Virginia couple fight companies using politically correct term 'holiday'

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America is a Christian nation, I celebrate Christ mas. If you don't like it, go back to from where you came.

America is a nation without a religion. I will gladly take up arms to keep it that way. People of my religion has been persecuted for as long as history has been recorded by any number of governments claiming their religion as the correct one.

As a seventh generation jewish american, i say to you: have a happy chanukkah and move back to wherever it is you came from. :rolleyes:

If you can't grasp the idea, this country isn't for you.
 
Ouch!

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Perhaps you need a refresher course on the first document penned on American shores; The Mayflower Compact.

The Mayflower Compact predates the United States and its Constitution by 150 years and is irrelevant to the discussion. The Pilgrims were quite intolerant in matters of religion, which is kind of ironic, considering their reasons for leaving England. That's one of the reasons why the Founding Fathers deemed it necessary to enshrine religious freedom in the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights.
 
The Pilgrims were quite intolerant in matters of religion, which is kind of ironic, considering their reasons for leaving England.
The Pilgrims didn’t come to American for religious freedom. If you plan to refute an assertion it would behoove you to get your facts in order first.


The Mayflower Compact predates the United States and its Constitution by 150 years and is irrelevant to the discussion.
That strikes me as an inane position to hold, unless of course the Mayflower Compact severely restricts your pet theory on America. Or perhaps you do not view the Pilgrims as part of the foundation of America? That would seem to be a tenuous belief, especially every November...
 
Were the founding fathers really very tolerant of different religions?

I get the impression from reading them that they thought any religion was ok, as long as it was Christian. I am not sure they ever envisioned that we would eventually become a nation of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bhuddists, atheists, druids, etc.

A lot of the religious "differences" that they proposed tolerance for were things that would go unnoticeable today. Many of these things were what we would consider minor procedural differences today, such as how ministers should dress during ceremony.

Even the clash between Protestants and Catholics, which still goes on today in Ireland, is minor compared to the differences we now have in the USA.

The religious differences we see today are gargantuan compared to the religious differences of 1770.
 
The Pilgrims didn’t come to American for religious freedom. If you plan to refute an assertion it would behoove you to get your facts in order first.

My, my...who whizzed in your Wheaties this morning? Try and play nice, and don't let the fact that I don't agree with you in matters of theology influence your attitude.

The Puritans shipped out to the New World because of theological disagreements with the religion of the establishment. They did not support the Church of England, which Henry VIII created not too long before. In essence, they left the country because they didn't want to adhere to a "state religion" which they found highly objectionable.

That strikes me as an inane position to hold, unless of course the Mayflower Compact severely restricts your pet theory on America. Or perhaps you do not view the Pilgrims as part of the foundation of America? That would seem to be a tenuous belief, especially every November...

The Pilgrims were part of the history of this country, but they didn't write the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, which are the foundation of the United States of America. I don't have "pet theories" on America, other than the belief that the Constitution and the BoR say what they say. The Bill of Rights recognizes your right to celebrate Christmas in your own way. It also recognizes my next-door neighbor's right to celebrate Winter Solstice instead, and my Jewish friends' right to celebrate something they call Hanukkah. I have no interest in forbidding anyone from celebrating the religious holiday of their choice, and I'd never think about telling them to "go back to where you came from" if they don't celebrate mine.
 
My kindergardener came home yesterday from school, with an informational page on Chanukah

Of course in liberal Monkey county MD, they will observe Kwanza

But theres not a mention of the C-word
They are not allowed to sing any Christmas carols.
 
Merry CHRISTMAS all of you!!!!

And if you wanna argue with that.... heres a pic for you. ;)
Really! All of you have a merry Christmas and don't let any of the PC police bring you down!

[Ridiculous Santa attachment deleted]
 
Lone Gunman,
[blockquote]Were the founding fathers really very tolerant of different religions? I get the impression from reading them that they thought any religion was ok, as long as it was Christian."[/blockquote]
There were a variety of founders, as well as various others of note, who were anti-Christian:
http://www.thehighroad.org/library/quotes/religion.html

Let's not forget that when Franklin was in Britain, he was in the Hell-Fire club, which among other things conducted satanic rituals, encouraged promiscuity, encouraged drinking, and distributed erotica. IIRC he later converted to christianity, but I think that was post-founding.

(Anyone with interesting religious quotes, don't hesitate to send them this way. I'd prefer not to have generic pro-Christian quotes; the quotelist isn't meant to prove that Christianity is an incorrect belief, as doing so would be impossible. That said, any interesting quotes, pro- or anti- christian, will be considered.)
 
Celebrate them all. Or don't celebrate any of them but; don't be offended by what other celebrate.

Jehova's Witnesses are Christians...they don't celbrate Christmas.

I'm agnostic, but hedge my bets.:D

Yule Log is a tradition my Great Great Grandfather started in my family (may go back farther than that). We obtain the largest log that will fit in the fireplace. Put it on 2 days before Christmas, don't have to go back to work until it is completely burned up. My GrandDad figured out it will last longer if you cut a green log and soak it inthe water trough for a week before you try to light it. :neener: I keep this tradition alive.

Merry Christmas/Feliz Navidad
Happy Hannukah
Happy Kwanza
Happy/Merry whatever to everyone else.
 
what's a yule log?


And to add to the nest of wasps we stirred up:

/old chinese man/ y'all slackers. When I was young we worked all year long until the lunar new year and only then take a few hours off. So we can give cash gifts in red envelops /old man off/
 
I don't believe it...

I just lost an hour's work on a reply...

I'm going to :cuss:ing cry...


To sum up...

The Mayflower Compact is NOT an active article of governance in the United States. It was abandoned as an article of governance within a generation of its adoption.


The Pilgrims were Puritan Sepratists who didn't believe that the Reformation was finished. They left England and went to the Netherlands to escape persecution at the hands of the Church of England.

The Pilgrims left Holland to escape economic conditions and the pervasive secular influence of Dutch society on their members.

Once landing on US shores, the Pilgrims quickly went from persecuted to persecutors. No dissent to official religious doctrin was allowed. New England Puritan colonies were, essentially, theocratic societies.

Roger Williams dissented, and was forced out of the colony. He went on to found Rhode Island, where religious tolerance was allowed, one of the big reasons why Rhode Island become one of the earliest settlement points in the Colonies for Jews -- the first active Jewish congregation was formed in, I believe, 1658.

New England religious intolerance, as well as that found in Maryland in the 1600s and early 1700s, goes a LONG way in explaining why the Founding Fathers and the Framers eschewed adopting an official religion in the United States. I THINNK 4 of the original colonies -- Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and I believe Georgia, were officially places where religious tolerance for all faiths (including Jews) was the stated norm.

That changed fairly early in Maryland, where the original Catholic leaders were deposed and strident anti-Catholic provisions were enacted.

The Founding Fathers and the Framers never intended the United States to be a Christian nation. They recognized that it was a nation that was largely comprised of Christian residents, but they established no state religion, and by 1825 I believe that every state had in its constitution an article similar to the First Amendment dealing religious freedoms.
 
"Were the founding fathers really very tolerant of different religions? I get the impression from reading them that they thought any religion was ok, as long as it was Christian."


As a group, when establishing a government? Yes.

If they weren't tolerant, you would have had an official state religion and numerous anti-tolerance laws suppressing whatever religious factions they didn't like.

Quakers? Banned.

Shakers? Banned.

Calvinists? Whoa, they're banned.

Dunkards? SO banned!

The official state religion is now... Primitive Southern Baptist Snake Handling -- signed President George Tom Sam Adasonton.

As individuals, who knows, really.

Thomas Jefferson was more a deist or secular humanist who too great enjoyment in editing the bible.

Washington was Anglican, I believe. I've sat in his pew in his Church in Alexandria.

John Adams was a New England Reformed Puritan (what we'd today probably call Episcopalian).

Ben Franklin was a horny old SOB, and a serving accolyte in the Churches of Bacchus, Eros, and more than just a few other pagan Gods.
 
Merry Christmas everybody! :)

Perhaps you need a refresher course on the first document penned on American shores; The Mayflower Compact.
I can come up with plenty of documents showing that Virginia, Massachusetts and the 11 other colonies were established to serve the English crown. So what?

In any event, what does a document scribbled by those of those Johnny-come-lately Pilgrims up in Massachusetts have to do with anything down here in Virginia. We had good sized towns before Plymouth Rock was anything but a place for barnacles to hang out.

Oh, and speaking of refresher courses, the Mayflower Compact wasn't the first document penned on American shores. http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/vcdh/jamestown/publicrecords.html
There is no freedom from being offended in this country.
True. Please tell that to the couple setting up grinchlist.com.
 
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Frankly, i don't get upset if people say merry christmas to me, i don't really care what religion you are or what holiday you celebrate. It's not disrespectful to get it wrong.

What does upset me is people believing that this country is a christian one. The second this country establishes a state religion i'd hope many of you would be up in arms with me on general principal, aside from religious background.

Don't think it couldn't happen. Take a look at president Bush's "Jesus Day"

http://www.beth-am.org/index2.cfm?page=362

What a dolt.
 
The same sort of thing is happening over here in the UK, and it annoys me, too.

quote:
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There is no freedom from being offended in this country.
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True. Please tell that to the couple setting up grinchlist.com.

Although that is a good point.


But I still think there is a difference between being offended by someone else expressing their religion, and being offended because people are trying to hide or erase a major part of the culture of the majority of the people.

And I expect this would also offend the minority-religions, as it tends to imply that they are narrow-minded and easily offended.

And anyway, regardless of "rights", its good policy for companies not to offend their customers.



But then, to paraphrase Lincoln:

You can please some of the people all of the time,
And you can please all of the people some of the time,
But you can't please all of the people all of the time.
 
I agree with Mike Irwin. I think stores are just trying to appeal to all the religions with one convenient phrase. Sounds like a lot of hullabaloo about nothing.

Oh, I beat the lock! Ninja vanish!

*back flips into the shadows*

PNV (post ninja vanish): Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanza, Happy Winter Solstice, etc. I myself will be celebrating the holiday season with Christians this year. I don't believe in any God, but I'm down with any occasion that results in the receiving of cool gifts. :D
 
Oh, and the United States isn't a Christian nation. That gives the impression that Christianity is the offical state religion. Which branch of Christianity would that be? Some of them get along about as well as Jews and Arabs in the Gaza Strip.

And that gives the impression that "nation" and "state" are interchangeable terms. The greater point in this discussion is that a segment of the population, that very segment that has bequeathed the most, culturally and philosophically, to this nation and its institutions, is also the segment that is being marginalized by corporate and judicial fiat.

The VA couple is to be thanked by all...
 
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