Verbal judo and staying alive.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

I hadn't heard of this; an assistant federal attorney was kidnapped back in 1998 off the streets of New York City but a trio of gang banger with intent to force him to pull cash from his ATM... and then it gets weird.

Memoir of a kidnap victim
The Birthday Party is Stanley N. Alpert's true story of the night in 1998 he was kidnapped in New York by gang members. They made Alpert, an assistant federal attorney, take money from an ATM, and when they saw he had $110,000 in his account, they drove him to an apartment while they came up with a plan to get the money.
Alpert had to employ every psychological trick in the book to keep his captors from killing him.
​

Full review of the book with more details here.

I've always been a fan of verbal judo; and I'm pretty sure that everyone reading this would rather talk their way out of a confrontation rather than using lethal force (though back-up plans are sure nice). This sounds like a great example of using your wits to stay alive and is definitely on my short list of books to pick up.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

Verbal Judo was designed IMO to be used on people who have the ability to rationalize. Most criminals especially the ones prone towards violence to include those who would commit a forcible felony really cannot grasp what you are trying to say to them, you are trying to communicate in a manor which requires the person you are using your Gerbil Voodoo skills on to think, rationally I might add.

When I’ve attempted to use it even in a very basic form I usually ended up getting interrupted about two words into my statement or the recipient responded, asking me what the F#$%K I was talking about which immediately led me to the conclusion that he/she was just not smart enough to grasp what was going on.

Verbal Judo is great for talking with an intelligent, rational person who is only sitting on the fence about signing a traffic citation and you begin to explain to them why the law requires it and how the law also requires them to post a cash bond if they refuse to sign.

But it don’t work very well when dealing with your local homeless drunk who has you cornered demanding you give him a dollar or the dumbass gangbanger running on pure adrenaline who’s attempting to pull a strong arm robbery on you.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

I agree completely that opponents need to at least be speaking the same language, and yeah, there's a cognitive disconnect between a federal attorney and a street thug, but this guy kept his wits and survived. And it sounds like his ability to think fast on his feet was a large part of it.

 

[torpid]

Verbal judo may be improved by reinforcing it with actual judo.

 

[mbt2001]

Uhhh...

"If you take that money, Big Louie will find you and fit you for a cement komono..." (Posing as if I work for Big Louie).

 

[How you gonna get down that hill]

Feel free to quote me

"Never reason with a drunk or a juvenile." expand on this as you feel necessary.

Go hands on immediately. Old timers knowledge.

Is there anything I can say that will help you comply....hahahaha....sir comply...sir stop resisting....hahhaha.

Prosecutions question to witnesses at sceene (while smiling at jury): What were the officers saying? "Well....they were asking him if there was anything that they could say or do that would make him"...stop, start, sit, stand, insert your own verb here.......

 

[strambo]

Point #1: Ultimately you cannot control the thoughts and actions of others. No matter how good it seems to be going on the "verbal" front, always expect a physical attack until you are out of the situation.

Point #2: Verbal judo does indeed work on irrational, drugged up and crazy people. You talk to their level and state of mind.

Crazy: "The police are after me, they want to get me" Hosp. Employee: "Well, I'm not a police officer, I'm just here to make sure you are safe. I won't let the police come in here, they have no right to see you (true if he isn't accused of a crime, never lie), now the nurse is gonna give you a shot to relax, can you be calm for her?" -example conversation to a crazy patient in a hospital Notice I did not argue with him that the police aren't actually after him...It's not about who's right or wrong, his fears are real to him.

With criminals, you just state what you want/will do while being ready to take them out at the first sign of attack. They will either attack you or not. Speak in a calm, confident voice. If you are calming someone down, lower your voice and speak softly. If you want to shock someone and turn the table, speak in a loud, forcefull Drill Sergeant type voice and be ready to throw down if they don't immediately cease their aggression.

Verbal judo is most usefull when dealing with crazy or unruly people, emotional people. It is least usefull dealing with violent criminals who's objective is your $$ or your life. In the case of the kidnap victim, it helped him not say the wrong things. Basically, do the opposite of what Hollywood heroes do when kidnapped. Be calm, try to find common ground and relate to your captors. Humanize yourself and them. Don't lie to appease them (saying you agree with their position when you don't) don't talk politics or religion. Things like: "I understand what you are saying, I would be upset if "X" happened to me as well" then change the subject...

 

[razorburn]

The lawyer managed to do it on the thugs who'd captured him...

 

[DesertShooter]

I attended the course that was taught by Dr. George himself. It DOES work on drunks and drugged-out imbeciles most of the time, but not always. Every time I used it, I had to come up with the proper volume and speed of speaking, and when you figure those out, the results start to show almost immediately.

 

[dfaugh]

Never heard the term "verbal Judo" before, nordid I read the article.

But I did study the martial arts for years.

And one of the key things (and it's gotten me outa trouble more than onec), is to IMMEDIATELY, go on the offensive. Move INTO (verbally or physically) right into the attackers space. I've done this with multiple potential "attackers" and they always backed down.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Verbal "judo"-Lingustics-communication skills

I'm do not know exactly what the phrase "verbal judo" means. I have heard of US law enforcement using communication skills to de-escalate some situations. I recall a dispute I had with a female LEO over this subject a few years back while working as a security officer. We were dealing with a subject who was verbally abusive and screaming insults. The LEO ignored basic facts and information, then made a big deal over her "conflict resolution skills" . I think most incidents can be resolved with common sense and good judgement.

BTW: I read in the novel; Protector about some fancy Dan program in AZ or NM that teaches a "lingustic" method for dealing with critical incidents. The author credits this group in the front of the book. They also state they train many sworn LEOs and spec ops military units.

Rusty S

 

[IfYouOnlyKnew]

Crisis Prevention Institute sells and trains a proprietary approach for mental health techs, etc designed to descalate potentially violent situations. They stress being aware that such situations normally follow a regular pattern of escalation which can be interrupted. They also stress the importance of the nonverbal (body language) and paraverbal (volume, cadence, etc) parts of overall communication. When I was trained in it, several of my classmates were LEO's who were sent there as a result of legal actions against their departments when suspects, etc were subjected to pain compliance techniques rather than a more informed understanding of how and why people become violent. Doesn't always work but is useful many times. I trained fellow staff members in my office because we did not have access to the continuum of force in our line of work. It also included basic escape techniques (self defense) and physical restraint techniques (which we also were prevented from using.) Just another tool in the box.

 

[Manedwolf]

And one of the key things (and it's gotten me outa trouble more than onec), is to IMMEDIATELY, go on the offensive. Move INTO (verbally or physically) right into the attackers space.

Sounds like a way to get a knife between the ribs, IMO. I've always figured that if they're inside 30 feet, I'm in serious trouble and need to stop them before they get any closer. Hence, firearm. If it's not a seemingly-lethal attack, you just don't LET them get closer, keep backing and putting objects between yourself and them, don't let yourself be cornered.

 

[308win]

They stress being aware that such situations normally follow a regular pattern of escalation which can be interrupted.

And, this pattern is?

 

[Sniper X]

The APD ( Albuquerque Police Department) must read the oppisite book titled "how to verbally escalate a traffic stop inot a shooting incident" from what I've seen. Shoot, I don't know where they are getting these guys but most I hear of have the communication skills of the nearest gang banger....overly macho, and full of " I am a badass cop" attutude...sad because it was only about 10~15 years ago all cops I came in contact with were great communicators and very nice and professional people.

 

[IfYouOnlyKnew]

308win

Try www.crisisprevention.com. I am looking at my instructor booklet now but answering your question would violate copyright laws so I can't respond directly. It's a structured version of the "basic knowledge" and "common sense" mentioned earlier. I distinctly remember my intial fellow trainees who were LE stating they knew pressure point techniques that would get the same results faster. It also got them sued frequently. Professionals who deal with disturbed clients but don't have a fully equipped gun belt, radio, or backup were more responsive.

 

[answerguy]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Try www.crisisprevention.com. I am looking at my instructor booklet now but answering your question would violate copyright laws so I can't respond directly. .

Why are you under the impression that sharing knowledge from something you read would violate any copyright law?

 

[strambo]

that teaches a "lingustic" method for dealing with critical incidents.

That field is called "neurolinguistics" and is something totally different. "Neurolinguistics" is basically (real basic) positive self-talk, but more precise and focused. It is used to help control, eliminate fear. (I read that book too BTW, Morrell is one of my favorites )

Example: You see a big fella step towards you with a pipe and scream insults, getting ready to swing. Natural reaction is to think "I need to defend myself." Neurolinguistic reaction is "I'm gonna take him out." You focus on a positive action you are going to take...you don't focus on trying to stop someone else from doing something.

That is probably so simple an example as to do injustice to the field, I'm no expert, but that's a better idea at least.

"Verbal Judo" is just verbal de-escalation skills or verbal skills in general for handling/guiding tense situations. It has nothing to do with actual strategies for physical violence, it is an effort to avoid going physical (usually) which isn't entirely in your control. Plan "B" is to go hands on when the verbal skills don't work.

 

[bogie]

Funny, but in my limited martial arts experience, what I really took away was "avoid conflict until conflict cannot be avoided."

 

[Optical Serenity]

I've taken the verbal judo course, and my police chief decided I should, it wasn't really by choice. I'm glad I took it....BUT, it doesn't always work.

In fact, people have to understand that in the course of what you say, there is a reason you end up saying "Sir, is there anything I can do to change your mind?" and all that is, is a signal to the other Officers / people on scene that you are about to take physical control of the situation.

All too often admin / chiefs / people / clowns think that just because you are verbal judo certified you should be able to play jedi mind tricks on everyone. And holy shish kabob if they don't behave the way they ought to.

Verbal judo has saved my butt many times, but many times it also didn't work. In fact, usually it just serves as a buffer that allows for backup to arrive before going forward. And that makes it worth it.

 

[John C]

Where can I take a verbal judo class? What are the institutes or training groups that host classes?

Thanks,

-John

 

[shooter71]

"el habla , Smith & Wesson"

 

[expvideo]

There's a lot to be said for verbal judo. When I was in my late teens I begged my father to buy me a handgun (teenage logic, go figure). He told me that I had to wait until I was 21. I was furious with him (teenage logic again) and argued that I needed one. He said that before I should learn to use a gun, I should first learn to not use one. Now I'm 23 and I've been carrying for a couple years. I am very thankful for my father's phylosophy, and I've found it to get me out of more problems than anything else. Thanks to having to learn to fight with words, I've been able to stop problems before they happen and keep myself safe. It was worth the wait and worth the study. I'm glad my father is so stubborn

 

[dfaugh]

Sounds like a way to get a knife between the ribs, IMO. I've always figured that if they're inside 30 feet, I'm in serious trouble and need to stop them before they get any closer. Hence, firearm.

Like I said, too many of us "rely" on firearms. What if he's too close (well inside your 30')? If i'm "inside" his compfortable reach, he's mine.

Funny, but in my limited martial arts experience, what I really took away was "avoid conflict until conflict cannot be avoided."

You're correct---I was referring to those "unavoidable" situations

 

[springmom]

I would take verbal judo, but my verbal knees won't take the punishment

But seriously, how much of this is just thinking fast on your feet? Common sense? And not a small amount of luck...because ISTM that if the bad guy you're trying this on is wired up on meth or crack, his reasoning skills are going to be less than if it is just some guy robbing a bank stone cold sober.

Springmom