Crimp
Member
He helps those who help themselves, and I agree with Bogie. If nothing else, a silent open holster day would be better than nothing.
Virginia Tech Anniversary coming up
- Thread starter bogie
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He helps those who help themselves, and I agree with Bogie. If nothing else, a silent open holster day would be better than nothing.
bogie
Member
Or ask, in a dignified fashion, at one of those "lie-in" protests that they seem to be staging "Why were these poor victims unable to defend themselves?"
What's wrong with that?
What's wrong with that?
Crunker1337
Member
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- Apr 12, 2007
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That's fine, I suppose, but I wouldn't go beyond that. Fight your enemy, don't become him.
I don't think that a BIG deal should be made about that day by pro gun people or the anti gun people.
We know that the anti gun people will be salivating to get the attention by the mass media to portray us gun nuts as x, y or z.
Yes, it is SAD that those murders happened. It is sad that NO one was armed and able to STOP the killer from any injuries and any murders.
However... there are many crimes on a daily basis along with accidental injuries and deaths... that were NOT gun related.
There are many crimes that have been STOPPED by ordinary citizens (Open or conceal carry.) not only by off duty or on duty policemen. Homeowners, people in their vehicles, etc.
I will not do anything special on that day except say a silent prayer and wish that IF and WHEN something like this occurs again in a GUN FREE ZONE = LIE that someone would be able to STOP the killer or rapist or robber no matter what kind of crime that the perp wants to do - stop him or her in their TRACKS!
Catherine
We know that the anti gun people will be salivating to get the attention by the mass media to portray us gun nuts as x, y or z.
Yes, it is SAD that those murders happened. It is sad that NO one was armed and able to STOP the killer from any injuries and any murders.
However... there are many crimes on a daily basis along with accidental injuries and deaths... that were NOT gun related.
There are many crimes that have been STOPPED by ordinary citizens (Open or conceal carry.) not only by off duty or on duty policemen. Homeowners, people in their vehicles, etc.
I will not do anything special on that day except say a silent prayer and wish that IF and WHEN something like this occurs again in a GUN FREE ZONE = LIE that someone would be able to STOP the killer or rapist or robber no matter what kind of crime that the perp wants to do - stop him or her in their TRACKS!
Catherine
bogie
Member
Okay. Fine.
Does anyone have an idea of an effective way to do this in the media?
I'm waiting.
Because I think that a counterprotest, painting the "lie-in" protestors as disarmed victims of the school policies, would go a long way in educating the public so that sort of thing would NOT happen again.
Who else has an idea, other than a "let's just hang back, and be polite, and meet our enemy on the civilized field of battle?" Have you forgotten how this country was won? It wasn't on the field of battle - it was from behind the fences, trees and hedgerows.
We've got poor weeping souls who are still agonizing over the proper memorial to 9/11. We've got folks in Louisiana and Alabama who are still waiting for someone to fix the windows that got blown out in that hurricane. We've got people DOING NOTHING.
If this was 1948, instead of 2008, there's already be a bigger, and taller, building in New York. The folks down south woulda cleaned up that mess. But today?
Sit.
Wait.
See what happens.
Then...
Maybe...
React...
If it's okay.
I, personally, do not wish for things to get to the "cold dead hands" stage. That's why I think that -we- need to become more politically active and public relations savvy. You can bet your next mortgage payment that the anti-gun folks have already cooked up ideas. And run through them. With rehearsals for any conceivable scenario.
Why? They're professionals. We're a bunch of bumblers who can hardly get organized enough to agree on rules to have a shooting match with, much less push a media event.
Understand this: The victims from VA Tech are going to get used on April 16.
HOW do you want them used? HOW can we effectively counter the "lie-ins" and such? Because there's going to be more situations like that as long as society at large keeps assuming that a "lockdown" with our heads in the sand is the best way of dealing with the psychos and predators.
So.
Any ideas?
I'm waiting.
QUOTE:
"We've got people DOING NOTHING."
WithOUT giving you my entire life history or me along with OTHER people being VERY active in politics and gun issues... speak for yourself or other people. Okey dokey?
I have seen BIG gun organizations (The NRA.) do NOTHING in HELPING OUT, BEING THERE with a REPRESENTATIVE or even ANSWERING the SAS - Second Amendment Sisters and other pro gun groups and pro gun people against the Million Mom Marchers in D.C. AFTER the Colorado killer kids did their dirty deeds with murder with FULL INTENT. I am too tired now to retype all of that now and if you want to do a search on Rimfire Central... have at it. (Most recent compared to years ago on long gone gun forums.)
Many of us do "tons" of things on a daily basis in politics be it pro gun and pro LIBERTY.
If you want to give a speech or carry a sign... you can do this ON YOUR OWN or with a group of friends. YOU don't need our permission or anyone else's unless you live in an area where you need march permits or they want to put you in a CAGED OFF political protest group area.
I would be respectful considering on how you would come across to the sheeple and mass media.
Carry or wear an empty holster like some college kids and college adults are doing now in NO open or NO conceal carry college grounds.
Another thing... the next time that the government decides to pull another Waco, Ruby Ridge, and/or another deal like that... don't sit around and lament as many gun people did or SOON FORGOT. GET UP and call whoever is in the White House as I did with Billy Boy and Reno and complain about the murders. AFTER you call there, leave your name, telephone number, address... call CONGRESS, write to them via email or snail mail. Keep calling them and FLOOD them with calls along with having your friends call too.
Then along with all of those other suggestions in a worst case scenario... go to the pro gun organization websites, non compromising ones - hopefully, or as many as you like... follow through there along with all other issues that may come up with your Congress Critters and with Bush or whoever.
Do what YOU want to do in any political or pro gun issue. Do it nice and be polite/respectful especially if it involves a lot of deaths. (Kind of like war you know... all sides, injuries and deaths.)
Do what YOU think is best and present yourself as a dignified American.
Respectfully yours,
Catherine
"We've got people DOING NOTHING."
WithOUT giving you my entire life history or me along with OTHER people being VERY active in politics and gun issues... speak for yourself or other people. Okey dokey?
I have seen BIG gun organizations (The NRA.) do NOTHING in HELPING OUT, BEING THERE with a REPRESENTATIVE or even ANSWERING the SAS - Second Amendment Sisters and other pro gun groups and pro gun people against the Million Mom Marchers in D.C. AFTER the Colorado killer kids did their dirty deeds with murder with FULL INTENT. I am too tired now to retype all of that now and if you want to do a search on Rimfire Central... have at it. (Most recent compared to years ago on long gone gun forums.)
Many of us do "tons" of things on a daily basis in politics be it pro gun and pro LIBERTY.
If you want to give a speech or carry a sign... you can do this ON YOUR OWN or with a group of friends. YOU don't need our permission or anyone else's unless you live in an area where you need march permits or they want to put you in a CAGED OFF political protest group area.
I would be respectful considering on how you would come across to the sheeple and mass media.
Carry or wear an empty holster like some college kids and college adults are doing now in NO open or NO conceal carry college grounds.
Another thing... the next time that the government decides to pull another Waco, Ruby Ridge, and/or another deal like that... don't sit around and lament as many gun people did or SOON FORGOT. GET UP and call whoever is in the White House as I did with Billy Boy and Reno and complain about the murders. AFTER you call there, leave your name, telephone number, address... call CONGRESS, write to them via email or snail mail. Keep calling them and FLOOD them with calls along with having your friends call too.
Then along with all of those other suggestions in a worst case scenario... go to the pro gun organization websites, non compromising ones - hopefully, or as many as you like... follow through there along with all other issues that may come up with your Congress Critters and with Bush or whoever.
Do what YOU want to do in any political or pro gun issue. Do it nice and be polite/respectful especially if it involves a lot of deaths. (Kind of like war you know... all sides, injuries and deaths.)
Do what YOU think is best and present yourself as a dignified American.
Respectfully yours,
Catherine
PS:
No need to wait. People do things all of the time in pro gun and pro liberty issues.
Do what YOU think is right and proper considering it all. You do not need permission. You are a free American... for now.
Sincerely,
Catherine
No need to wait. People do things all of the time in pro gun and pro liberty issues.
Do what YOU think is right and proper considering it all. You do not need permission. You are a free American... for now.
Sincerely,
Catherine
mike101
Member
"Understand this: The victims from VA Tech are going to get used on April 16."
You bet your boots they are. I'm sure if you check out the Brady Bunch Blog, as the 16th approaches, not only will you see a shamelessly exploitative post from Helmke, it will be coupled with an equally shameless plea for donations, just like every other widely publicized shooting that takes place. This will be followed by a brawl in their 'comments' section on Huffpo. Comments are still closed on the Brady site itself.
I'm also sure that one of the other anti-freedom Huffpo bloggers (Josh Sugarmann or Rosie?) will have a nice, exploitative rant for us.
Unrelated side note: The last time Sugarmann posted over there was a couple of weeks ago. Everything was fine for about 40 posts. Then, the pro-gunners started asking questions about his FFL. Comments were closed after only 47 posts. They are rather into information control over there.
You bet your boots they are. I'm sure if you check out the Brady Bunch Blog, as the 16th approaches, not only will you see a shamelessly exploitative post from Helmke, it will be coupled with an equally shameless plea for donations, just like every other widely publicized shooting that takes place. This will be followed by a brawl in their 'comments' section on Huffpo. Comments are still closed on the Brady site itself.
I'm also sure that one of the other anti-freedom Huffpo bloggers (Josh Sugarmann or Rosie?) will have a nice, exploitative rant for us.
Unrelated side note: The last time Sugarmann posted over there was a couple of weeks ago. Everything was fine for about 40 posts. Then, the pro-gunners started asking questions about his FFL. Comments were closed after only 47 posts. They are rather into information control over there.
Tribal
Member
And if you're one of the people using them then you're a scumbag, regardless of the side you're on.
Look: mention Virginia Tech all you want in daily conversation. Taking actions calculated to garner media attention on April 16th, though, is exploitative, classless, and a sign that reasonable people shouldn't take you seriously.
m38shooter
Member
Not sure if this is related to gun control issues or not, but something was just brought to my attention by a morning news flash. Is it possible that VT has realized the actionability of denying people the right to defend themselves? Anybody know details on this?
http://wbztv.com/national/virginia.tech.settlement.2.684001.html
http://wbztv.com/national/virginia.tech.settlement.2.684001.html
JohnBT
Member
"And if you're one of the people using them then you're a scumbag, regardless of the side you're on."
You sound as if you think you own them, the school, the story, etc.
You don't.
John
VPI Class of '72
You sound as if you think you own them, the school, the story, etc.
You don't.
John
VPI Class of '72
Blackbeard
Member
The message should be simple: Self-defense is a civil right, and these people are dead because the school denied them their civil right of self-defense. The choice of words is very important. If you say "liberty", people immediately think "gun-toting patriot crackpot". If you say "civil rights", they think of Martin Luther King, Jr. Hammer home the notion that self-defense is a civil right.
You don't need a whole protest to do it. Just be in the crowd watching and try to get interviewed by the reporter covering it.
You don't need a whole protest to do it. Just be in the crowd watching and try to get interviewed by the reporter covering it.
bogie
Member
And if you're one of the people sitting back, watching them get used by the very people who were essentially instrumental in ensuring that the area they died in was one in which self-defense was prohibited... Sorry, but I don't think that the meek are going to come out on top.
I'm talking about counter-protest stuff... How to turn the Brady folks' stuff back on them.
If we are absent from the arena, a great many fence-sitting television viewers will assume that it is for a reason. And the Brady folks will have the forum to TELL THEM the reason.
How can -we- perform duties equivalent to the duties the Patriot Riders perform at military funerals?
The Brady folks are going to reach MILLIONS of television viewers with their message. Their unopposed message. Their message that the viewers will accept as truth.
I'm talking about counter-protest stuff... How to turn the Brady folks' stuff back on them.
If we are absent from the arena, a great many fence-sitting television viewers will assume that it is for a reason. And the Brady folks will have the forum to TELL THEM the reason.
How can -we- perform duties equivalent to the duties the Patriot Riders perform at military funerals?
The Brady folks are going to reach MILLIONS of television viewers with their message. Their unopposed message. Their message that the viewers will accept as truth.
Intune
Member
And anyone who chooses to demonstrate more overtly is a "scumbag"???
Because this is THR I'm only going to say that I look forward to seeing you press towards the media circus with your empty holster, colors, ring and a few pro-gun soundbites of wisdom to offset the drivel being hammered to the public by the Brady Bunch. You ARE going to do that, right?
I'm reading a lot of posts here from well intentioned people to not use the VA Tech shootings for any political gain. Well I've got a wake up call for you folks. The anti's have been using it since day one. VA Tech and Governor Kaine have also used that tragedy for their own agenda's. Having alligence and loyalty to ones school, past or present, is admireable. But don't turn a blind eye here.
Those people were slaughtered because the university denied them the right to defend themselves. Now maybe it wouldn't have made any difference if Concealed Carry was allowed, we will never know that one way or the other. But those murdered were never given that chance and that ticks me off.
Every anti gun bill in Virginia has had the family members of those shot at Tech present. The infamous gun show loop hole bill, that had absolutely nothing to do with the Tech shooting, had the family members standing up behind the good governor trying end gun shows.
Now folks that's in poor taste. I agree with everyone on that. However, in the times we live in how irresponsible is it of us to remain silent on this issue.
Everyone deserves the right to defend themselves. That is a God given right that no one, the Commonwealth, Virginia Tech, or anyone else has the right to take away from us.
Those people were slaughtered because the university denied them the right to defend themselves. Now maybe it wouldn't have made any difference if Concealed Carry was allowed, we will never know that one way or the other. But those murdered were never given that chance and that ticks me off.
Every anti gun bill in Virginia has had the family members of those shot at Tech present. The infamous gun show loop hole bill, that had absolutely nothing to do with the Tech shooting, had the family members standing up behind the good governor trying end gun shows.
Now folks that's in poor taste. I agree with everyone on that. However, in the times we live in how irresponsible is it of us to remain silent on this issue.
Everyone deserves the right to defend themselves. That is a God given right that no one, the Commonwealth, Virginia Tech, or anyone else has the right to take away from us.
Tribal
Member
I most certainly am not going to do that; I also haven't decided whether to actually do the holster thing or not. There's a difference between supporting your alma mater (or being a friend to Virginia Tech) and using it as a chip in your own political game.
People on TV don't know me from Adam. My classmates and neighbors do. My opinion carries some weight with them because they know me; to the media I'm just a potential contribution to a news story and to viewers I'm just some random guy in a sweatshirt.
As for you, you're nothing to the media (unless you have a direct tie to Virginia Tech) unless it fits their agenda. In their view, you're just some gun nut who wants to turn our children's campuses into the Wild West. Your friends and coworkers are different: you have some pull with them. Instead of wasting your breath and risking an anti getting into a shouting match with you (on television), take a friend shooting.
The media will paint you with the same brush they use for the Klan and the guy who wears tinfoil on his head. You won't get a fair hearing from them.
bogie
Member
The most effective means of mass public opinion manipulation are not necessarily the most polite.
You know that VA Tech's prez is going to give some sort of speech. The cameras will be rolling.
Someone oughta red-paintball him...
Yeah, a serious no-no...
But I'd still like to see it.
You know that VA Tech's prez is going to give some sort of speech. The cameras will be rolling.
Someone oughta red-paintball him...
Yeah, a serious no-no...
But I'd still like to see it.
bogie
Member
And it's the folks who are going to school there who need to organize. Or to have someone HELP them organize.
But they won't.
But they won't.
Tribal
Member
Wow. Way, way, way beyond the pale.
Please don't organize any protests. I really don't trust you to do the right thing on this one.
JohnBT
Member
"No. He sounds like has was raised to have morals and values."
What, and I don't? Is that the best you can do for an insult? Would you say that to my face?
Jerk.
John
What, and I don't? Is that the best you can do for an insult? Would you say that to my face?
Jerk.
John
Tribal
Member
Ibtl!
bogie
Member
Hey, it works for all sorts of our opponents... DO NOT discount their tactics. They are highly effective. We're still fighting the RKBA war like it is 1967...
Sad. Really sad. Because the same people who are screaming "be polite" today are going to be wondering "why did they vote away my rights?" in a few years.
Sad. Really sad. Because the same people who are screaming "be polite" today are going to be wondering "why did they vote away my rights?" in a few years.
bogie
Member
Oh, and I'm HIGHLY irritated...
I ask y'all to come up with some ideas to counter the drivel we're going to be hearing for at least 3-4 days from the Brady folks, and all I hear is "You shouldn't do anything like that" and "nice people just stay quiet and set good examples."
Fine. Your "good examples" aren't going to get any air time. And the Brady folks are going to have an uninterrupted forum. Yeah, you'll know they're full of it. And MAYBE, a person or two who knows you will personally get the message from you. Maybe. In the mean time, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, CNN, etc., are going to be showing millions of people NOTHING BUT BRADY PROPAGANDA. And they're not going to say anything about how it was tasteless.
The only chance to negate what they're about to do is a counterprotest that gets more airtime and that is better received...
But hey, that requires thought. That requires effort. That requires getting your heads out of wherever you've firmly implanted them...
Nice class ring. I hope you like it better than you do your gun rights.
I ask y'all to come up with some ideas to counter the drivel we're going to be hearing for at least 3-4 days from the Brady folks, and all I hear is "You shouldn't do anything like that" and "nice people just stay quiet and set good examples."
Fine. Your "good examples" aren't going to get any air time. And the Brady folks are going to have an uninterrupted forum. Yeah, you'll know they're full of it. And MAYBE, a person or two who knows you will personally get the message from you. Maybe. In the mean time, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, CNN, etc., are going to be showing millions of people NOTHING BUT BRADY PROPAGANDA. And they're not going to say anything about how it was tasteless.
The only chance to negate what they're about to do is a counterprotest that gets more airtime and that is better received...
But hey, that requires thought. That requires effort. That requires getting your heads out of wherever you've firmly implanted them...
Nice class ring. I hope you like it better than you do your gun rights.
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