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Maverick223
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Yep, I think you have the rifles covered...a few extra magazines might come in handy too.
VZ.58 Club:
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Rubber Slip-On Butt Pad, FSE USA or Leapers?
Hello Guys:
I own a VZ 2008 with the folding stock that I want to equip with one of those rubber slip-on butt pads that were originally designed for an AK47 with a grenade launcher. I've seen pictures in previous posts where several members here have already done so. The FSE USA.com site says that their pad ($17) is molded slightly smaller than normal for a better fit, and gives a 1/2 inch longer length of pull. Leapers / UTG sells the same design (Model 47) for $10-13 without a retainer strap, but claims that their pad gives a 1 inch increase length of pull. Since both pads look identical, I think one of them is wrong with their specs I'd rather buy the cheaper Leapers brand, especially if it has more LOP, but I'm concerned about the quality of the product (hardness of rubber, tendency to tear, etc.), and whether it will fit around the folding stock's butt plate tightly enough.
Can those of you who own these pads please measure the thickness of their pad, and let me know how tight or loose it fits on your folder? If anyone owns a Leapers pad, what do you think of the quality? Finally, if anyone has a spare butt pad they are willing to part with, please let me know! Thanks in advance!
Cary
Hello Guys:
I own a VZ 2008 with the folding stock that I want to equip with one of those rubber slip-on butt pads that were originally designed for an AK47 with a grenade launcher. I've seen pictures in previous posts where several members here have already done so. The FSE USA.com site says that their pad ($17) is molded slightly smaller than normal for a better fit, and gives a 1/2 inch longer length of pull. Leapers / UTG sells the same design (Model 47) for $10-13 without a retainer strap, but claims that their pad gives a 1 inch increase length of pull. Since both pads look identical, I think one of them is wrong with their specs
I'd rather buy the cheaper Leapers brand, especially if it has more LOP, but I'm concerned about the quality of the product (hardness of rubber, tendency to tear, etc.), and whether it will fit around the folding stock's butt plate tightly enough.Can those of you who own these pads please measure the thickness of their pad, and let me know how tight or loose it fits on your folder? If anyone owns a Leapers pad, what do you think of the quality? Finally, if anyone has a spare butt pad they are willing to part with, please let me know! Thanks in advance!
Cary
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Insulation or Metal Heat Shield For the Lower Hand Guard?
Fellow Shooters:
The one time I took my VZ 2008 out shooting, I quickly noticed how hot the lower hand guard got, after only two magazines of slow firing (100+ degree temps in the full sun didn't help). I read somewhere that someone used automotive exhaust manifold insulation, wrapping it around the bottom and sides of the lower hand guard, and leaving upper half of the barrel uncovered for cooling thru the side slots. I don't know how effective this mod was, but I'm willing to try it, or something similar (expanding foam insulation in-a-can?). Since I would actually prefer that my hand guard area be as cool as possible, I'm even considering taking it a step further and wrapping the insulation completely around the barrel (but below the piston rod). I assume that the heat will be conducted further down the barrel and also into the receiver, but since I don't do rapid fire / mag dumps, I don't think it will be excessive. Am I overlooking something? Will my non-chromed barrel & chamber wear quicker from the increased heat?
If the wrap is a bad idea, is there anything wrong with making a metal heat shield for the lower hand guard, like the upper shield, leaving air space around the barrel? I don't understand why the Czechs didn't include such a shield, or the Russians for the AK 47 for that matter. I see the large holes & slots in the NEIT and FAB lower hand guard designs for cooling purposes, but don't those also radiate an uncomfortable amount of heat onto the supporting hand, requiring a glove? If not, I may consider drilling holes in my lower hand guard, if I can figure out how to do so without it looking ugly. I refuse to wear a glove in the summer, though I may start to use the magazine as a vertical fore-grip. Any advice, info, or comments are welcome!
Cary
Fellow Shooters:
The one time I took my VZ 2008 out shooting, I quickly noticed how hot the lower hand guard got, after only two magazines of slow firing (100+ degree temps in the full sun didn't help). I read somewhere that someone used automotive exhaust manifold insulation, wrapping it around the bottom and sides of the lower hand guard, and leaving upper half of the barrel uncovered for cooling thru the side slots. I don't know how effective this mod was, but I'm willing to try it, or something similar (expanding foam insulation in-a-can?). Since I would actually prefer that my hand guard area be as cool as possible, I'm even considering taking it a step further and wrapping the insulation completely around the barrel (but below the piston rod). I assume that the heat will be conducted further down the barrel and also into the receiver, but since I don't do rapid fire / mag dumps, I don't think it will be excessive. Am I overlooking something? Will my non-chromed barrel & chamber wear quicker from the increased heat?
If the wrap is a bad idea, is there anything wrong with making a metal heat shield for the lower hand guard, like the upper shield, leaving air space around the barrel? I don't understand why the Czechs didn't include such a shield, or the Russians for the AK 47 for that matter. I see the large holes & slots in the NEIT and FAB lower hand guard designs for cooling purposes, but don't those also radiate an uncomfortable amount of heat onto the supporting hand, requiring a glove? If not, I may consider drilling holes in my lower hand guard, if I can figure out how to do so without it looking ugly. I refuse to wear a glove in the summer, though I may start to use the magazine as a vertical fore-grip. Any advice, info, or comments are welcome!
Cary
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Maverick223
Member
No! That is a recipe for a rifle on fire; avoid anything that cannot withstand high temperatures. I would also avoid manifold insulation as it will prevent the heat from escaping in the handguard area, thus making the barrel retain more heat and deteriorating accuracy/consistency.
If it were me (personally I don't find it to be a big problem so I haven't done anything to mine) I would try one of two solutions: The easier method is to paint the inside of the handguard (wouldn't hurt to paint the upper and lower if you wanted) with silver high temp grill/engine/manifold paint. Just make sure to mask the outside to avoid overspray. The more difficult (but arguably better) option is to line the inside with aluminum foil (shiny side out). You will need to use adhesive to adhere the foil (you don't want it floating as it won't be effective if it is allowed to contact the barrel).
I got around to slugging the barrel of my CAI VZ2008. Here are the results:
Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpuS02aJ2c4
Summary: The barrel grove diameter is .308, this is consistent with CZ671's slug of his VZ2008. The limited information available on the Internet about Century barrels are that they are 1 - 9.5 twist. I haven't come across any official information regarding barrel bore size (internal).
This creates a dilema for me in that:
A limited number of owners have the VZ2008 - .308 barrel and the information is scarce regarding .308 bullets in 7.62x39 casings (load data).
Plan for now: I am going to proceed with loading up .310 Barnes TSX and .310 Hornady Vmax and see what accuracy looks like on those loads.
In the future depending on community feedback and experience I may want to try some 125 - 150 grain .308 bullets but I certainly hope there is information out there to get me started.
Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpuS02aJ2c4
Summary: The barrel grove diameter is .308, this is consistent with CZ671's slug of his VZ2008. The limited information available on the Internet about Century barrels are that they are 1 - 9.5 twist. I haven't come across any official information regarding barrel bore size (internal).
This creates a dilema for me in that:
A limited number of owners have the VZ2008 - .308 barrel and the information is scarce regarding .308 bullets in 7.62x39 casings (load data).
Plan for now: I am going to proceed with loading up .310 Barnes TSX and .310 Hornady Vmax and see what accuracy looks like on those loads.
In the future depending on community feedback and experience I may want to try some 125 - 150 grain .308 bullets but I certainly hope there is information out there to get me started.
armoredman
Member
The vZ-2008 has a .308 bore? Interesting.
For the heating issue, I went with new forearm with rails, and a folding foregrip set up. That works best.
For the heating issue, I went with new forearm with rails, and a folding foregrip set up. That works best.
great video bennybone thanks for sharing. would definately encourage others to do this who were once hesitant. yes your your measurements and mine are exatctly the same. heres some measurements i did with 3 barrels
1. cz-usa vz58 barrel= -.313/.300, to make sure i slugged it twice and measurements are the same
2. vz 2008= .308/.300
3.original vz58 from my parts kit "barrel"=.311/.300
1. cz-usa vz58 barrel= -.313/.300, to make sure i slugged it twice and measurements are the same
2. vz 2008= .308/.300
3.original vz58 from my parts kit "barrel"=.311/.300
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Maverick223
Member
That is some unusual results. I knew some VZ.2008s had a .308 bore, but never would have guessed that the CZ/D.Technik barrel would have been as large as .313. I might have to slug mine and see if I come up with the same numbers...
rocinante
Member
If you look at the dtech receiver item at czechpoint it says the military barrels came in about six sizes so they make the receiver hole the smallest size and the barrel might have to be lathed down to fit. That doesn't mean there could be variation in the bore sizes too but it doesn't say it doesn't either. Maybe the military subbed the barrels to different manufactuers?
Either way I haven't heard folks complaining of either the CAI or czech barreled rifles key holing or accuracy problems attributed to bore size.
Shouldn't the optional size be .311 ?
Either way I haven't heard folks complaining of either the CAI or czech barreled rifles key holing or accuracy problems attributed to bore size.
Shouldn't the optional size be .311 ?
thats why im kinda scratchin my head right now, due to my bore size .313 vs the standard .311 my vz still gets good results in terms of accuracy, might have to slug again just to make sure. i can tell you this much having shot both rifles czvz and vz08, using same ammo sitting with a front bag, my vz shoots allot smoother hardly any kick to my cheek bone. but when i shoot the vz08 it has a signifcant more kick to my cheek bone actually hurts at times, im thinkin due to the .311 size brown bear fmj squeezin outa the vz08 bore of .308 seems to be tighter hence the more recoil i experienced, but just thinkin of the top of my head
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Maverick223
Member
ifit, have a recoil pad (or just a different stock design/LOP) on one? I doubt that bore diameter would make a great deal of difference, but then again I don't recall shooting a pair of rifles with such a great disparity in finished diameter that are chambered alike so I could be dead wrong.
SADshooter
Member
Current vz%* market/prices
Greetings, everyone:
I don't own a 7.62x39 rifle, though I've read a fair bit by default on gun forums, including most of this thread. Most of my experiences is with ARs, bolt guns and non-VZ/AK platforms. I came into some ammo, enough to "justify" a rifle purchase. An AK would be the obvious choice in terms of logistics, but I can't get excited about one. The vx58 seems the ticket.
So, what are the current purchase options on the market? Czechpoint is the only place I've found rifles for sale today, and the list prices seem a bit steep. (Understood that values have been climbing). Is there anyone else retailing the guns or offering custom packages?
Thanks,
SADShooter
Greetings, everyone:
I don't own a 7.62x39 rifle, though I've read a fair bit by default on gun forums, including most of this thread. Most of my experiences is with ARs, bolt guns and non-VZ/AK platforms. I came into some ammo, enough to "justify"
a rifle purchase. An AK would be the obvious choice in terms of logistics, but I can't get excited about one. The vx58 seems the ticket.So, what are the current purchase options on the market? Czechpoint is the only place I've found rifles for sale today, and the list prices seem a bit steep. (Understood that values have been climbing). Is there anyone else retailing the guns or offering custom packages?
Thanks,
SADShooter
SADshooter, might wan to check here, but not sure if they still have them at that price
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Io96odc9Lw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Io96odc9Lw
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Maverick223
Member
^That isn't a bad price for a D.Technik copy (not much more than I paid for mine prior to their increasing scarcity)...not a bad deal for the magazines either.
SADshooter, I feel the same way as you regarding the AKM, it's just ho-hum boxy stamped sheetmetal with a few well-placed rivets to hold the bits together. The milled variety of AK is even worse IMO, because it is not only much more costly but also significantly heavier. The aesthetics are improved, but that's about it...despite claims all milled variants have performed similarly to their stamped counterparts with respect to accuracy/reliability IME (taking into account barrel quality, et cetera). OTOH the VZ is svelte and lightweight by comparison, has better ergonomic features (LRBHO, 1-finger safety that protrudes to indicate position, & handles/balances well), good utilitarian features (good sights, stripper clip guide, et al), as well as above-par accuracy (better than any AK I have shot, though not as good as your average AR) and excellent reliability (everyone claims that the AK is more robust and reliable but I can't tell...in fact I have had more problems with AKs than VZs*). In short, I believe you'll find the VZ to not only fill the roll well, but also be an faithful range companion that you enjoy plinking with.
*Though I have more experience with AKs (mostly prior to discovering the VZ-58), which on average have performed well.
SADshooter, I feel the same way as you regarding the AKM, it's just ho-hum boxy stamped sheetmetal with a few well-placed rivets to hold the bits together. The milled variety of AK is even worse IMO, because it is not only much more costly but also significantly heavier. The aesthetics are improved, but that's about it...despite claims all milled variants have performed similarly to their stamped counterparts with respect to accuracy/reliability IME (taking into account barrel quality, et cetera). OTOH the VZ is svelte and lightweight by comparison, has better ergonomic features (LRBHO, 1-finger safety that protrudes to indicate position, & handles/balances well), good utilitarian features (good sights, stripper clip guide, et al), as well as above-par accuracy (better than any AK I have shot, though not as good as your average AR) and excellent reliability (everyone claims that the AK is more robust and reliable but I can't tell...in fact I have had more problems with AKs than VZs*). In short, I believe you'll find the VZ to not only fill the roll well, but also be an faithful range companion that you enjoy plinking with.
*Though I have more experience with AKs (mostly prior to discovering the VZ-58), which on average have performed well.
Perhaps you're right then...there is little else significantly different that would effect felt recoil.
Me and my hunting buddy reloaded ammo tonight.
The shoot-off (moment of truth) is this weekend. The goal is to group at 2 MOA at 100 yards.
Here are the components, RCBS die set with .308 expander ball and Lee Precision FCD, Accurate Arms 1680 powder, Winchester brass and CCI large rifle primers.
Green tips are .308 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tips with boat tail
Red tips are .310 123gr Hornady VMax flat base
I will be trying 4 different powder loadings across both bullets 25.0; 25.5; 26.0; 26.5 all AA1680
From left to right - Hornady 123gr SST factory loads in steel case; handloaded 123gr Vmax; handloaded 125 Nosler BT; Wolf Military Classic 124gr JHP; Uly 8m3 Saspan 124gr JHP; Herters 154gr soft points
I expect the Noslers to shoot the tighest grouping based on their high ballistic coefficient and my bore slugging out to .308.
There were two other bullets that had a higher BC (Sierra 135gr Matchking and Corbon 125gr JHP) but they aren't recommended for hunting applications and so to stay true to my intention for the gun I am going with the above.
BB
The shoot-off (moment of truth) is this weekend. The goal is to group at 2 MOA at 100 yards.
Here are the components, RCBS die set with .308 expander ball and Lee Precision FCD, Accurate Arms 1680 powder, Winchester brass and CCI large rifle primers.
Green tips are .308 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tips with boat tail
Red tips are .310 123gr Hornady VMax flat base
I will be trying 4 different powder loadings across both bullets 25.0; 25.5; 26.0; 26.5 all AA1680
From left to right - Hornady 123gr SST factory loads in steel case; handloaded 123gr Vmax; handloaded 125 Nosler BT; Wolf Military Classic 124gr JHP; Uly 8m3 Saspan 124gr JHP; Herters 154gr soft points
I expect the Noslers to shoot the tighest grouping based on their high ballistic coefficient and my bore slugging out to .308.
There were two other bullets that had a higher BC (Sierra 135gr Matchking and Corbon 125gr JHP) but they aren't recommended for hunting applications and so to stay true to my intention for the gun I am going with the above.
BB
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Hey SAD,
On another forum there is a guy in College Station TX selling a Century VZ2008 with 2 magazines for 400.00.
If you are interested send me a private message.
I called Century yesterday and asked them to dispell the rumor of not producing anymore VZ2008s and the guy says they don't have time right now but internally he knows of no decision to stop production forever.
Another option you can look at is a Ruger Mini 30 , new model with integral rings....
Welcome to the club.
BB
On another forum there is a guy in College Station TX selling a Century VZ2008 with 2 magazines for 400.00.
If you are interested send me a private message.
I called Century yesterday and asked them to dispell the rumor of not producing anymore VZ2008s and the guy says they don't have time right now but internally he knows of no decision to stop production forever.
Another option you can look at is a Ruger Mini 30 , new model with integral rings....
Welcome to the club.
BB
rocinante
Member
Benny sounds like you got a good time coming up and report back your results.
Personally I don't think 7.62x39 has much kick regardless of what I am shooting it out of. I have grenade pads on my folders but more for LOP. Funny with the AK or VZ when a younger boy shoots it for the first time there is fear but just the biggest grins after a couple of rounds.
Personally I don't think 7.62x39 has much kick regardless of what I am shooting it out of. I have grenade pads on my folders but more for LOP. Funny with the AK or VZ when a younger boy shoots it for the first time there is fear but just the biggest grins after a couple of rounds.
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Maverick223
Member
Bennybone, where on earth did you find a box of .310ca.l V-Max. (or have you had then for a while)?...I have scoured the net in search of a box.
The Mini-30 is a good rifle that, IMO, isn't deserving of its reputation for poor accuracy and broken firing pins. It weighs in a bit heavier, but is an excellent rifle...in fact, I nearly bought one instead of the VZ (but I do not regret my decision).
Glad to hear that they are at least considering continuing production.
The Mini-30 is a good rifle that, IMO, isn't deserving of its reputation for poor accuracy and broken firing pins. It weighs in a bit heavier, but is an excellent rifle...in fact, I nearly bought one instead of the VZ (but I do not regret my decision).
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Maverick223
Member
I have to agree, though I let a new shooter (who I would estimate was about 30YO) fire mine and the first shot stepped him back. That said, I believe that had more to do with the shock of it firing than anything else (and the fact that I didn't start him out properly using a rimfire).
@ Maverick:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/18013
Enjoy them while you can!!!
BB
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/18013
Enjoy them while you can!!!
BB
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Maverick223
Member
Thank you for the reference Benny! I have been looking for those for some time now, and had just about given up hope of finding any. I bought some loaded DoubleTap cartridges using the same projectile and was impressed with the results, but disappointed with the price. This should be just the ticket!
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Maverick223
Member
For original wood furniture your best bet is probably to peruse Gunbroker.com from time to time, however Ironwood Designs is now making furniture for the VZ. It costs a bit more, but they use pretty good blanks.
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