Walker Wedge Issue

[rodwha]

I've read often that the Walker will batter the wedge if a steady diet of stout charges are used. Would a few extra wedges keep it going or does it also batter the arbor slot? Will it eventually open up the cylinder gap?

I'm wanting a handgun for hunting that can handle a steady diet of 55+ grns of 3F in .44 (revolver) or .50 cal (as I have a .50 cal rifle) percussion pistol at a reasonable price (under $600). I feel a need for a Walker anyway as I like the history behind it. The awe factor is always good too!

I have an Old Army so there's no point in a Dragoon as my ROA can easily duplicate it, but with better sights.

I would like a .50 cal pistol, but it seems they all have a light max load with a PRB (~40 grns).

The Howdah is cool, but quite expensive. But I think these also have lighter max charges.

This all brings me right back to the Walker. I'm just not sure if it can handle a lifetimes worth of heavy charges without destroying the gun itself. A wedge isn't a big deal...

 

[EljaySL]

I think you just have to replace the wedge periodically but it's just an impression. I usually load mine with 40gr 777 powder since it runs really well so I've never really worried about it. Perhaps somebody else will chime in on that part.

re: the howdah - the official rating is kind of absurdly low and people run it much, much higher. It's a very rare case where if you want one I'd just ignore the ratings and shoot whatever you're comfortable with. Mine runs very well with... 40gr 777, same as the Walker but I've gone as high as 60 and it's starting to get unpleasant to shoot from the recoil. (I have the 20 gauge). I wouldn't hesitate to go higher if I were hunting, however.

 

[rodwha]

We are wanting to move from Texas, and our first choice would be near the Rockies in Colorado or northern Arizona/New Mexico. If this works out for us I'd want something that can handle more than my Old Army (45 grns 3F T7 with RB or 35 grns and 240 grn bullet). Those figures ought to produce ~500 ft/lbs, which is great for medium game. But I'd want something that can do better if given the chance to hunt cow elk, or if I find myself in bear country, which would be likely.

 

[Noz]

Read Pettifogger's articles on tuning Uberti revolvers. Follow that and unless you go stupid on the powder charge, the Walker wedge will last just fine.

These are Pietta oriented but will suffice.

He has a similar work on Ubertis.

 

[kituwa]

With a round ball i dont think you will gain much over the ROA.There seems to be a limit to how much powder will burn in a short barrel.With heavier conicals i think you may be ahead of the old army a bit because you have plenty of room for a good charge of powder and still seat a conical and of coarse the heavier bullet allows it to burn the powder better in the short barrel.The walker does have a 9 inch over the old armys 7 1/2 too. I have a walker but have not shot it much so i cant say for sure but i think it would mostly batter the wedge, not the gun.That is if its fitted right to start with and does not suffer the short arbor thing because that stresses where the arbor fits in the frame.In reality i dont think the walker will have a lot over the ROA as far as power goes. They are two very diffrent guns though and both are a blast.

 

[rodwha]

Ultimately I'd like to have Lee make me a custom mold from their 200 grn RNFP bullet. I figure it may be a good compromise between expansion, penetration, and capacity/velocity. But it's a bit costly, and I don't even cast.

So far the best option I have is a cast 180 grn RNFP, but it doesn't have much of a meplat.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I would do as NOZ said and look at Pettifoggers instructions on tuning Uberti revolvers. Prob. the most important thing would be the "arbor fix" and then fitting the wedge accordingly. When you fix the arbor, you will be defining the barrel /cyl. gap. Make sure the chamber / bore alignment is perf.

I like to drill and tap the arbor for set screw at the end for "wedge ware". That and a "captured wedge " will keep your barrel/ cyl. gap constant. A captured wedge is easy to do and will not allow the wedge to move in either direction. I do it to all my open tops. I don't do the wire spring thing, I tune the flat springs the way the old timers did and it makes a world of difference in the life of the springs as well as the "feel" of the action.

I said in another post that open tops are like hot rods, you never get done with um, your just at different stages of making great even better !!!

45 Dragoon

 

[kendak]

all you going to do with 55gr in a Walker is spit unburned powder out on the ground ...put a white sheet on the ground in front & shoot it ...ROA will kill anything in the USA with 45gr of 777 & a RB & do it for years without coming apart ...take care

 

[45 Dragoon]

I think the question was about a Walker and not about a RUUUUUG . . . . sorry, I can't say it!! LOL
Some of us like ANTIQUE style revolvers, not modern versions of one !!!!
To each his (or her) own !!!

45 Deagoon

 

[rodwha]

Even if it weren't much of an improvement I'd still want a walker. It seems with an extra inch and a half of barrel it ought to be able to handle a little more powder. I'm not sure what kind of improvement an additional 5 grns would make, but it would certainly be an improvement. An any improvement is welcomed when bears may be involved, even though they are only of the black variety.

I have to wonder, were I to find myself capable, how well a 180 grn bullet would do from my Ruger pushed by about 40 grns of 3F T7 on a 600 lb cow elk. Seems like it may be a bit under powered to me.

 

[Hellgate]

I have heard of one Walker that sent the barrel assembly down range using a full tilt load of 777. I'm not sure I would fill the chamber to max capacity with 777. The said gun came apart at the wedge cutout in the arbor. Last I heard a gunsmith was trying to convert it to some kind of pepperbox.

On my own Walkers I crushed two wedges in one CAS match using 50 grs FFFg Goex. I bought replacement wedges and pounded the crushed ones back to close enough to their original shape. Since then my Walker load for matches was 44grs FFg + wad+ .454 ball+ grease overball.

 

[45 Dragoon]

There you go!!! A perfect reason for a captured wedge. You can't lose a barrel because a wedge squirts out like a watermelon seed!!! Those kind of things happen when you have all the above "malpractices" stack up against you.
A perf. bore/cyl alignment and forcing cone cut (may be bad factory cut) plus the arbor fix (just because of the way Uberti mass prod. them), will go a long way to solving the wedge diet. The captured wedge will keep it all together.

45 Dragoon

 

[StrawHat]

Send your ROA to Clements for conversion to 50.

http://www.clementscustomguns.com/rugeroldarmy.html

 

[45 Dragoon]

Wow !!! You can soup up a Ruuuu ... sorry!!! Just goes to show you, ALL guns are like Hot Rods . . . . . . . . . .


mighty pricy though but def. plenty of cool factor.

45 Dragoon

Thanks StrawHat!

 

[Pulp]

A bit of advice I heard from someone else about carrying a pistol in bear country.

A pistol might kill a charging bear, but probably not in your lifetime.

 

[rodwha]

I'd prefer to have something than nothing. But I do intend on having bear spray as my first line of defense. Quite frankly I don't even know if I could put the bullet where it counts under pooh your shorts conditions!

I'd love to convert my Old Army, but the cost is just too stiff. If money was no object...

 

[rodwha]

These bears would more likely be black, though they can still be rather large.

 

[72coupe]

Rodwa in 1968 I shot a 2nd model Dragoon and a very nice Centenial 1860. I shot them 8 to 12 hours a day for 30 days with full charges. I was fairly new to balck powder and didn't know that full charges would loosen up a well made pistol.

I thought I could tighten up the Dargoon with a home made wedge. The home made wedge sheared off the end of the arbor. I didn't try to fix the 1860.

Both guns survived very well for 28 days though.

 

[rodwha]

Wow! I'm guessing your wedge was modern harder steel, which wore through the soft steel in no time?

I find it quite odd that this would happen. Uberti claims their guns are built better/stronger than they were originally, yet they claim you can't use anything more powerful than Goex or Pyrodex, and they still show reduced loads for them. They declined to comment on that.

I've seen a write up that "showed" the BP used back then was much like 3F Swiss, which is certainly more powerful than standard Goex/Pyrodex.

My understanding is that the materials are better (steel, though soft, vs iron), and I'd think they'd be able to handle a lifetime's worth of full tilt loads.

 

[kendak]

dragoon; the ROA is an "Antique" style weapon & still KING of the bp pistols...BTW if you going into bear country at least take a modern weapon .44 mag., .454 as backup...had a 1860 Uberti & a dragoon & shot them into scrap in less than 2mo. using 777 & rb...ROA only way to go ...take care

 

[72coupe]

Rodwha I shot more in those 30 days than anyone would shoot in 2 or 3 lifetimes. It was constant shooting during all the daylight hours. I was trying to teach my self to shoot from the hip before I went to Vietnam.

It helped.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Kendak, In looks only. Let's see. Walker used in "war between the states"
Rem. 1858 used in "w.b.s."
Colts 1860 used in "w.b.s."
Colts Mods. 1-3 Dragoon used in "w.b.s."
Colts 1851,1861 Navies used in "w.b.s."
Spiller and Burr, LeMat, Starr, Leech and Rigdon, Dance and Park Bros., Griswold and Gunnison, Manhatten, Rogers and Spencer, and many many more. used in "w.b.s."

Now, Ruger NOT used in "w.b.s." !!!!!!! In fact, don't think it was in use before some time in 1972. So, like the other Colts LOOKING handguns that Ruger produces/produced, they are all MODERN handguns by design (wonder why they look like Colts?).

Anytime you can put 120 yrs. of technology into something new and compare it to an antiquated design, you SHOULD have something better!! The Ruger is a fine handgun and I agree it SHOULD be better than those 120 yrs older. I just don't like them as much as the tuned versions of true REPRODUCTIONS of the great handguns of mid to late 1800's.
Who knows, I may get an ROA some day . . . . . but wont hold my breath!!
(btw, if you had taken the time to get those mass produced ubertis tuned, you may have gotten more time out of them . . . but then again, YOU gotta RUGER . . . . uuuuuuuuuuh)

45 Dragoon

Sorry rodwha, couldn't resist!!! Still think if you get one tuned really well, it should help with wedge probs.(it's been 20 yrs. since I've had a Walker and I didn't know then what I know now). I wouldn't let that stop me. Heck, if you could, just get 2 Walkers and put a Kirst Konverter in one of them!! I love mine!! I can see a Konverted Walker in my future .....

 

[rodwha]

kendak: I don't live where bears are common (we've had some lately due to drought), but where I'd like to move certainly does, and I'm uncertain as to what the laws may be. Some places seem to have a BP only during BP/primitive season, and it's an excuse for another gun, right? I'd think even my ROA with T7 and even a light bullet would do well against a black bear as long as it wasn't one of those freak of nature huge ones.

I'm curious about the damage done to your arms using T7. What gave? If they became scrap it obviously wasn't something easily fixed with a couple of parts.


72coupe: I like going to the range, and will usually fire off about 50 rds from both my rifle and pistol. It has taken up to 6 hours to do this. I've only been given the opportunity to go once a month lately, but hopefully that will change. Still, maybe a more than enough, but I'd prefer more than enough.

Glad to hear that your practice helped! I certainly wouldn't press, but I am curious.


45 Dragoon: Mind it not! I really like my ROA for what it is and that it's built solid, but it doesn't hold the same type of allure the old timers do.

Funny 'cause I began with a sickening feeling down deep when I looked at a Remington, but after having had my Ruger it has softened me up to 'em. I really like the looks of the Colt's, but I'm now torn between the two for different reasons. Guess I need a few of each...

 

[kendak]

Dragoon just trying to help a fellow bp shooter out... the ROA is bulletproof & will stand a lot of abuse...if you want to pack a 6# "antique" around all day go for it ...BTW it was the war of "northern aggression" not war between the states & the south will rise again !!

 

[rodwha]

If I can't pack more than 45 grns of 3F T7 behind a RB in a Walker without it destroying the gun there is no point in using it for that, though I may one day get one just for the historic aspect.

I would like to know more about how your guns deteriorated, and whether or not they could have been fixed (cheaply).