Paul Harrell tested some recently as well, with impressive results on his "meat target" which is supposed to simulate a live target.
That appears to be the standard pressure non +P load, but yes that too looks quite effective.
Paul Harrell tested some recently as well, with impressive results on his "meat target" which is supposed to simulate a live target.
But I very much doubt 6gr of Unique will push them to 1000 fps in a snub nose 38 though.
So, here's the product page for what I think is being discussed (20H/20, not the milder 20A/20 in the picture): 38 SPL +P OUTDOORSMAN 158 gr. Hard Cast Keith 1,250 fps158 @ 1100 fps was the old .38-44 load. Which came with the headstamp implication (the '44') that it was to be used in 44-size frame revolvers.
If BB doesn't advise users to do the same thing, I guess it means they think all .38 revolvers are up to the task.
This load was designed for those who need a deep penetrating 357 mag. or 38 SPL load to be fired from lightweight alloy 357’s and any 38 SPL revolver. Lightweight alloy 357’s develop multiple problems when firing our 180gr. 357 mag. hard cast turbo charged (Item 19A) ammo or any make of full power 357 ammo. Yet many folks want a deep penetrating “outdoor” type of load for their lightweight pocket 357’s, so here it is. Whether you are shooting gators or bears in the head, this load utilizes a hard flat nosed bullet, at sufficient velocity, even from 2-inch barrels, to fully penetrate either.
This load is safe to shoot in all 38SPL and 357 magnum firearms of modern design that are in normal operating condition. In the super lightweight alloy revolvers (around 11-12 oz.) the bullet will not jump crimp under recoil provided you do not subject an unfired round to more than 5 or 6 firings. In all steel guns, even short barreled ones, crimp jump is not an issue as all steel snub nosed revolvers are much heavier than the alloy versions.
This load utilizes a flash retardant powder that will not blind the shooter in low light conditions, which is important as wildlife and criminals get much more active when darkness comes.
This bullet is hard cast and properly lubed and as such will not substantially lead your barrel. You should find no degradation of accuracy when firing many cylinders full of this ammo without cleaning.
We never use extra long laboratory barrels to produce our advertised velocities, which we feel is dishonest to the customer as those extra long barrels produce extra high velocities, which you cannot duplicate with stock revolvers in the real world. Instead, we use stock firearms and you can see the velocity results below.
What the hell are you guys talking about??
Yeah, more like, "I'd rather have a bear chew my arm off." They are NOT fun to shoot in a light J frame.I bet that’s a handful in a j frame.
USSR can you post what bullets those are in your picture please?
I would not do a nice K-frame Smith like that, even though on paper it can probably handle it.
I agree with this. The 125s are livable. The 158s not so much. For me.It just goes to show how subjective recoil is. I think the 125 grain +p Golden Saber recoils considerably less than the 158 grain standard pressure Buffalo Bore.
It just goes to show how subjective recoil is. I think the 125 grain +p Golden Saber recoils considerably less than the 158 grain standard pressure Buffalo Bore.
Has everyone forgotten why S&W introduced the L-frame (586/686) revolvers or why RUGER replaced the Security Six with the GP-100. The .38 Special FBI load worked fine in these medium size K-frame revolvers, but beat them till they loosened up and would not function.
Yep, cracked forcing cones- usually blamed on super hot 110gr screamer .357s.Jim,
That's just not true. The S&W L frame was developed because the K frame would not hold up to continued .357 Magnum loads, not .38 Special +P loads like the FBI Load.
Don
I've only bought one box of commercial 125gr. 38 special +P, the Remington SJHP in the 100-round box they have at most Walmarts. Across my chrono they did 1020fps on average.. from my 4" GP100. My 125gr. handloads using the book +P max of Titegroup do 970fps from the same gun. I wish I had pressure testing equipment...Don't leave Underwood out of this thread as their 125 grain hollow point 38 Special +P does do 1197 FPS out of my SP 101 2.25".
There are all sorts of problems with this discussion. One person said he wanted this ammo for his wife's revolver. Heavy bullets at high velocity, no matter what the pressure recoil HEAVILY! I would not shoot this out of a small frame .38 on a bet. In fact, not even in a small frame .357. I have shot the standard FBI 158 gran +P load and I agree that the 125 grain +P kicks noticeably less. That is what I have kept in my medium frame .38 Special revolvers
.
Has everyone forgotten why S&W introduced the L-frame (586/686) revolvers or why RUGER replaced the Security Six with the GP-100. The .38 Special FBI load worked fine in these medium size K-frame revolvers, but beat them till they loosened up and would not function. In a J-frame S&W or COLT Detective Special, it was even worse and the alloy frame guns were not even labeled to use +P for many years for that reason.
Any load that equals the old .38-44 loads will have very heavy, near .357 magnum recoil and wear on a gun. I have examined some of the original .38-44 revolvers and they were built like tanks. They could take that recoil, but mid-frame revolvers, only for so long. If you practice with standard pressure ammo and only use the .38-44 loads when outdoors, fine, but you will not get adequate practice. It would be like when the cops shot .38 Special wadcutters for practice and carried .357 magnum ammo on the street. It was a bad idea as it did not give realistic training.
Also, those .38-44 loads may OVERPENETRATE in a defense situation. I know the poster said it penetrated 13 inches, but what was the test medium. Heavy bullet .357 loads usually penetrate much deeper. Good for bears, bad for people. You could get a through and through hit on a bad guy and end up in jail for felony reckless endangerment. I would almost guarantee a civil suit you will lose.
I just switched to the new FEDERAL HST +P .38 Special in my J-frame and if it shoots well (I worry about keyholing) in my 4 inch .38's, it will become my standard load in the cylinder, but I will use a different load for my speedloaders. The wadcutter shape of this bullet makes quick reloads unlikely. It penetrates enough and really expands which is what makes a good self defense load.
Save the .38-44's for a heavy .357 magnum revolver and the outdoors.
Jim