bdickens
Member
It's a fantastic way to convert money into noise....
I do not agree with you. You forgot that you have to be alive to shoot. Full auto is much better at keeping the enemy from placing accurate fire and making him run than semi auto. Aircraft use?About five decades ago I was a Marine infantrymen. The issue weapon (rifle) for infantrymen at that time was the M16E2 (if memory serves). That was the basic M16 rifle, chambered 5.56 NATO, fully or semi-automatic (at user's option) with forward assist.
At that time, aimed fire was considered the basis of using a rifle. Fully automatic fire was offered as a sop to those who could not shoot and feared their inability. The later three shot burst option was used to turn a "one long shot" weapon into a ten shot weapon while giving some comfort to the terminally incompetent.
The whole concept of infantry level gun fighting is rather complex and intricate. A few sentences will not be sufficient. The idea of firing wildly while hiding is not really effective. Testing shows that regular troops cannot hit five silhouette targets at twenty five yards using a fully automatic rifle (Stoner 63 in belt fed, hand-held mode). However, armed with semi-automatic arms (same rifles), most could hit all five targets with five shots at one hundred yards.
I am staunchly against fully automatic fire for infantrymen. It does have some function for perimeter defense, and seems effective in aircraft use.
I would point out the only reason the M16 was at all useful in Vietnam was it's employment as a submachine gun rather than a rifle.
No doubt some will disagree.
Your basic combt load used to be 180 rounds. (88-95). Using the 3 round burst ate a lot, but you would be out altogether using full auto. Full auto allows no control. Even 3round bursts gets you off target quick. Not that you focus much in combat.
Your agreement or not does not invalidate the information.But you are not an actual combat veteran. I do not agree with you. You forgot that you have to be alive to shoot. Full auto is much better at keeping the enemy from placing accurate fire and making him run than semi auto. Aircraft use?
Aircraft are a different thing entire. You only have a mer second or two where your target is where your aim is. So, you want as much lead there as soon as possible for the brief instant you have the sight picture.You are unaware of aircraft with fully automatic fire?
Im not seeing a difference there.Aircraft are a different thing entire. You only have a mer second or two where your target is where your aim is. So, you want as much lead there as soon as possible for the brief instant you have the sight picture.
Well, other infantry seldom moves in excess of 300mph while you are also maneuvering at such rates.Im not seeing a difference there
In Vietnam troops kept their M-16s on full auto as a matter of course,
Bingo! There is a reason why aircraft machine guns fired much faster than their ground counterparts. The M2HB fires at around 450-550 rounds per minute. The AN M-2 at more than double that rate. If that enemy plane is in your sights, he won't stay there for long.Aircraft are a different thing entire. You only have a mer second or two where your target is where your aim is. So, you want as much lead there as soon as possible for the brief instant you have the sight picture.
Just out of curiosity, those of you trained in the military to use/shoot in FA, how were you taught, and how much time and ammo was spent in training? Was it part of your qualifications? Did you work at it often?
Was it training to learn to properly shoot the gun itself? If so, what did, or are they teaching? What kind of courses of fire did you run.
Was it more theory and purpose of use, as a group or individual level, or both? Was it simply en mass suppressive fire, or was there also individual use training?
Im just curious, as my personal observations and experiences when shooting (mostly pistol caliber guns) with both active and former military over the years, was they didnt seem to have much in the way of skills with the guns when they were shooting with us. It usually just seemed more like a hose fest, than an actual deliberate aimed fire with trigger control.
Not that hose fests arent fun too, they can be, but some of them were down right scary when it came to firearm handling skills.
SOCOM M4 carbines have nonrestricted FA, in the "big army", the M4 is 3 rd burst. The FA triggers are better than the burst triggers in semi auto.
That is something that shows that you understand things and know how to work the gun in FA. While its not something you would normally do, it does show that you have control of the gun and "can" do it. I would say 4" with just a pistol caliber gun is a pretty high bar, doing it with something like an M16, M4 etc, would be impressive.The drill was a 30 round cyclic burst at 10 meters with all rounds going into the 4" circle. The point of the drill wasn't the employment of FA fire on a battlefield- it was to ingrain the importance of tight body position and follow through whether you were firing 1 shot or 30. If all the rounds went onto the target, your position is good and don't change it.