VZ.58 Club:
- Thread starter Maverick223
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i have read up on the 922r parts and its said that czech only uses 5 u.s. parts, ohio ordiance uses 5 also but ohio rapid fire used 6parts...when we build it our selves do we need 5 or 6 u.s.parts? i thought it was 7 but i guess not..cbr
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Maverick223
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I'm not positive but I believe that you need 5 US parts (from the official parts list) unless you add a muzzle device, in which case you need 6. Good luck with your build.
Just a heads-up for everyone tuning in, MidwayUSA has a clearance on a battle-pack of surplus magazines (4 in a leather pouch) for $46.22 (which honestly isn't a smoking deal as other retailers have it for a similar, perhaps even lesser, price and Midway's own dealer price was just $48.99). The ones that I received appeared to be in unissued condition. The same couldn't be said for the leather pouch, but I couldn't be happier, as I didn't buy it for the pouch.
Just a heads-up for everyone tuning in, MidwayUSA has a clearance on a battle-pack of surplus magazines (4 in a leather pouch) for $46.22 (which honestly isn't a smoking deal as other retailers have it for a similar, perhaps even lesser, price and Midway's own dealer price was just $48.99). The ones that I received appeared to be in unissued condition. The same couldn't be said for the leather pouch, but I couldn't be happier, as I didn't buy it for the pouch.
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Maverick223
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Still worth it IMO, particularly if you have other items on the list at the same time (I keep a running Midway list...which, it seems, they are perennially out of stock).
although i have a cz usa vz58, have always wanted a vz2008 for my beater gun cant really go wrong with the price. my local ffl dealer had one since last year but askin way to much $$$ for it, went to pick up some ammo from him and found out that he still had it, he realized that nobodys gonna buy it at his price, so guess he was tired of it and decided to let it go today, so i picked it up at a reasonable price. some pics, and range results soon to follow
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Maverick223
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Nice score, they are starting to get pretty scarce and therefore creeping up in price. Particularly the ones with wood.
I just hope that you don't have any problems with it as your warranty has since expired (1yr. from manufacture).
I just hope that you don't have any problems with it as your warranty has since expired (1yr. from manufacture).
thanks guys, yes gonna get a correct brake for it, as for the warranty i know but it just kept callin my name, went to the range for a short while just to put some rounds through it total of 60 rounds no problems what so ever except the trigger is very very heavy maybe needs to be broken in, the sights were way off, so i adjusted them at 50 yards, safety is backwards compared to my cz usa vz, gotta get used to that, but all in all i am happy with my purchase, some pics and rang results
you can see the vz2008 below, the receiver and top cover/bolt carrier are diffrernt shades nicknamed "Razor Back" hunh
target is 4-1/2" in diameter
you can see my first attempt with 10 shots, covered with tape, did better on my 2nd attempt
you can see the vz2008 below, the receiver and top cover/bolt carrier are diffrernt shades
nicknamed "Razor Back" hunh
target is 4-1/2" in diameter
you can see my first attempt with 10 shots, covered with tape, did better on my 2nd attempt
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Maverick223
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Glad to hear that you're not having any problems. As far as the mis-matched parkerizing, I doubt I would worry about it as I imagine it is much more closely matched in person (the camera's flash making it appear worse that it really is). OTOH if you want to do something I'd just paint the rifle (less controls, sights, and furniture of course) with NAPA low gloss black (or they might have a gray, IDK) as it leaves a nice powdery finish that is reasonably durable (better than any other rattle-can I've tried).
Need Help Diagnosing VZ 2008 Problem
Greetings All:
I'm glad I found this group! I'm hoping to get assistance regarding an issue I'm having with a used Century VZ 2008 I bought several weeks ago. Though dirty and dry when purchased, the rifle appears to have only been fired a little, based on the lack of wear on the finish of the bolt carrier and receiver rails.
The problem I'm having is that the bolt carrier sometimes jams and stops 2 inches from its closed position. It happens maybe once every 10-20 times that I manually cycle the action, BUT ONLY WHEN THE SAFETY IS OFF. When it occurs, the trigger is pushed all the way to the rear. Afterwards, there are 3 ways to close the action:
1. Pull the bolt carrier back again, and release it. If I pull the trigger afterwards, the striker releases.
2. Hit the bolt carrier handle forward pretty hard with palm of my hand. The bolt carrier slams shut, the trigger goes completely forward, but the striker does not release (it is not cocked).
3. Move the safety lever downward from "Fire" to "Safe". Half way between the two positions (at 45 degrees), the bolt carrier slams shut, the trigger goes forward, and if the lever is moved back to the "Fire" position and the trigger pulled, the striker releases.
This issue occurs with the magazine, dust cover, bolt, and locking block removed, so those parts are not involved. With just the carrier installed in the receiver, I can slide it easily and reproduce the problem. Examining the disconnector (the rounded lever in between the trigger and sear in the pic) and bolt carrier, the only damage I can see is that on one edge of the lowest forward corner of the welded on chunk of metal that Century added to the carrier, the metal is rough / scraped (hard to see in the pics, but at the pointer). This piece of metal contacts the disconnector when the bolt carrier is moved forward. The disconnector moves freely, and doesn't appear to be damaged.
With the carrier removed and the trigger pulled to the rear, when I move the selector from the "fire" to "safe" position, I can see the disconnector move slightly downward (It's even easier to see this downward movement with the trigger released, but I'm trying to duplicate the position of the involved parts when the carrier is stuck).
I took the rifle to the range, and fired 70 rounds (range report to follow soon). I had one FTF, at round 31. I had just inserted a magazine, and either pulled the bolt handle back slightly from the open position, or pulled it back completely from the closed position (I don't remember which; one of my two magazines doesn't lock the bolt open after the last round is fired), and chambered a live round. When I pulled the trigger, nothing happened (sear not cocked). I extracted the round from the chamber, verified the primer was not struck, reloaded the round, and proceeded to fire another 40 rounds without incident.
Based on the visual evidence of damage and the way the disconnector moves downward when the safety lever is manipulated, I believe that the welded metal extension on the bottom of the bolt carrier is binding when it contacts the disconnector (maybe jamming between the disconnector and the receiver?). Even when the carrier doesn't stick, I can feel something mechanically "happening" (but not binding) when the carrier is moving past that exact spot, every time I cycle the action, regardless of the safety lever's position. Has anyone else heard of this sticking problem, or experienced this themselves? I realize that the VZ.58 doesn't have the same fire control group(?) that the Century does. I have read on this forum vague mention of problems with the Century FCG design that was "improved upon" by D-Technik, but I can't find details of those alleged problems anywhere on the Web. The only problems I found related to a recall for loose / wobbly safety levers due to out of spec hole(s) in the receiver (mine is okay).
I would appreciate it if one or more VZ 2008 owners here would slowly move their bolts forward to the position indicated in my picture, and tell me if they feel something mechanically "happening" (for lack of a better term) at about that spot, so that I can determine if my rifle should be doing that, or not. I'd be interested to know if D-Technik rifles do it also. Since I have no warranty, I'm thinking I should smooth the rough area of metal with a file and emory paper. The area in question is not too high; it looks like its been peened down lower on the outer edge of the corner. Any thoughts, suggestions, or advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!
Cary
Greetings All:
I'm glad I found this group! I'm hoping to get assistance regarding an issue I'm having with a used Century VZ 2008 I bought several weeks ago. Though dirty and dry when purchased, the rifle appears to have only been fired a little, based on the lack of wear on the finish of the bolt carrier and receiver rails.
The problem I'm having is that the bolt carrier sometimes jams and stops 2 inches from its closed position. It happens maybe once every 10-20 times that I manually cycle the action, BUT ONLY WHEN THE SAFETY IS OFF. When it occurs, the trigger is pushed all the way to the rear. Afterwards, there are 3 ways to close the action:
1. Pull the bolt carrier back again, and release it. If I pull the trigger afterwards, the striker releases.
2. Hit the bolt carrier handle forward pretty hard with palm of my hand. The bolt carrier slams shut, the trigger goes completely forward, but the striker does not release (it is not cocked).
3. Move the safety lever downward from "Fire" to "Safe". Half way between the two positions (at 45 degrees), the bolt carrier slams shut, the trigger goes forward, and if the lever is moved back to the "Fire" position and the trigger pulled, the striker releases.
This issue occurs with the magazine, dust cover, bolt, and locking block removed, so those parts are not involved. With just the carrier installed in the receiver, I can slide it easily and reproduce the problem. Examining the disconnector (the rounded lever in between the trigger and sear in the pic) and bolt carrier, the only damage I can see is that on one edge of the lowest forward corner of the welded on chunk of metal that Century added to the carrier, the metal is rough / scraped (hard to see in the pics, but at the pointer). This piece of metal contacts the disconnector when the bolt carrier is moved forward. The disconnector moves freely, and doesn't appear to be damaged.
With the carrier removed and the trigger pulled to the rear, when I move the selector from the "fire" to "safe" position, I can see the disconnector move slightly downward (It's even easier to see this downward movement with the trigger released, but I'm trying to duplicate the position of the involved parts when the carrier is stuck).
I took the rifle to the range, and fired 70 rounds (range report to follow soon). I had one FTF, at round 31. I had just inserted a magazine, and either pulled the bolt handle back slightly from the open position, or pulled it back completely from the closed position (I don't remember which; one of my two magazines doesn't lock the bolt open after the last round is fired), and chambered a live round. When I pulled the trigger, nothing happened (sear not cocked). I extracted the round from the chamber, verified the primer was not struck, reloaded the round, and proceeded to fire another 40 rounds without incident.
Based on the visual evidence of damage and the way the disconnector moves downward when the safety lever is manipulated, I believe that the welded metal extension on the bottom of the bolt carrier is binding when it contacts the disconnector (maybe jamming between the disconnector and the receiver?). Even when the carrier doesn't stick, I can feel something mechanically "happening" (but not binding) when the carrier is moving past that exact spot, every time I cycle the action, regardless of the safety lever's position. Has anyone else heard of this sticking problem, or experienced this themselves? I realize that the VZ.58 doesn't have the same fire control group(?) that the Century does. I have read on this forum vague mention of problems with the Century FCG design that was "improved upon" by D-Technik, but I can't find details of those alleged problems anywhere on the Web. The only problems I found related to a recall for loose / wobbly safety levers due to out of spec hole(s) in the receiver (mine is okay).
I would appreciate it if one or more VZ 2008 owners here would slowly move their bolts forward to the position indicated in my picture, and tell me if they feel something mechanically "happening" (for lack of a better term) at about that spot, so that I can determine if my rifle should be doing that, or not. I'd be interested to know if D-Technik rifles do it also. Since I have no warranty, I'm thinking I should smooth the rough area of metal with a file and emory paper. The area in question is not too high; it looks like its been peened down lower on the outer edge of the corner. Any thoughts, suggestions, or advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!
Cary
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Maverick223
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Welcome to the club, Cary!
I haven't a Vz-2008 to try, but I got out the D-Technik and it seems to bind a tiny bit at that same location. I can't really tell what's going on, but I believe that the trigger feather may be compressed at that location, because it is only "binding" very, very slightly (at least on my example), and does so with or without the action/striker springs.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
I haven't a Vz-2008 to try, but I got out the D-Technik and it seems to bind a tiny bit at that same location. I can't really tell what's going on, but I believe that the trigger feather may be compressed at that location, because it is only "binding" very, very slightly (at least on my example), and does so with or without the action/striker springs.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
rocinante
Member
cchaing1 I don't think you have a problem. Doctor Doctor it hurts when I .. WELL DON'T DO THAT!!!
Make sure your top cover is seated properly. I just tested my 2 vz2008 to see and one seemed to do what you said but the left front guide of the top wasn't seated properly. Both have a slight drag about where you mentioned but neither stop completely. Just pull the bolt all the way back and let it go snap close every time.
Make sure your top cover is seated properly. I just tested my 2 vz2008 to see and one seemed to do what you said but the left front guide of the top wasn't seated properly. Both have a slight drag about where you mentioned but neither stop completely. Just pull the bolt all the way back and let it go snap close every time.
Yes, I'm well aware of how a mis-seated or mis-aligned top cover can cause the bolt carrier to bind and drag. The seller put it on wrong when he demonstrated the rifle to me, and badly scuffed the finish on the left side of the bolt carrier when he pulled it back and forward forcefully several times afterwards. In that situation, the carrier was binding badly along its entire range of movement, and I would not have tried nor been able to fire 70 rounds in that configuration. My bolt carrier moves normally MOST of the time, but sticks open about once every 10-20 times I pull it back and *release* it, with the top cover & recoil / striker springs in place to push it forward (and with or without a magazine, bolt, striker, or locking piece installed to cause friction), or even with the top cover / springs removed and just sliding the carrier back and forth by hand. Definitely not normal nor acceptable.
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Maverick223
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I'd be afraid to file down the SA block (the part that the pointer references), but that is probably the part that needs to be modified. The only problem is taking it too far which could cause malfunctions, and you would be modifying a part that, per my understanding, is expressly used to delete FA functionality (don't know how they might find out, but you certainly don't want to have problems with the ATF).
No worries, Maverick. I'm only going to smooth out the roughened metal at the point that it initially contacts the disconnector, or at the very most re-contour it very slightly to give it a little more of a gradual slope at the point of contact. I'm certainly not going to reshape or reduce it from its original total height and length.
By sliding the bolt carrier (minus bolt, striker, locking piece) back and forth in the receiver and taking measurements, I've determined that where the SA block (if that's what that welded-on piece of metal on the bottom of the bolt carrier is called) is initially contacting the disconnector, is the point that my bolt carrier is sticking. I've also noticed that rotating the selector lever from the "fire" to the "safe" position causes the disconnector to lower itself approximately 3/32 to 1/8 of an inch. I surmise that this is why rotating the lever allows the bolt carrier to "un-stick" itself; the SA block is caught against the disconnector, and rotating the selector lever halfway towards "safe" lowers the disconnector just enough to allow the SA Block to slide over it. I will do a little polishing on the initial contact point of the SA block, and post the results.
Cary
By sliding the bolt carrier (minus bolt, striker, locking piece) back and forth in the receiver and taking measurements, I've determined that where the SA block (if that's what that welded-on piece of metal on the bottom of the bolt carrier is called) is initially contacting the disconnector, is the point that my bolt carrier is sticking. I've also noticed that rotating the selector lever from the "fire" to the "safe" position causes the disconnector to lower itself approximately 3/32 to 1/8 of an inch. I surmise that this is why rotating the lever allows the bolt carrier to "un-stick" itself; the SA block is caught against the disconnector, and rotating the selector lever halfway towards "safe" lowers the disconnector just enough to allow the SA Block to slide over it. I will do a little polishing on the initial contact point of the SA block, and post the results.
Cary
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Maverick223
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I look forward to hearing about your results, and hope all goes well.
North Eastern Arms
Member
Can you take a picture of the conflicting components?
I have some of the most experience with this platform anywhere (Put +150K rnds through them, designed and built many of the aftermarket components for the VZ). That being said, I have zero experience with the Century guns only the Factory Czech Vz's, D-Tectnik and Czech Small Arms models. I have heard a lot about the hit and miss quality of the Century guns, but a VZ is a VZ.. the operation should be the same.
Can you snap a pic of the inside of the receiver and the underside of the carrier?
There are several parts added to the various models for various reasons, some create issues, others purely superficial.
I have some of the most experience with this platform anywhere (Put +150K rnds through them, designed and built many of the aftermarket components for the VZ). That being said, I have zero experience with the Century guns only the Factory Czech Vz's, D-Tectnik and Czech Small Arms models. I have heard a lot about the hit and miss quality of the Century guns, but a VZ is a VZ.. the operation should be the same.
Can you snap a pic of the inside of the receiver and the underside of the carrier?
There are several parts added to the various models for various reasons, some create issues, others purely superficial.
North Eastern Arms
Member
... Nevermind, My Blackberry didn't show your pics above.
That piece added to the carrier is called a "tab". It's added to SA VZ's to prolong the trip across the sear to ensure that it reengages when firing. In Canada VZ rifles do not come with this alteration thus some rifles experience what VZ Shooters call the "Gremlin". This is added because without the Auto Sear installed, having just the end of the carrier tail trying to trip that little sear sometimes faults.
As someone that has installed over a hundred of these there are some things to note that if done improperly will lead to issues.
Tab too thick or protruding past carrier tail side wall. - Will cause the carrier to drag, move slow, stick or hang up.
Tab too low - Will bind when trying to return into battery
Tab too long - Mags will not seat, or will bind.
Looking at your pictures you have a combination of #1 & 2. This can be easily fixed by taking a good sharp broad file and truing up the side of the tab so that it is not protruding past the side wall of the carrier tail. Also Square up the bottom of the tab so that it is parallel to the carrier. Yours may be a little low at the tip where you are pointing to the wear.
This is what a properly tabbed carrier should look like;
That piece added to the carrier is called a "tab". It's added to SA VZ's to prolong the trip across the sear to ensure that it reengages when firing. In Canada VZ rifles do not come with this alteration thus some rifles experience what VZ Shooters call the "Gremlin". This is added because without the Auto Sear installed, having just the end of the carrier tail trying to trip that little sear sometimes faults.
As someone that has installed over a hundred of these there are some things to note that if done improperly will lead to issues.
Tab too thick or protruding past carrier tail side wall. - Will cause the carrier to drag, move slow, stick or hang up.
Tab too low - Will bind when trying to return into battery
Tab too long - Mags will not seat, or will bind.
Looking at your pictures you have a combination of #1 & 2. This can be easily fixed by taking a good sharp broad file and truing up the side of the tab so that it is not protruding past the side wall of the carrier tail. Also Square up the bottom of the tab so that it is parallel to the carrier. Yours may be a little low at the tip where you are pointing to the wear.
This is what a properly tabbed carrier should look like;
Dave:
Are the pics at the bottom of my original post #286 on July 9th sufficient? Sorry the last pic doesn't show the entire fire control mechanism; I was trying to show the disconnector. I've never examined a "real" VZ.58, but based only on Nalioth's pictures of a VZ.58 here:
http://www.novarata.net/vz58-pictorial.php
the Century has a SA block welded to the bottom of the bolt carrier, and it appears that the sear is considerably wider, using both spring "leaves" (leafs?). The disconnector looks the same. The safety lever is different, since it functions in the "semi" / rearward location, and not the forward direction like the D-Technik types.
I welcome any observations that you (and especially anyone who owns and can compare both rifles) can offer about the internal differences between the two. I have read on this forum a vague mention of problems with the Century FCG design that were "improved upon" by D-Technik, but I can't find details of what those alleged problems were. Any details you can offer on that subject would be great, also.
Cary
Are the pics at the bottom of my original post #286 on July 9th sufficient? Sorry the last pic doesn't show the entire fire control mechanism; I was trying to show the disconnector. I've never examined a "real" VZ.58, but based only on Nalioth's pictures of a VZ.58 here:
http://www.novarata.net/vz58-pictorial.php
the Century has a SA block welded to the bottom of the bolt carrier, and it appears that the sear is considerably wider, using both spring "leaves" (leafs?). The disconnector looks the same. The safety lever is different, since it functions in the "semi" / rearward location, and not the forward direction like the D-Technik types.
I welcome any observations that you (and especially anyone who owns and can compare both rifles) can offer about the internal differences between the two. I have read on this forum a vague mention of problems with the Century FCG design that were "improved upon" by D-Technik, but I can't find details of what those alleged problems were. Any details you can offer on that subject would be great, also.
Cary
Ignition Override
Member
ifit: Is your trigger stiffness reported to be fairly typical?
My Norinco trigger is somewhat smooth, but fairly tight.
Even my gun smith suggested a Timminy trigger instead of having somebody work on it, but this seems pricey.
My Norinco trigger is somewhat smooth, but fairly tight.
Even my gun smith suggested a Timminy trigger instead of having somebody work on it, but this seems pricey.
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Thanks for your detailed reply and pic, Dave. You answered while I was formulating my response to your earlier post. If the Canadian rifles don't come with an Auto Sear, which civilian ones do? It sounds like installing the tab is common to Canadian VZs to increase reliability. It's nice to know that the Century rifles already have this "improvement", even if occasionally installed imperfectly. Any other insights you can supply regarding how the mechanism was modified by various companies, differences between designs, any specific problems associated with the Century, etc. I'm sure would be of interest to readers of this group.
Cary
Cary
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Maverick223
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Dave, thank you for sharing your expertise. It's great to have someone intimately familiar with the platform for occasions when problems arise.
None that I am aware of (at least here in the US). Importation of Vz.58s of any flavor is a relatively new phenomena, and civilian legal FA models would have to be manufactured, imported, and registered prior to '68. OTOH I am sure that some lucky folks have FA dealer samples.
I am sure that Dave can shed more light on the subject, but from my understanding this part was added to make SA operation more reliable and reduce (or eliminate) the likelihood of the rifle firing bursts.
Dallas1
Member
NICE!
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