Vhit 3n38 for .44mag Redhawk 7"bbl

[Mad Chemist]

Pistol powders are still scarce in my area and I'm down to my last few grains of H110. I bought a can of 3n38 hoping it would be a little more versatile than it has proven to be so far. I know this stuff shines with heavy 9mm .40S&W loads.
Has anyone tried to work up a .44mag target/practice load with this stuff?

I have found a few references from various European firearms sites (Italian, German, and French) that recommended it as an option for .44mag. However, since these were all read through Google translator, I don't necessarily trust this info as a starting off point. Most of the info I have found recommends starting off around 12.0gr with appox 16gr as max for your typical 240gr swc. The Vhit manual is completely silent on the subject. And as any of you who own this powder know already, they have very little published data for it.

Published data does exist for 3n37 in .44, but it appears to be only really suited to JHP bullets of <200gr. Since 3n38 is a little slower I was hoping it would be a viable candidate for some loads. Keep in mind that I'm not trying to develop full-power freight train loads with this stuff. Instead, I'm looking for something that will feel similar to factory loads and hopefully be able to replicate POA/POI.

My only other option is loading plinkers with Unique. This works OK with hot .44spl but you simply can't replicate a real mag round with Unique. Well, not one that I would want to shoot at least.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mad Chemist]

I am seeing many references to 3n38 being very close to Vectan SP2 in burn rate, volume of gas released, and overall pressure.

I may have to take the SP2 data and reduce the min charge about 10% and start running strings on the chrono. Bullets are lswc so no worries about jacket separation.

 

[JLDickmon]

I found it odd that VV doesn't list data for the 44 Mag., but DID for 500 S&W.

hmm.

I dunno. I'd almost tell you you'd be happier with N110, but if you have the powder already, I'd be tempted to go for it..

I wouldn't use SP2 data, however..

I'd have to say take a look at VV's data for N350 (next faster) and N105 (next slower) and figure something out from there..

 

[Mad Chemist]

It is really frustrating that they publish so little data for this powder.


If I could get N110, H110, or any other suitable powder I would. Right now, on the bench I have: Unique, VV3n38, Ramshot Competition, H110 (almost empty maybe 100gr left), and VV3n37.

.44mag data does exist for 3n37 but I'm trying to save my 3n37 for my hot rod 124gr 9mm loads.

 

[Mad Chemist]

"I'd have to say take a look at VV's data for N350 (next faster) and N105 (next slower) and figure something out from there.."

Following this advice would mesh with the translated Euro data I found which indicated 12.0gr VV3n38 as a min load and 16 as a max.

This also correlates with the SP2 data which lists 13.1-15.4grs as the range.

 

[Mad Chemist]

DISCLAIMER:
THE FOLLOWING LOAD DATA IS FOR AN UPCOMING TEST AND IS UNPROVEN AT THIS TIME. THIS DATA IS NOT PUBLISHED IN ANY RELOADING MANUAL OR INDEX CURRENTLY AVAILABLE IN THE US. ATTEMPTING TO REPLICATE THESE LOADS MAY RESULT IN DAMAGE TO YOUR FIREARM AND DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY TO YOURSELF.

THIS INFO IS POSTED FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES ONLY.


So I loaded up a test run.

Primers: Win LP
Bullets: HSM 240gr lswc bb
Brass: GFL once fired same lot from original box.
Powder:VV3N38
1st string 10rds @ 13.4gr
2nd string 5rds @ 13.9gr
3rd string 5rd @ 14.2gr

Brass length all spec within 3/1000th of each other. A heavy roll crimp was applied the same as I do with all mag loads.

I also loaded up 15rds with the same batch of components but charged with 11.0gr of Unique. This will be my control. This Unique load is already proven as a decent secondary load when slower powders are unavailable.

If the VV3N38 load shows signs of being able to exceed Unique in performnce, then I'll continue down this path.

I'll need to take a field trip to test these out since my local indoor range doesn't allow magnum ammo. I'll post results once I have the data.

If anyone has Quickload, I would greatly appreciate it if you could run a sanity check on my test loads. I'm confident that these charges will not prove dangerous but it never hurts to be a little extra cautious.

 

[Mad Chemist]

DISCLAIMER:
THIS DATA IS NOT PUBLISHED IN ANY RELOADING MANUAL OR INDEX CURRENTLY AVAILABLE IN THE US. ATTEMPTING TO REPLICATE THESE LOADS MAY RESULT IN DAMAGE TO YOUR FIREARM AND DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY TO YOURSELF. IF YOU CHOOSE TO USE ANY OF THIS DATA YOU ARE DOING SO AT YOUR OWN RISK.

THIS INFO IS POSTED FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES ONLY.


So I was finally able to shoot these. Unfortunately I was not able to chrono them so data is only qualitative.

None of the loads produced were excessively dirty and left little or no debris behind.

The range was outdoors, conditions were raining, temps in the low-mid 40s (F).

Gun was a Ruger RH 6"bbl. Scope removed and sighting over the rail.

Range distance was 7yrd.

I ran a second batch of rounds with 11gr of Unique as a control. This is a proven practice load for .44mag.
I also ran a 3rd comparison sample with 24.0 gr of H110. This is a full house .44mag load that has already been proven in this particular gun. It exceeds max in some manuals. Do not replicate without working up to it.

All powder charges were using the same 240gr LSWC bullet.

The first string of VV3N38 rds @ 13.4gr were very mild. They felt very similar to the Unique loads with respect to felt recoil. Flash was pretty much non existent. No deformation of the primers at all. Primer cup edges were still rounded. Spent cases removed easily and were cleaner than the comparison loads.

The second string at 13.9gr performed very similar to the first one. There was a barely perceptible increase in felt recoil but it was still very mild. This batch burnt slightly more cleanly with less visible stains on the brass. The load produced very little visible smoke despite the fact that we were shooting lead. The spent casings were similar to the first string.

The last string at 14.2gr did not disappoint. There was little noticeable increase in felt recoil and the spent cases were cleaner than the previous tests and the comparison samples. Flash was minimal. The primer cups showed were no longer rounded but were not flattened either.





We did not perform a proper accuracy assessment on these loads. The purpose of the test was simply to prove whether or not VV3n38 was a viable powder for this caliber. VV3n38 proved functional and I am confident that it is viable at least as a plinking recipe. It proved to be relatively clean burning as it was cleaner than both comparison groups. No leading or debris was found after inspection of the barrel. Further testing is needed to determine if it is an optimal powder for .44mag for either accuracy, velocity or both.

Next steps:
I will need a sunny day and a chrono to proceed further. I'm satisfied that the 14.2gr load is safe but I am not comfortable pushing it without the velocity data. When possible I plan to set up at the 50yd range with the scope mounted and the chrono in place. I intend to run another test again using the Unique and H110 loads as controls. Using a rest and the scoped platform will make accuracy assessment fairly easy.