WA state alert: In case you thought your gun rights were safe, read this.

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Oro

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Analyzing the vote by sate on the Coburn amendment is eye opening. This is the amendment to allow carry in National Parks. The roll call votes are really shocking when broken down by state. Washington was, as a percentage of legislators opposing the amendment and thus banning citizen carry of firearms, just behind the following states:

% "Anti"

MA
CT
MD
NY
WA
NJ
IL
etc...

These are not figures on the bill itself; strictly on the carry amendment - which can be seen as a very clean, no-nonsense referendum on how a legislator views the 2nd amendment and the right to both keep and bear arms. Note that WA was more anti than IL or NJ in it's delegations voting. I've posted more detail about who in OR and WA voted what. It's important to keep this in mind. Heller certainly proved nothing. A majoirity of our elected officials are working hard to halt and reverse gun rights.

Here's another thread on a regional board, with links to the actual vote tallies and individual vote by representatives and senators:

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=24
 
I am actually surprised how many Representatives from Illinois voted for the amendment. I think 11 went for it and 10 against. I expected our downstaters to vote for it, even the Democrats. But the collar county reps did better than I had expected. My district has a Fermilab physicist turned Democrat politician named Bill Foster who I thought was going to vote against the amendment, and he voted for it. I'm starting to like the guy.
 
While it's no real surprise, they don't vote on laws (specifically) for the state of Washington. Your thread title isn’t really accurate.
 
WA State Laws

Could any of the four of you Senior Members kindly direct me to details on Washington's gun laws? Do any of the counties have different laws then the rest?

Want to make sure I use my CCP lawfully at all times.

Thanks for your time.
 
here ya go my friend: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41

WA state pre-empts all gun laws. there are no county to county or city to city differences.

your CPL is good everywhere except Nat'l Parks (until next Feb) courthouses, jails, secure areas of airports and the portions of restaurants and bars that are off limits to those under 21. open carry is legal in WA and you'll need a CPL if you wish to carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle. all the details are in the link above.

Bobby
 
Police tell me that a loaded handgun must still be on your person in a vehicle. I keep a semiauto with a loaded mag next to it in the glove box.
 
ah, yes. Navy LT is correct. no loaded rifles in cars.

the law does specifically say that your gun must be on your person while in the vehicle (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050) but if i recall correctly, there was an attorney general's opinion published by Ken Eikenberry in the 80's that said that things like glove boxes and consoles were ok. i'll see if i can find it.

Bobby
 
Last edited:
TCOV said:
Police tell me that a loaded handgun must still be on your person in a vehicle. I keep a semiauto with a loaded mag next to it in the glove box.

And in Washington State, what that particular police told you is WRONG.

RCW 9.41.050:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

Notice the OR. The requirement is that you have a CPL "and:" any ONE of the following conditions after that: it is on your person OR you are in the vehicle at all times the pistol is there OR if you leave the gun in the vehicle unattended, you conceal that pistol and lock at least the vehicle.

If the police are trying to tell you that conditions i AND ii must be met at the same time, then, by their incorrect reasoning, condition iii must also be met at the same time which makes no sense whatsoever and does not hold to the rules of grammar and sentence structure.
 
Thanks guys!

Personally, I leave my .357 unloaded in the car, but have a speedloader strapped on to the holster when its not on my person.

Maybe this would be a good thread to start in Tactics Forum, but I'll just ask here; Do you feel that carrying a gun and ammo separate is a poor choice in that when a situation arises and all non lethal options are exhausted the seconds it takes to load your weapon are too crucial? I just feel like a gun should be loaded only immediately before it is to be used.

Not trying to stir the pot, I'd just like to hear other people's reason for carrying loaded, or carrying with clip/mag/speedloader separate, but at the ready.
 
NavyLt, you and I read the RCW the same and I know that you can leave a loaded handgun locked in your vehicle. I'm just saying that more than one LEO has told me that I need to have the handgun touching my person if it's loaded and I am in the vehicle. I was stopped once by WSP and had a pistol on the hump by the shifter under a rag. He took my pistol while he wrote a speeding ticket but never said anything about it. That was the only time I've been asked about carry permit. We know the RCW language could be a little more clear but I don't like going before judges so conduct myself according to the information given if I can live with it. The glovebox gun is fullsize 1911 and I still carry a loaded compact on my person. Has anyone in WA had much experience with LEO and a handgun in the car?
 
in my opinion, carrying a gun in any other condition than loaded and chambered is about as effective as carrying a really expensive club or rock. should a situation arise where you would have to defend yourself with your gun, there's a pretty good chance you'll be pumped up on adrenaline. that doesn't lend itself well to precision use of fine motor skills, such as those required to unholster, take out the speed loader, open the cylinder, load, close the cylinder, aim and fire. that's five extra steps that are rather unnecessary, take time and each one of those extra five steps is another opportunity for you to fumble something and for your attacker to capitalize.

i also think that the glove box is a terrible place to keep a gun. in the event of a carjacking from the passenger side, you're hosed.

just my opinions

Bobby
 
found the AG opinion. actually is the opinion of the Sr. Asst. AG from 1987, Richard Heath. it's in PDF format and i can email it to you if you wish. i'll try to paste the contents here. much thanks to Marty Hayes of Firearms Academy of Seattle for providing me the letter.

1l:\ll'l l: (tl .ll Sl l( t . (rl \'\ll'1,\. $"\ 9s5tlr'rl.'1:l o l'llt)\li llrt 7.s-l'(,:tt(l
March 13, 1987
Honorable Kent Pullen
State Senator, 47th 0istrict
!2-A Legislatf ve Building
0lympia, Hashington 98504
Dear Senator Pullen:
Your question concerning the proper interpretation of RCH 9.41 .050(3)
has been referred to me for reply. The specific question which you have
asked is:
llay a person who possesses a val id concealed weapon permit,
and who is within a vehicle, legally possess a loaded pistol . within the vehicle which is not on'his or her person?
For the reasons set forth below, it is my opinion that your question should
be answered in the affirmative.
RCt.| 9.41.050(3) provides: (Now Rctr 9.4r.050(2))
A person shall not carry'or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle
unless the person has a I icense to carry a concealed weapon
and: (a) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (b) the'licensee
is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there,
or (c) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol
is locked within the vehicle and concealed frorn view from outside
the vehicle.
The literal and granmatical construction of this statute requires subparts (a), (b) and (c) to be read in the disjunctive, i.e., as if the word "oru
appeared between (a) and (b). llhen read in that manner it is clear that
a loaded pistol need not be carried on one's person when that person is
in the vehicle.
A basic rule of statutory construction is that
is clear and unambiguous, there is no room for
to mean anything different than what it literally
87 tln.2d 7BA, 55 P.2d 340 (lSZ01
when the language used
construing the language
says. llatfield Y. Gree11,
l{ono rabl e Ken t Pul I en
Harch 13, 1987
Page 2
There are two exceptions to this rule. If a literal reading. Oljdy::t
i6ii,ia -resul ts ii wir t not be fol lowed. state y. Keller, 98 rln.2d 725,
657P.2dl384rrgg3j.tnthiscase'noaffi.irthestatute
is read to alliw a person not to have to carry the pistol while he or
she is in the car.
The second exception applies to those situations in which a literal reading
of the statute'is ouviously contrary to legislative intent. Silver Shores
lbbile Home park, Inc. v. city.of Ev , Bl nn.Zd ol8,3ts p-Es pTiliII
f"t House 3:lt'600 lthg qili
itit imended RCl.l 9.41.050 tdits current languagel describes the law before
and after the bill as follows:
BACKGR0UND: [The law before HB 600]
Anyone who carries a loided pistol in a vehicle must carry it
on-onl't person. If it is not on one's person, the weapon must
be unloaded. There is no provision for carrying or leaving
a weapon,loaded or unloaded, in a car.
SUMMRY: [The law after HB 600]
O"'r^roaded, licensed pistol may be left in a vehicle, but only
ii the pistbl is locked in the vehicle and concealed from view.
A loaded, licensed pistol may be carried or placed in a vehicle
only if *-he pistol' is carried or the licensee's P-e!'son' fhe '
lfcinsee remains ih the vehicle at all times the pis-tol is there'
"",
ii the licensee ls not present, the pistol is locked within
the vehicle and hidden from view.
Leqislative Report, at 5l-52.
bill reports are
Edmonds Y. PERC'
Legi sl ati ve
See Port of
a-icocae'pinta.bZled sources of -lgSi-slative history'
331 , 336, 6s2- P.2d Bl4 (1985)'
Tilis clea- fromTh'ia piece of legislative history that one of the reasons
'l'l lt: z\'l-l'()ltNl:\' CliNl:lL'\l-
Honorable Kent Pul len
Harch 13, 1987
Page 3
for amending RCl.l 9.41.050 was to make it possible for a loaded pistol
to be carried other than on one's person when that person is in an
automobi I e.
In summary, the plain language of the statute, internal consistency and
legislative intent al I requfre an affirmative answer to your question.
RCI 9.41.050 permits a person who possesses a valid concealed weapon permit,
a.nd who is within a vehicle,.to legally possess a loaded pistol within
the vehicle which is not on his or her person.
ilopefully, the foregoing has been of assistance to you. t Very_.tr9lyloursr- Jf
[#;:^(i Sr. Assistant Attorney General
MH: lcs
cc: Christine 0. Gregoire, Deputy Attorney General
Chip Holcomb, Assistant Attorney General - l'lSP
 
Bobarino, thanks for the reference,I will look at it closely later as I'm busy now. I would like to make a copy to keep but looks as loaded carry in vehicle with permit need not be on person. Thanks for the research.
 
Bobarino, thanks for the copy of the AG opinion. I made copies and will keep one in my glovebox. I always carry a compact handgun on my person but figured a car gun might as well be full size. My truck is an older Toyota so glovebox is an easy reach and if I was in an uncomfortable area I moved it to the seat. Once again, thanks for your help.
 
Are you really surprised by this? Honestly with all the influence over politics Seattle (the big gay apple) has I'm not shocked at all. I really don't consider Washington to be a apart of the real west beyond Ellensburg.
 
I really don't consider Washington to be a apart of the real west beyond Ellensburg.

Ah, there are good people all the way to to Easton! Seriously though, yes, you are right. The west ends right at the passes over the Cascades; it's like day and night.
 
Oro:The west ends right at the passes over the Cascades...

And starts up again about Discovery Bay or so. We're the far western outpost of sanity.

Parker
 
I'm glad we don't have those kinds of crazy laws in regards to how and where you can carry a gun in your car or on your person. Our only weird law is that you can't carry a gun on a train, that law derives from the train robbing days of the old west and has never been enforced to anyone's knowledge.

In Montana you can't carry your concealed weapon into any Government building it must be carried out in the open when in those places.

My brother lives in SpoCompton Washington. I'm totally blown away how divided Washington is politically. Its the most stark political contrast I've ever seen.
 
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