do get caught consider bringing a suit against the parents for damages, or when they go to court ask for compensation.

Chances are they have parents that don't care, until junior Junior costs THEM some money.

If they are 18 or over you can go after their butts.
 
You really need to get someone out there to clean up the mess they made. Fluorescent lighting is full of mercury and is really quite toxic. You don't want your kids playing in it, do you?

It's also an ecological nightmare. See if you can't find a hazardous materials cleanup crew in your area. Whatever you do, for the love of all that is good, don't wash it away with a hose so it gets into the ground water.

And you did the right thing, I think.
 
Let me clarify my wife yells: "They are hitting the car with baseball bats!!!!" and runs out the door. I was not intent on using force against some vandals for vandalism, but I am not about to try to talk it out with some punks that may be in front of my house with baseball bats intent on who knows what. After the fact it turned out to be flourescent tubes. Hindsight is 20/20.

The muzle never came up, my finger was never on the trigger.

So let me ask what would you do if you were in that situation with such limited knowledge?
 
I can give you advice having been a teen vandal (years ago :rolleyes:) and now as a homeowner with a family.

I would be careful about confronting vandals with a firearm. This also goes the same for physically confronting teens- grabbing their arm ("you're coming with me young man"), tackling them, detaining them, etc. Your wife actually did the right thing- the majority of teens run like rabbits with a verbal confrontation. The only thing she could have done better was getting a license plate first before yelling.


Personally, I could see the precaution of CCWing a pistol when going out to confront teens, but the old days of Old Man Higgins running out with a double-barreled shotgun ("get off my property you d-mn kids!") is over. Kids today would quickly play the victim role and be eager to accuse you of aiming a gun at them, etc, just to see you face charges.


I need a way to know if someone is around the house. I'm thinking a couple of cameras or maybe motion sensors.
Click to expand...

+1. Motion sensors with flood lights are excellent. You would be amazed at how quickly it will drive away kids at night. Nothing is more inviting than a dark yard for kids (makes them feel anonymous and confident). A flood light going off as they creep up towards your house (same with a burglar) and they panic and run :eek:- they don't know if the light went on due to a person inside or not. It is far easier for marauding teens to simply find an easier target.
 
You did it the right way -even if you aren't happy with it.

Running outside in the middle of the night is not a smart move for either of you, if you didn't get your pistola, then both of you would have been caught outside without any means of defense.

Taking this time gave the kids a chance to get away, which is probably the best thing, you certainly wouldn't have wanted to shoot any of them for busting bulbs on your property (no matter how much you may want to).

In addition to outside lights, add a powerful flashlight to your nightstand such as a Streamlight or Surefire so that both you and your wife can properly identify who is out there.
 
Just think what would happen if you had an audio amplifier with microphone, speaker outside, and you racked the slide of your shotgun. The police might be able to trace the morons a ways just from the brown trail they left. :D

Yes, tell your wife you want her around for at least long enough to finish raising the kids. That firmly implies not running outside and yelling at a bunch of thugs. :)
 
I like the idea of a thin "bladder" containing india ink, attached to the side of your mailbox, and painted or otherwise colored to blend in. The bladder would have a weak spot, pointed towards the road, so that when someone tries to smash your mailbox with a bat, they get blasted with ink. Should be pretty for the cops to find them at that point, if you have even a rough description of the car.

As far as going out there, I think you did the right thing, I would have too. Call me old-fashioned. I think taking a gun with you is prudent, although I would have the weapon concealed.
 
or.....

You could do what we did at the ranch in Montana....

We had problems with human debris running over our mailbox as it was a looong way from the house on the road. So, we build one out of steel, hollowed out 2 2x4s to cover the 2" pipe, and made the base out of a webbing of steel rods, random hunks of metal and anything else we could weld up. This ball of twisted metal went into the ground, spike everywhere....

Well, went out there one day, they knocked it over again.... but this time, there were shreds of tire, part of a bumper and several twisted pieces of sheet metal that looked awfully familiar....

Well, a call to the Sheriff and to the moron's parents and it never happened again.
 
I am of the opinion that it was a mistake for your wife to go outside and confront the vandals. Sure, they may have looked like harmless kids but that doesn't mean they are incapable or unwilling to commit violence against ya'll.

It's also hard to stop vandels, especially if it takes the cops any amount of time to get there. And taking any kind of action against them is a liability nightmare. And if you ever get enough evidence and get the cops to do something about it, the parents will definitely show up to say that their kids were perfect little angels who would never do something like that, and in fact, their kids were at home, tucked into bed, dreaming sweet innocent dreams.
 
My $.02, you did it fine. You made it through with no one getting hurt, and learned what needs to be done better. Right that the wife shouldn't blindly charge into an unknown situation. And, you were right to arm yourself just in case. You didn't brandish or anything else that would cause you trouble. But the "what ifs" make an available handgun seem prudent.
 
What Ol Fluff said. Find out who they are and sue the parents - if they have anything worth going after. Prosecute the kids; who knows, a conviction might cost them the scholarship to that elite school they so wanted to attend.
 
i probably would have stayed inside and called 911. try to see the license plate and discription of the people. hopefully, the cops will catch them by surprise.
 
Oh for the old days,

I only almost got shot with rock salt once! If I had been slower it wouldn't have been almost. When we complained (my sidekick was watching) my Dad reamed us for being on his property and made us go and apologize. That serving of crow sufficed me for life and I am bitter that I don't get to pepper (or salt) some young punk wannabes' posterior.If I did that now, I'd go to jail.:fire: Iirc mailboxes are federal property and the postmasters' private police can be called in. I doubt they'll pay for clean-up or replacing one but if they can find the perps......
 
No mercury.

Don't worry much about the flourescent tube mercury---it is mostly a GAS and dissipates rapidly. Only a fraction is left on all of those horrible glass shards left over. If it is any consolation, those vandals probably inhaled quite a dose of the mercury gas, and are now even stupider than they were before......................elsullo :(
 
For vandals a low light video recorder from inside the house would be just the ticket. Hard for little "spoiled rotten" to deny he was there or blame you for something when we can always GO TO THE TAPE.


Len
 
Not that a weapon would have be appropriate in this case, but you should consider carrying your weapon on your person while at home. You never know how little time you will have to react to something amiss. Being at home doesn't mean you can lock the weapons up and go to condition green. Homes are invaded while the occupants are insude all the time.
 
We sometimes have vehicles stop in front of our home at late hours (on a small dead end road with 3 other neighbors) and I have asked my wife to never go outside, and to turn off the lights in the room she is in. Instead, we've agreed that it's best to stay inside, be quiet, be hidden by darkness, and watch what they are doing. We have a video camera, so while one of us gets that turned on and pointed out an open window, the other of us calls the cops if deemed necessary.

I am very leery of going outside - alone or with the wife. You never know if it's someone making noise to get you to walk out the door, while there buddy is standing by the side of the door to hit you with a bat or worse.

In addition, staying hidden prevents the visitors from identifying me or my wife for future harassment or worse. If they don't know who called the cops I feel they are less likely and able to come back to cause trouble again.

If they were smashing my car, I'll let 'em. I have insurance which is far cheaper than a lawsuit for shooting some stupid kids.
 
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