Vietnam M16 thread

[Nicky Santoro]

OP,
I was late to the game (early '69-early'70) and had what I now know to be an A1. Just called it an M16 then. I had a DI in '68 who had been in the 101st. Amazingly, Army SOP was to still refer to the rifle as self-cleaning. Then he told us the truth. It doesn't self-clean and if you don't keep it clean it will jam and you will die. An exact quote that I recall... "Chuck will walk right up to you and your f***ed weapon and shoot you in the face". The instructor at the range told us the same. I took both at their word as I planned to complete my glorious two years of service alive. I always performed a fast cleaning whenever I had a chance and never had a malfunction of any kind.
FWIW
YMMV

 

[Doug Kennedy]

wasn't the stick powder imr8208?

sorry I commented on this thread.................there sure is alot of tall tails and bs

 

[Sky]

Byron that was good info, Thanks!

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_velocity.html

 

[Wispa]

My father was a Sgt. during his time there in 1967-68 C Company, 65th Combat Engineers, 25th Infantry. He had trouble with his and saw other guys run into trouble due to malfunctions. I don't know the exact type of issues or the causes of them though. I'm sure it's like others have said, a mixture of the environment, lack of cleaning supplies, ammo specs, etc.

When talking about it he says using the M60 was his preference since he knew it would work, but that it was bitter sweet since doing so ended up drawing more attention.

 

[Tirod]

The M14 refit for SWAsia amounts to less than 5,000 rifles. Compared to the 100,000 M16's and M4's, it becomes obvious they are just another asset, like the M2, Mk17, M60, M249, etc. The 7.62 isn't replacing the 5.56, just being added to the assortment.

Please note it was cheap and easy for the Army to do that, SOCOM would rather buy more SCAR -H, and the Brit's bought an AR-10 they designated the L129A1. None of those are replacing the 5.56, just supplementing it.

As for the Civil War soldier, he didn't carry 130 pounds of gear. They simply didn't have that much. No radios, batteries, NVG's, helmets, armored vests, really, it's silly to bring it up. There is no comparison. All they had was a musket, and if they could have gotten a forged aluminum autoloader that weighed less than 7 pounds loaded, they would have changed in a heartbeat. Every group of humans has always bought into technology. I don't see too many of us using analog bag phones and deliberately choosing to keep their black and white analog TV's.

We took years to change from the M16A1 to A2, longer to adopt the M4, and still use the M16 in the A4 form. Well over 40 years in all that, but the initial fielding was done in a rush and obviously not in a thorough manner. There are lessons to be learned there, most of which are why we won't adopt a different caliber or rifle in any great hurry.

 

[Art Eatman]

"There are lessons to be learned there, most of which are why we won't adopt a different caliber or rifle in any great hurry."

Thanks, Tirod. That's a pretty good summary and will serve to let the old horse have a chance to breathe...