Vote Bush instead of third party
- Thread starter Silver Bullet
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TooTaxed
Member
I feel much the same as "rick reno" above...I worked very actively in Fresno California in 2000, and like to think my efforts were instrumental in carrying the city and county Republican for the first time...but the simple fact is that if Kerry gets into office, especially with a number of like-minded congressmen...our guns are gone. KERRY MUST NOT BE ELECTED, meaning Bush is the only alternative candidate who can win. Voting for a splinter party candidate to make a point simply results in you sacrificing your gun rights.
Still, I've not contributed much this time to the Republican Party. I'm hedging by contributing heavily to the NRA's Political Victory Fund, the only NRA group that is not hamstrung by McCain's Campaign Finance "Reform" law...The PVF can use TV and radio up to the election...NRA-ILA cannot. I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade my NRA membership from Benefactor to Patron. I'm trusting the PVF to use my funds in the proper political way as conditions develop...most likely to support Republicans in key contests.
To support my point, check out:
www.bradycampaign.org/facts/scorecard/
This shows how every senator and representative has voted on 21 anti-gun bills. Kerry voted the Brady position on all 21, earning him their 100 % rating. (LOVE to use the Brady material to help us determine how to vote...and call certain congressmen on their statements!)
Still, I've not contributed much this time to the Republican Party. I'm hedging by contributing heavily to the NRA's Political Victory Fund, the only NRA group that is not hamstrung by McCain's Campaign Finance "Reform" law...The PVF can use TV and radio up to the election...NRA-ILA cannot. I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade my NRA membership from Benefactor to Patron. I'm trusting the PVF to use my funds in the proper political way as conditions develop...most likely to support Republicans in key contests.
To support my point, check out:
www.bradycampaign.org/facts/scorecard/
This shows how every senator and representative has voted on 21 anti-gun bills. Kerry voted the Brady position on all 21, earning him their 100 % rating. (LOVE to use the Brady material to help us determine how to vote...and call certain congressmen on their statements!)
Lone_Gunman
Member
GeneC,
I am curious, what income tax bracket are you in, approximately?
I am around 36-38% federal, and I really think that is enough of my money.
I agree that I should read more history, but please tell me what civilization fell because they did not take care of their old people?
I am curious, what income tax bracket are you in, approximately?
I am around 36-38% federal, and I really think that is enough of my money.
I agree that I should read more history, but please tell me what civilization fell because they did not take care of their old people?
Treylis
Member
Uh, that's not even remotely close to true.
We'll see what happens after the Democrats are just slightly left of Lenin and the Republicans aren't far behind. If you keep sanctioning evil, you're going to keep getting it. That's reality.
(Or just wait and see if Bush gets another AWB before him after he gets re-elected. We know the man's spineless enough to approve of it, so...)
You do realize that the percentage of people who believe that the 2A allows them gun ownership with no restrictions, carry, open or concealed, without a permit, and also allows them to own machineguns and the like is "irrelevant" too?
lgm, I don't see how tax collection has anything to do with this society assisting our elderly(notice I'm not saying completely support them , that's y'alls' projection). You seem to be grouping alot of porblems together. I couldn't begin to say how much it costs to run this Govt, but I do agree that a complete shakedown and audit is in order. I believe there should be an Ammendment to balance the budget annually and still have a strong military and LEO and infrastructure, etc. I believe the Govt should get permission to spend any of our monies that are not DIRECTLY related to running this Govt. To me it ain't so much how much you make, but how much you spend and on what, but that still has nothing to do with the moral responsibilty to assist our elderly. Imo, this shouldn't be negotiable. If it weren't for them , we wouldn't be here and for them to have survived this long, they earned it.
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040725/NEWS/407250434/1039
BUSH AHEAD IN ELECTORAL COLLEGE
Four years ago, Bush won 30 states and their 271 electoral votes -- one more than needed. Gore, who won the popular vote, claimed 20 states plus the District of Columbia for 267 electoral votes.
Since then, reapportionment added electoral votes to states with population gains and took them from states losing people. The result: Bush's states are now worth 278 electoral votes and Gore's are worth just 260.
BUSH AHEAD IN ELECTORAL COLLEGE
Four years ago, Bush won 30 states and their 271 electoral votes -- one more than needed. Gore, who won the popular vote, claimed 20 states plus the District of Columbia for 267 electoral votes.
Since then, reapportionment added electoral votes to states with population gains and took them from states losing people. The result: Bush's states are now worth 278 electoral votes and Gore's are worth just 260.
fix
Member
How do you think such programs are funded? Do you thing there's a friggin money tree outside the capitol?
Fix , of course taxes fund Govt programs, but that wasn't the context of that statement. The context was the concept of collecting taxes has nothing to do with the concept of the moral responsibilty of helping the elderly. Btw, $100mil from the 'money tree' is going to the DNC, millions from the 'money tree' goes into studying the sex life of some meaningless insect,etc. I saw where Boston has went over budget by $35billion on a road project. I'm sure the Govt is helping them out, like they helped out the airlines and they help out farmers every year. Govt spending has many problems, but assisting the elderly isn't one of them.
Silver Bullet
Member
I’ve been thinking about the matter of Bush vs Kerry vs Third Parties, and I’ve come to some conclusions.
With regards to RKBA, when I vote in the presidential election I will vote for the candidate that I think will have the most positive effect on RKBA. My personal political leanings are libertarian (“small Lâ€), or maybe Constitutionalist, but if I vote Lib and Kerry wins as a result, I have to live with four years of a president who is much more likely to sign into law more restrictive gun control measures, and who will be in a position to nominate Supreme Court Justices who will be voting on our rights for decades to come. I have to vote Bush simply because a vote for Kerry or a Third Party could mean the election of Kerry, and I (and RKBA) will be worse off.
This is true even if Bush signs in a renewed AWB, because Kerry would sign in AWB and more, and will be nominating justices.
(By the way, it seems to me that if certain legislators succeed in pushing forward a bill with increased gun restrictions to succeed the AWB, Bush is no longer bound by his promise to sign it, because it is no longer the same law.)
Now, we’ll all be outraged if Bush signs the AWB, but the presidential election is the wrong time to make a point. The right time is at the presidential primary elections; don’t let potential AWB-signers even make it to the White House. The right time is also at the upcoming election, at the grassroots level: make sure your district and state legislators are pro-RKBA. The legislators are the ones who pass the laws that the president signs. Again, keep the bills from even making it to the White House.
If you want to vote Lib because you honestly don’t see any difference in Kerry and Bush, then I can’t argue with that. But for the rest of us who do see a difference, let’s not cut off our nose to spite our face.
With regards to RKBA, when I vote in the presidential election I will vote for the candidate that I think will have the most positive effect on RKBA. My personal political leanings are libertarian (“small Lâ€), or maybe Constitutionalist, but if I vote Lib and Kerry wins as a result, I have to live with four years of a president who is much more likely to sign into law more restrictive gun control measures, and who will be in a position to nominate Supreme Court Justices who will be voting on our rights for decades to come. I have to vote Bush simply because a vote for Kerry or a Third Party could mean the election of Kerry, and I (and RKBA) will be worse off.
This is true even if Bush signs in a renewed AWB, because Kerry would sign in AWB and more, and will be nominating justices.
(By the way, it seems to me that if certain legislators succeed in pushing forward a bill with increased gun restrictions to succeed the AWB, Bush is no longer bound by his promise to sign it, because it is no longer the same law.)
Now, we’ll all be outraged if Bush signs the AWB, but the presidential election is the wrong time to make a point. The right time is at the presidential primary elections; don’t let potential AWB-signers even make it to the White House. The right time is also at the upcoming election, at the grassroots level: make sure your district and state legislators are pro-RKBA. The legislators are the ones who pass the laws that the president signs. Again, keep the bills from even making it to the White House.
If you want to vote Lib because you honestly don’t see any difference in Kerry and Bush, then I can’t argue with that. But for the rest of us who do see a difference, let’s not cut off our nose to spite our face.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Gene,
You still havent told me what country fell because it did not take care of its elderly.
You made that claim, please back it up.
You also skated around my question regarding how much tax you pay, but I will let that slide if you will just answer the first question.
You still havent told me what country fell because it did not take care of its elderly.
You made that claim, please back it up.
You also skated around my question regarding how much tax you pay, but I will let that slide if you will just answer the first question.
Jeff Timm
Member
Having been moved to Florida, where I am now a Republican (Declaration required to vote in this state) I have to say this state illustrates the power of a single vote.
Despite all the lies of the Democrats and their efforts to deny the right to vote to thousands and then deny the right to vote to an entire state, despite the neo-communist media deliberately sabotaging the election, in the end the people chose a President.
The continuing lies of the Democrats merely proves they are Communist style propagandists, racists and haven't really changed since the "Jim Crow" days.
Because of this propaganda, I can NEVER vote for a Democrat.
Geoff
Who notes he once had hope for the Democrat party, no more. :banghead:
Despite all the lies of the Democrats and their efforts to deny the right to vote to thousands and then deny the right to vote to an entire state, despite the neo-communist media deliberately sabotaging the election, in the end the people chose a President.
The continuing lies of the Democrats merely proves they are Communist style propagandists, racists and haven't really changed since the "Jim Crow" days.
Because of this propaganda, I can NEVER vote for a Democrat.
Geoff
Who notes he once had hope for the Democrat party, no more. :banghead:
Lone_Gunman
Member
So Gene, you are saying that all nations that have previously declined and fallen, from Babylon to the USSR, did so because of failure to provide adequate social programs for their elderly?
I dropped the question about how much taxes you pay, but considering the fact that you seem very willing to spend other people's money, I think I have a good idea where you are on that.
I dropped the question about how much taxes you pay, but considering the fact that you seem very willing to spend other people's money, I think I have a good idea where you are on that.
lgm, I don't know where you got the idea that I like spending other peoples' money, but one thing that IS obvious is that while I have no problem giving my share, you seem to have a problem with that, which shows you want something for nothing, so why don't we just drop this silly pointless parlay.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I don't think this is pointless.
You made a statement that you cannot substantiate, and now you are getting riled up because someone called you on it.
You said:
There is more wrong with that sentence than just bad punctuation. I agree a lot of cultures have been destroyed, but I don't think lack of social welfare for the elderly was the cause. All I am asking is for you to substantiate your comment, and if you can't then just say you can't.
I am still waiting for the list of countries that fell because they didnt provide social welfare to the elderly.
As far as "giving my share" is concerned, I think I ought to be able to keep more than 50% of the money I earn... don't you?
You made a statement that you cannot substantiate, and now you are getting riled up because someone called you on it.
You said:
There is more wrong with that sentence than just bad punctuation. I agree a lot of cultures have been destroyed, but I don't think lack of social welfare for the elderly was the cause. All I am asking is for you to substantiate your comment, and if you can't then just say you can't.
I am still waiting for the list of countries that fell because they didnt provide social welfare to the elderly.
As far as "giving my share" is concerned, I think I ought to be able to keep more than 50% of the money I earn... don't you?
lgm, don't you have anything better to do? Come on , it's Sunday, get out and get some sunshine. Don't you have any family to spend time with? My statement stands and NO way says that not caring for thier elderly was the direct cause of their downfall any more than saying all cultures who promoted gay marriage failed, means that gay marriage caused it, they were just symptoms of the overall morally decaying culture that led to their demise.
As far as taxes, if you don't know how to reduce your tax burden , not my problem, but you're ignoring all I've said about the real problem being Govt acountability on spending.
As far as taxes, if you don't know how to reduce your tax burden , not my problem, but you're ignoring all I've said about the real problem being Govt acountability on spending.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Well this is like arguing with a wall, so I will stop.
You are absolutely wrong to state that the sentence I quoted previously does not imply that those countries fell because they didnt take care of the elderly.
You are absolutely wrong to state that the sentence I quoted previously does not imply that those countries fell because they didnt take care of the elderly.
Ivy Mike
Member
I will not be voting
After I have examined the arguments of several people, I have decided not to vote at all.
Some say a vote for a third party takes away a vote from Kerry that could be used to get Bush out of office. Well, I wouldn't vote for Kerry anyway, so this doesn't matter to me.
Some say that a third party vote is one vote that Bush won't get and that is one step closer to Kerry in the white house. Well, I don't much care for Bush anyway.
Still others say that my state will vote either Democrat or Republican only. A third party has no chance at winning. Well, seems like my party has no chance of winning and a vote for my party equals a vote for one of the other guys. Our voting system continues to put the same two in power without ever letting any new ideas.
Why put power into (votes) a system that doesn't work for me anymore?
There is my feeling.
After I have examined the arguments of several people, I have decided not to vote at all.
Some say a vote for a third party takes away a vote from Kerry that could be used to get Bush out of office. Well, I wouldn't vote for Kerry anyway, so this doesn't matter to me.
Some say that a third party vote is one vote that Bush won't get and that is one step closer to Kerry in the white house. Well, I don't much care for Bush anyway.
Still others say that my state will vote either Democrat or Republican only. A third party has no chance at winning. Well, seems like my party has no chance of winning and a vote for my party equals a vote for one of the other guys. Our voting system continues to put the same two in power without ever letting any new ideas.
Why put power into (votes) a system that doesn't work for me anymore?
There is my feeling.
"After I have examined the arguments of several people, I have decided not to vote at all."
The you shouldn't have said anything at all after that, 'cause when you just don't vote, you waive your right to complain or discuss anything about it. That's why it's important to vote, if for no other reason.
The you shouldn't have said anything at all after that, 'cause when you just don't vote, you waive your right to complain or discuss anything about it. That's why it's important to vote, if for no other reason.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I agree with your sentiment, Wasrjoe, but as far as I can tell, GeneC doesn't pay taxes. Its OK though, he will just spend your money instead.
"Just because someone didn't vote doesn't mean they don't live in the USA or pay taxes."
Paying taxes gives you the right to representation, but If you don't vote for your representation , you have NO right complaining about the outcome, 'cause it does not apply to you. Living in the USA gives you the right to leave, especially if you're not gonna vote and think you're gonna sit around and complain, 'cause I and a WHOLE bunch of other voters don't wanna hear it.
Lgm, you again? listen, if you're stupid enough to give up your money , someone else may as well spend it, 'cause you certainly can't manage it.
Paying taxes gives you the right to representation, but If you don't vote for your representation , you have NO right complaining about the outcome, 'cause it does not apply to you. Living in the USA gives you the right to leave, especially if you're not gonna vote and think you're gonna sit around and complain, 'cause I and a WHOLE bunch of other voters don't wanna hear it.
Lgm, you again? listen, if you're stupid enough to give up your money , someone else may as well spend it, 'cause you certainly can't manage it.
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