Vote Bush instead of third party

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Lets see, vote for Bush because some people on a gun board think he'll be better than Kerry simply because he's a Republican. Hmmm....lets think about this, what has Bush done:
-Promised to sign the renewal of the AWB
-Pushed through the Patriot Act with little debate in Congress, what is the Patriot Act, pretty much the worst assault on our rights in decades.
-While I supported going to war in Iraq, Bush and his advisors have executed it in pretty much the worst way possible
-Increased the size of the Federal government more than anyone since LBJ
-Increased the size of the deficit to record levels (and no, it isn't just the war)


Yeah, right I see why you guys think Bush is so great:rolleyes:

I have to agree with this, posted earlier:
The thought of either Bush or Kerry as president just makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm probably voting Libertarian this time, despite not being a Libertarian, because there is no other choice. To me the choice of Bush or Kerry isn't just "lesser of two evils". When I think about one choice or the other I think "I can't think of a worse choice than Bush, except for Kerry. " but then I think "I can't think of a worse choice than Kerry, except for Bush". Both are pretty much my worst case candidate.

Those of you saying we should vote Bush, "because", are as bad as my dad who thinks Nader cost Gore the last election. Both assume that we owe the major parties our votes. Rather, I believe they need to earn our votes. If they don't, then you have a choice...find who is best, or barring that, least bad, and vote for them even if it turns out to be a third party. The two main parties are not owed your vote, but the longer you act like it, and the longer before you make them earn it, the longer they will act like you owe it to them, and the less likely we'll ever get any of our rights back. The attititude that one party or another deserves our votes (whether they earn it or not) isn't just why we are losing our rights, but it is why we deserve to lose our rights.


(here come the flames)
 
The rest of the story:

Abortion & Traditional Values

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade. 2. Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy. 3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton's policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act. 4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services. 5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals. 6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004. 7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act — and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman. 8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents. 9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools. 10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms). 11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline. 12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.

Budget, Taxes & Economy

1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history. 2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax. 3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks. 4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority. 5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty. 6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people. 7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts. 8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America. 9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals. 10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains. 11. Signed trade promotion authority. 12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches. 13. Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States. 14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes. 15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home. 16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled. 17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child. 18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000. 19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans. 20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.

Character & Conduct as President

1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency. 2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse. 3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:

Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: "War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing."

On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." The crowd roared with cheers and chants of "USA! USA! USA!" Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation.

Education & Employment Training

1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act. 2. Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education. 3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.) 4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight. 5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance. 6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards. 7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems. 8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.

Environment & Energy

1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty. 2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc. 3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives. 4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops. 5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger. 6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger. 7. Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California. 8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.

Defense & Foreign Policy

1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom. 2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured. 3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror. 4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed. 5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network. 6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century. 7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses. 8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency. 9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU. 10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year. 11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia. 12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ. 13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command. 14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs. 15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry. 16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006. 17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy. 18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments. 19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year. 20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports. 21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.

Globalization & Internationalism

1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant). 2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court. 3. Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).* 4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer. 5. Told the Congress and the world, "America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country."

Government Reform

1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises. 2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs. 3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.* 4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers. 5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.

Health

1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free. 2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health. 3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:

A 10-year privatization option.

Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.

More health care choices: As President Bush stated, "…when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What's good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.

New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you'll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.

Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration

1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush's leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security. 2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004. 3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield). 4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create "one face at the border." This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders. 5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity. 6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals. 7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones. 8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America's ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested. 9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies. 10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability. 11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization. 12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens. 13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications. 14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.
 
The rest of the story Part 2:

Judiciary & Tort Reform

1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits. 2. Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA. 3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary. 4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.

Politics

1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency. 2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes.

Second Amendment

1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right. 2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit. 3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers. 4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.

Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism

1. Endorses and promotes "The Responsibility Era." President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, "In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else — to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself." 2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world. 3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative — located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families. 4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration's belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring — even when Federal funds are involved. 5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court's Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible. 6. Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them. 7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development's Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year's worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states. 8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa. 9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, "No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity." As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:

Equal Justice

Freedom of Speech

Limited Government Power

Private Property Rights

Religious Tolerance

Respect for Women

Rule of Law

mazeltof, chaim :)
 
"1.) So believing there is not a viable candidate that you would vote for automatically disqualifies someone from holding any worthwhile political opinions, is that what you are saying?


2.)And seeing as how a very small percentage of the population votes anyway, I would imagine most would listen to me. They listen to the talking heads on TV, too. But whether or not they would listen to me does not define whether or not I am worth listening to."



1.) Yes,If you don't think there's a viable candidate, you're political opinion is very low anyway. If you don't vote, it's wothless.

2.)So you're saying since most people don't vote, they'd listen to you even tho you don't vote either. Sure , y'all can just talk each others' little heads off and it still won't mean a thing to ONE person who votes.

Why can't you understand that if we don't win this war on terrorism, they will become successful here in the US with suicide bombings and car bombings and sniper attacks everywhere ,all the time and the MOST Kerry or Badman will do is declare Martial law and call out a police state and play the blame game, while Americans die every day and all this talk about personal freedom this and that won't mean diddley. The Bush admin. has managed to keep ALL that terrorism out of the US for 3 yrs now and don't think for a minute that they haven't been trying and would LOVE to kill us. That HAS to mean something, that we can't afford NOT to re-elect Bush, as that admin is the most qualified to fight this war. Once we win this war , THEN we can fix our porblems, but this election is NOT the time to be thinking budget or personal this or that. Those that think it's bad 'cause companies are moving to other countries. What country is safe from terrorism( besides the US)? Don't you think as SOON as terrorists find out an American company has opened up in some 3WC, they'll IMMEDIATELY start planning how to blow it up? IMO, it won't be long before all Companies'll be back, 'cause it ain't safe nowhwere , but here, for now.
 
Why can't you understand that if we don't win this war on terrorism, they will become successful here in the US...
Just a guess, but maybe because it is not true? The War on Some Terrorism, as played out by the Bush administration, barely even rises to the level of a publicity stunt.

...all the time and the MOST Kerry or Badman will do is declare Martial law and call out a police state and play the blame game...
While I can certainly see Kerry declaring martial law (just as I can see Bush doing the same), the idea of Badnarik declaring martial law is almost as farfetched as the idea of Badnarik getting elected. A bit of rationality, if you please.

The Bush admin. has managed to keep ALL that terrorism out of the US for 3 yrs now...
Sure, by providing them with far more accessable targets in the ME.

Once we win this war...
At least one of Bush's advisors has stated openly that the intention is for the WoT to last forever. There is no way in hell I will throw my support behind someone psychotic enough to advance such a sick idea.

...but this election is NOT the time to be thinking budget or personal this or that...
Okay, for the last time. Terrorism is such a miniscule, insignifigant threat to this country that it is hardly worth talking about. You have more of a chance of being struck by lightning than of being injured by a terrorist attack. It is silly to worry about the unlikely threats when there are so many likely threats to choose from.

...

Oh, BTW Gene, you never did expain exactly why not voting negates one's right to complain about politics. I still submit that by voting, you've agreed to accept the outcome, and thus have no business compaining if the outcome isn't to your liking...

- Chris
 
The Bush admin. has managed to keep ALL that terrorism out of the US for 3 yrs now...

What do we define as "terrorism"?

Do the Maryland sniper shootings count?

What about the anthrax incident?

Does the guy in CO who took a bulldozer to the entire town count?

Does the sniper in OH (I think, don't hold me to it) count?

It seems we're being rather selective about what we define terrorism to mean everything that happens there but none of what happens here.
 
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"Once we win this war...
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At least one of Bush's advisors has stated openly that the intention is for the WoT to last forever. There is no way in hell I will throw my support behind someone psychotic enough to advance such a sick idea.


quote:
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...but this election is NOT the time to be thinking budget or personal this or that...
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Okay, for the last time. Terrorism is such a miniscule, insignifigant threat to this country that it is hardly worth talking about. You have more of a chance of being struck by lightning than of being injured by a terrorist attack. It is silly to worry about the unlikely threats when there are so many likely threats to choose from."

...
Well let's see, our war for INDEPENDENCE
took 4 YRS, the Civil WAR took 4yrs, WWI took 4 yrs, WWII took 4yrs, Viet Nam lasted 15 yrs, yeah, it might take time, but not forever.


Listen at you, was terrorism a minute , insignificant issue, hardly worth talking about on 9/11? How about 9/12? 9/13? 9/23? No, it was REAL and it is REAL and is all over this Earth, but here in the US. Everything you're saying is a tribute to the Bush Administration. Thankyou. Btw, I hope it is the last time you try this lame attempt to "recreate reality"(speaking of psychotic).
 
As a matter of principle, I won't vote for Bush if he signs AWB, nor will I vote for the traitorous Senator from my state who voted with DiFi for the AWB.

I think for the truly disturbed, and many have posted within this thread, there is no rational discussion to be had. Their rantings are indistinguishable from the pro-AWB crowd, claiming that something that is, is not, something that is potentially harmful if misused is already lethal, and that any tangible threat pales in comparison to the imaginary.

Bush is no saint, but when he is at his best, he is a leader to be admired. At his worst, he's a pol' that wants another term just like any other and is willing to compromise values he claims to hold dear.

If he doesn't sign AWB or equivalent anti-gun legislation before November, he'll get my vote. Kerry will aggressively pursue anti-gun policies, an internationalization by consensus from the irrelevant of our national security, will seek to steal from me to promote his agenda, and will appoint judges for life who will perpetuate the unchecked radical leftist tyranny from the judicial branch that afflicts us all.

Bush, because Kerry in the White House is unthinkable, and I have no intention of throwing away my vote unless W' forces me to.

Safe shooting (and don't hit those black helicopters overhead :neener: ),

CZ52'
 
Listen at you, was terrorism a minute , insignificant issue, hardly worth talking about on 9/11? How about 9/12? 9/13? 9/23?
That's exactly right. Your odds* of being substantially impacted by a terrorist attack are basically zero. That's a fact, and all of the ranting and raving in the world won't change it.

Why is it that some people really want to live their lives afraid, when there is nothing to be afraid of? And why do they insist of throwing away their liberty (and mine) is exchange for a worthless promise of protection against a non-threat?

* - I'm assuming that you are a private citizen, and not a deployed US soldier or something similar.

- Chris
 
What RileyMc said!

:D


Chaim, is it the reality of the situation that is confusing you?

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I have to agree with this, posted earlier:
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The thought of either Bush or Kerry as president just makes me sick to my stomach.
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One or the other WILL be President.

Any feel-good vote for the LP, while perhaps 'feeling good', will not alter the fact that Kerry or Bush will be President.

Bush is by far the better choice of the two for our RKBA.;)

This posturing on behalf of an obscure, unelectable party that is going to revise the system is just that, empty posturing.:rolleyes:

We've got a significant choice on RKBA, and Bush is the vastly superior one.

If you absolutely hate him, stay home, vote LP, write in someone, whatever.

But please be aware that any action to assist Kerry into the Presidency will negatively affect your RKBA.:scrutiny:
 
Regardless of the fact that I am gun owner and "President Kerry" would spell the end of that I cannot for the life of me find one positive reason to vote for him. Can someone tell me why I am wrong?
 
Chris Rhines said: "Why is it that some people really want to live their lives afraid, when there is nothing to be afraid of? And why do they insist of throwing away their liberty (and mine) is exchange for a worthless promise of protection against a non-threat?"


Ahhh, you're mistaking preparedness and diligence for fear. There's no fear here, just the reality that terrorism is real and the fact they won't stop 'til we're all destroyed and they try to get in on us every day, but the efforts of this Adminstration makes it SEEM like there's no threat, so people like you think just because something hasn't happened lately, there's no threat. Just look at the news any day and see the 'non threat' at work. You better believe they're just practicing for what'd they'd do over here, or you can "picture yourself on a boat on a river, with marshmellow clouds and marmalade skies.."
 
That's exactly right. Your odds* of being substantially impacted by a terrorist attack are basically zero. That's a fact, and all of the ranting and raving in the world won't change it.

Why is it that some people really want to live their lives afraid, when there is nothing to be afraid of? And why do they insist of throwing away their liberty (and mine) is exchange for a worthless promise of protection against a non-threat?

I recall/observe:

3000 Dead
A continuing war against the perpetrators
People who used to compete beside me who are now serving, and they are doing this because of an imagined threat to address an act of war that left 3000 imaginary dead?

Those thumps I hear of people jumping out of that skyscraper which must still be there, because there is no threat? They must really be home with their families, because there is no threat?

The impact to our economy, the incredible investment in resources and human life against delusional paranoia related to imagined deaths?

My colleage who really didn't have his head sawed off, because there is no threat?

The quote above attempts to wish away a tangible problem using the noble cause of civil liberty as a weapon of distortion.

Global Terrorism is a threat, whether immediate and physical or collateral depends on your circumstances.

Civil liberties must be weighed against security risks...victims of terrorism with real "non-beating" hearts represent a reminder of what the trade-offs involve.

The legitimate concerns of going too far in trading civil liberties in the name of security are completely valid. But don't tell me it isn't raining when I feel the water running down my back. It removes any credibility that your legitmate concerns may carry.

Stay safe,

CZ52'
 
CZ52GUY,

I agree with a lot of what you have to say, I certainly don't think the Jihadists are imaginary but doesnt it strike you as being very off that they havent at least blown up a few buses here? It doesnt take much and you can't tell me that they don't have a couple of guys here who would do it?

It seems to me that the true day-to-day threat is highly over blown and that bombing our way accross the world isnt exactly going to win the hearts and minds.
 
GG, exactly WHOSE hearts and minds should we be trying to win? Seems to me the rest of the World should be trying to win OUR hearts and minds, or we all forget about this whole heart and mind thing, 'cause so many Countries are So different and have their own problems, most'd just as soon not have to swap spit every time some bleeding heart gets sentimental. You might wanna dig a little deeper, you might've become "media sensitive", where you seem to think that if ANYTHING happens the media will report it, and so, if the media doesn't report it, it must not be happening. This Admin stops many , many attempts on a regular basis, but 're too busy to inform you, regardless of what you think.
 
CZ52GUY - I never claimed that terrorist attacks never happen - just that their likelyhood is so low that they ain't worth fretting about. They certainly aren't worth sacrificing liberty for, considering that the government promises of protection pretty much amount to flimsy gold.

- Chris
 
They certainly aren't worth sacrificing liberty for, considering that the government promises of protection pretty much amount to flimsy gold.
You assume a great deal. You have no knowledge of how many terrorist attacks may have been averted by the feds since 9/11. You also have no idea how the Patriot Act may or may not have helped them in this task.
 
This Admin stops many , many attempts on a regular basis, but 're too busy to inform you, regardless of what you think.
Care to cite a source?

You have no knowledge of how many terrorist attacks may have been averted by the feds since 9/11. You also have no idea how the Patriot Act may or may not have helped them in this task.
Welcome to specious reasoning 101.
 
This Admin stops many , many attempts on a regular basis, but 're too busy to inform you, regardless of what you think.

With so many attempts being stopped on a regular basis, you would think that some of the people they have stopped would have been put on trial, or at least their arrests made public.

Why not?
 
GG, exactly WHOSE hearts and minds should we be trying to win?

I'd like for people to think good fo the USA as opposed to bad, and I don't hear talking smack about the Swiss, maybe we should try being more like them. We are not the only people on the planet and it can be very difficult for us if enough nations decide to either not work with us or even decide to work against us. We are not omnipotent.

Seems to me the rest of the World should be trying to win OUR hearts and minds

Sure, I suppose we could just go in and bomb them if they dont. "Hey, you, stop hating us or we'll kill you" makes about as much sense as "the beatings will continue until morale improves". I guess we could just go on a global genocidal rampage and kill everyone that doesnt like us seeing how we have an endless supply of bodies and money.
 
My sister is going to the poll in November, and she is going to move the lever to Democrat, and vote a straight ticket. She has done that for thirty years. She thinks it leaves her in a better financial position in a manufacturing town in Iowa.
The first time I voted in my life ( I am now 55) I voted for Ross Perot, because I thought we needed someone in office that was a business man, instead of a politician. I have voted in every election since then, and I have voted for "A" candidate, not a party. If I ever find the candidates equal, I will vote republican, just to cancel out my dear sister's uninformed vote.

This election for president is trivial, the president is a figurehead, and someone to speak with other counties leaders.

The only thing the president elected this time will do of any importance is to create a new supreme court. He will be forced to dance on hot coals, and try to fight terrorists, without hurting anyone, he will be forced to reduce taxes, and increase benefits, without increasing the deficit. He will be expected to insure human rights to any captives we have incarcerated, and he will be expected to forget about Saddam hussein's mass graves of 300,000 plus bodies. He will be expected to forget the beheading of Berg, and any other American citizens that come into the power of the terrorist fanatics that want to kill all Americans. He will be expected to make friends with the countries that did not support our war in Iraq.

Take my vote and my faith, and go with it, Mr. Bush, no one is perfect, but I accept your mistakes and your good intentions.
 
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