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VFW in Marcellus wants ATF to give back machine gun

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Drizzt, Apr 8, 2005.

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  1. Drizzt

    Drizzt Member

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    VFW in Marcellus wants ATF to give back machine gun
    4/7/2005, 2:27 p.m. ET
    The Associated Press

    MARCELLUS, Mich. (AP) — Area residents want federal authorities to return a 1918 German .50 caliber machine gun to the local VFW Post's war museum after it was taken during a search earlier this year.

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms took the Maxim machine gun as part of a broader investigation into the person who donated the weapon to the post, the Three Rivers Commercial-News reported.

    Museum curator and Vietnam veteran Wilber Breseman was outraged by the Feb. 23 search.

    "How many man-hours and at what monetary value did this operation cost?" Breseman asked. "Wouldn't it have been much better for one officer to approach us and tell us to make this weapon completely inoperable?

    "I could have taken it to my shop and welded the barrel and breech shut, which would have taken about 15 minutes."

    Four ATF agents and one state trooper arrived at the post with a search warrant for concealed weapons. Mark Hady, the ATF's resident agent in charge, said the donor was under investigation for illegally dealing in firearms.

    Hady said the ATF would like to give the gun back, but legal issues surrounding the weapon must be resolved. The weapon would have to be made inoperable, and it was uncertain whether that had been done.

    "When we got the orders to go to the VFW, we said, 'Oh God, that's the last thing we want to do,'" Hady said. "I'm not sure how many people were actually there, but we weren't trying to intimidate anyone."

    Several hundred Marcellus residents planned to send a petition to Washington to try and get the gun back.

    http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/mich...24/111289812531590.xml&storylist=newsmichigan
     
  2. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    God forbid a bunch of US military vets should be in control of a full-auto. :rolleyes:
     
  3. ZeroX

    ZeroX Member

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    They've probably melted it down by now. :(
     
  4. The Grand Inquisitor

    The Grand Inquisitor Member

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    We'd better keep an eye on those shifty vets...you know they're always up to no good.

    This is just another example of how this administration and the last six or seven administrations (at least Rooseveldt established the GI Bill and Hoover helped vets buy homes) has called upon American soldiers to risk their lives to protect them and their monetary interests, but when the vets need something, they get ????? on.

    Go to your local VA hospital, you will find second and third rate care for people who gave *everything* they had just to get nothing in return. I am sure for all of the stroking our government gives for our soldiers now about being hero's and how brave they are, but when the time comes and those men and women need the governments help, they'll get nothing in return.
     
  5. Ohen Cepel

    Ohen Cepel Member

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    Pretty sad and stupid!

    This has happened a lot lately though.

    Also, just to be picky. Did the Germans have a .50cal Maxim in WWI (or ever)?
    Think it might be the newspaper guy trying to get the "scare factor" out of the .50 cal BS that's going on.
     
  6. Redneck Revolver

    Redneck Revolver Member

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    the germans had .50 cal machine guns aswell as other large caliber full autos. im pretty sure they did have a maxim version too but i'll have to check.

    its such a shame the way some of the noblest people, who have literally given their entire lives for their natin are treated and looked at these days. :barf:
     
  7. svtruth

    svtruth Member

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    Good Behavior

    If the gun has managed to stay out of trouble since 1918, it probably would have gone on being a model citizen.
     
  8. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    i recall reading in 'A Rifleman Went to War' that the Germans did indeed have maxim machineguns.
     
  9. Ohen Cepel

    Ohen Cepel Member

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    I'm sure the German's had Maxims, just wanted to know if they had .50cal Maxims.
     
  10. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    There are just some folks that need to be taken out behind the woodshed for a good old-fashioned butt-whoopin' . . .
     
  11. 0007

    0007 Member

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    An original Maxim in .50 cal would be worth a ton of $$ I suspect...
     
  12. Spreadfire Arms

    Spreadfire Arms Member

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    let's not forget possession of an unregistered machine gun is a felony......?
     
  13. dasmi

    dasmi Member

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    Makes sense to me.
     
  14. Spreadfire Arms

    Spreadfire Arms Member

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    quote:

    "I could have taken it to my shop and welded the barrel and breech shut, which would have taken about 15 minutes."

    The receiver would needed to be torch cut per ATF regulations too. Also something about destruction of evidence, should this go to court.
     
  15. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    One guy to do the search plus four to manage the doughnuts.
     
  16. Hellion Productions

    Hellion Productions Member

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    .50 cal Maxim=No such thing.

    Closest thing the Germans had to a .50 cal was the 13mm Mauser anti-tank rifle. Bolt-action. Basically a large Mauser 98.

    German Maxims were 7.92x57. Same as the Rifle cartridge.

    Media got it wrong again. :rolleyes:

    Best,
    John Bear Ross
     
  17. DMF

    DMF Member

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    People need to read for comprehension rather than looking for things to support preconceived notions. ATF is investigating someone for illegal firearms dealing. Did anyone consider that they need the gun he had given to the VFW as evidence of his illegal dealings? If that gun was transferred to the VFW in violation of the NFA, or the donor originally obtained it in violation of the NFA, then it is evidence of a crime .

    Common sense people.

    This isn't about punishing the VFW, it's about the gathering evidence to prove or disprove the allegations against the donor.
     
  18. HighVelocity

    HighVelocity Member

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    Good thing the ATF took it. Someone might have mounted it on a power scooter and gone on a rampage. :cuss:
     
  19. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Wonderful. A piece of history must be destroyed because of a series of stupid laws written to keep anti-alcohol agents employed after the end of prohibition. :rolleyes:
     
  20. entropy

    entropy Member

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    As hellion productions said, it's either a .50 or WWI German MG. The US built their .50 cal. MG from the 13mm Mauser anti-tank round, which was fired from a bolt action rifle that indeed looked like a beefed-up Gew98. Some of these were converted to 12ga. after the war, and exported. They occasionally turn up at gun shows. The Germans never fielded a .50 cal, nor did anyone else until the Russians just before WWII, with the DShK 12.7mm and the SG-43 during WWII. Either way, real tough of the ATF, taking down a bunch of vets. :rolleyes:
     
  21. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Can't have people remembering what freedoms the gov't has stolen. People don't fight for what they don't feel they've lost.
     
  22. Blackburn

    Blackburn member

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    ^
     
  23. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    Followup

    MARCELLUS -- On folding chairs sat the veterans, some in plaid shirts and jeans, all with medals on their VFW post caps from terrors and glory years ago.

    Before them stood federal agents in suits and ties.

    On Monday, the two sides argued about a rare 1918 German machine gun the veterans acquired to display in their museum. Unbeknownst to the veterans, it was illegal and evidence in a criminal case.

    The gun was seized in February by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The veterans were told Monday they probably won't get it back.

    ...

    http://www.mlive.com/news/kzgazette/index.ssf?/base/news-13/1116948079122140.xml
     
  24. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    Yes, I think most of us understand the weapon was illegal.

    Still, it could have been used in the case, torched to ATF regs (tho I thought there was an excemption on certain military related artifacts for museums and such), and returned. What will become of this weapon? Melting it down? Ending up in a warehouse for all eternity? Ending up in some agent's closet?

    There's a difference between legal system and justice system. Sorry if I sound like I don't respect an un-Constitutional law, but I honestly think it could have been handled differently.
     
  25. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Yet another impetus for a NFA amnesty!

    Send those cards and letters now (and write the NRA too). :)
     
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