Walther P99 durability/rel.?

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If comparing the 99’s quality to HK USP Compacts and my German-proofed Sig, series, how do you describe them?

Handled one today, first time, and the ‘ok’ DA pull is sort of ok.
As these are Striker-fired but can be decocked to SA, are they considered safe for “carry” in SA?

Having never owned a striker-fired gun, I would imagine that these were designed to be carried in SA.
 
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I would say the USP or a old style P226 feel better built than the Walther P99. But the Walther quality is about the same as the Glock, M&P, or Ruger.

The P99AS is intended to be carried decocked or in the AS mode. In AS mode - which occurs when you pull the slide back to chamber the first round - the pull is light but the trigger is fully forward. It is not safe to carry when the trigger is in SA mode.
 
Thanks. I should have looked up the AS mode, having never noticed this designation before.

It is a 9mm. When you first chamber a round, isn't the trigger set for the same striker function, as with a Glock?
Am confused about the striker/decocker combination. Or is the "AS" an intermediate setting with more drop safety for the striker than while kept in SA?
 
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I've owned a P99 for a good few years now, and over the winter it and my HK P30 were fighting for the spot on my belt to take the place of my Sig P229 Legion. The Walther won out. It doesn't feel quite as bulky as the P30, and for whatever reason I shoot it slightly better.

When I carry the gun, I carry load the magazine, rack a round into the chamber and decock the striker so the gun is DA. Having said that, the gun would be perfectly safe to carry in AS mode (i.e. load the mag, rack the slide to chamber a round and simply holster the gun). DO NOT carry in SA (load mag, rack slide and bring trigger back through the first stage of the pull).

The best way to describe the Walther's trigger in AS and SA is like a two stage rifle trigger. When you charge the gun without decocking, the gun is in AS. In the AS mode, when you begin to press the trigger, the first stage of pull is super light and you'll hear an audible click when you get through the first stage resulting in the gun being in its true SA mode at that point. From there, you pull a little more and the trigger will break all the way toward the back of its travel with about a 4.5 to 5.5 lb. break. If after firing, you were to let the trigger go, it would return to position halfway through the total travel with just a little more take up needed before breaking again.

With respect to build quality, It's every bit as solid and reliable as any other polymer framed gun from Sig, or any offering from HK, Ruger, S&W, Glock, etc. What I will say of the difference between the HK and the P99 (having owned both), something like a USP will feel more solid due to it's being a beefier gun. When compared to a P30, VP, or P2000, the Walther feels right in the same wheelhouse as far as build quality. The difference with the HK's is that some will have a more refined feel to them, specifically the P30 with the way the grip is contoured and textured as compared to the Walther. It is worth keeping in mind, however, that about 10 years or so separate the introduction of the P99 as compared to the P30. When the P99 was introduced in 96 or 97, it was something to behold with its ergonomics and having the ability to change out the back strap to fit hands of different sizes.
 
I've got 3 Walthers (2PPQ M1s and a PPS M1) and 4HKs (HK45T, P30L, VP9, P2000).

I'd be hard pressed to state the HKs are built better. I've taken multiple classes with both my PPQs and HKs and never had an issue with either. One of my PPQs has a little over 12K through it and all I've done is replaced a recoil spring when it started getting sluggish returning to battery. I agree with Winkman, my HKs might "feel" better, but I can't tell a bit of difference in where it matters which is function.
 
In many ways, the P99 can be treated like a hammer fired firearm. As far as quality goes, I prefer it to the Sigs and HKs I have fired.

As these are Striker-fired but can be decocked to SA, are they considered safe for “carry” in SA?

Yes. With the AS model, the trigger weight is less than DA but the same length of pull. On my P99 the AS measures right at 4 pounds. The SA trigger pull is still 4 pounds but shorter, much like the trigger distance on a long trigger 1911. That being said I carry mine decocked the vast majority of the time. As with any other firearm, with a proper holster it is a very safe firearm.

It is a 9mm. When you first chamber a round, isn't the trigger set for the same striker function, as with a Glock?

Not really. With a Glock, the striker is partially cocked all the time. The trigger pull completely cocks the striker then releases it. When you first chamber a P99, the striker is completely cocked and the trigger is in AS mode: light pull, long distance.
 
Have you read the Walther Safety & Instruction Manual? The Anti-Stress mode is an interesting system. Look at Page 22 for the specifics of the Anti-Stress mode. http://www.waltherarms.com/wp-content/uploads/Instruction-Manual-P99.pdf

Personally, I prefer to carry the 99 series AS guns in chambered/decocked mode, making the initial trigger pull DA, and subsequent shots SA.

I carried the S&W licensed version in .40, the SW9940, as an issued weapon for several years. I also own a SW9940, as well as the compact 9mm version, the SW999c. Both are the Walther 99 AS action.

I went through the SW99/P99 armorer class 3 times, in order to support them as an armorer.

I rather like the 99 series, with a strong preference for the AS mode models. I don't care for the QA (Quick-Action), or as S&W named it, the SW990L (but without the decocking/field-stripping button in the slide). Nor do I care for the DAO version.

I've never tried the PPQ, as its SAO mode didn't interest me (when I could still order one using my former LE exemption for buying off-roster guns here in CA). Besides, the SA mode of the AS models had a little bit lighter SA trigger than the PPQ (according to the Walther info and the PPQ armorer manual).

I acknowledge I prefer the AS model models because I carried issued S&W TDA (DA/SA) pistols for work and off-duty for many years.

The 99 series has been revised periodically, and it's demonstrated itself to be a strong, durable and reliable design. It's been more of an international LE/MIL choice than one that was heavily marketed in the US.

As an armorer, it's somewhere between the Glock and the M&P in "simplicity" and ease of maintenance and repair. It's possible for someone unfamiliar and untrained in supporting and repairing the design to design to damage it if trying to disassemble it. (Which could be said of any system, comes to that.)

I've seen a couple of SW99's (one each in 9 & .40) that have been fired from a few to many thousands of rounds. One of mine has seen more than 16K rounds, and the other one fired maybe half that (but I made up for that by firing similar agency models for many thousands of rounds). I was told that back when S&W was selling their licensed version, they kept one available at their range for demo and range use. It was a .40, and they logged each round fired. They told me the gun was intentionally left uncleaned and unlubricated, and with the original recoil spring assembly, which is obviously abusive and not generally recommended, as a long term test-bed. Last I was told, they'd logged more than 75K trouble-free rounds through it.

I still like my own couple of 99's, and have no plans to get rid of them as long as I'm able to continue shooting. Given my druthers, I tend to prefer the 99 series chambered in 9, although the .40 isn't bad. I didn't care enough for the SW9945 I tried for T&E to place an order one.
 
I have a SW99-45ACP. It is my understanding this was the least produced variant of the S&W-&-Walther joint venture. If memory serves me correctly there were issues with the magazine springs and S&W sent me new springs and acknowledged there were problems with the spring-rate thus the magazine follower would not activate the slide stop to hold the slide open when the last round was fired. Other than that problem free.
 
People often confused the SW99 as a real German Walther. It is not and it is not as good, they were discontinued and ditched by US PDs for other guns. They were a weird sort of hybrid that S&W managed to botch. The all German (current made) P99 is a much better arm.
 
I have a SW99-45ACP. It is my understanding this was the least produced variant of the S&W-&-Walther joint venture. If memory serves me correctly there were issues with the magazine springs and S&W sent me new springs and acknowledged there were problems with the spring-rate thus the magazine follower would not activate the slide stop to hold the slide open when the last round was fired. Other than that problem free.

Before they came out with the PPQ45, I had my eye on getting the SW99-45. I gritted my teeth that Walther had not made a 45 at the time, and would have to settle for a Walther/Smith hybrid. Now I have the PPQ45 and a P99 or PPQ in 9mm on my short list.
 
Before they came out with the PPQ45, I had my eye on getting the SW99-45. I gritted my teeth that Walther had not made a 45 at the time, and would have to settle for a Walther/Smith hybrid. Now I have the PPQ45 and a P99 or PPQ in 9mm on my short list.

Do you like it (ppq45)?
 
I have a P99 A/S that is my occasional carry gun. I switch it in and out with my HK P2000.

I previously had one with over 3k rounds years ago, before I ended up selling it. Never had a problem with it. I missed it, and bought another this past year.

I too carry it decocked. I prefer DA/SA guns for a reason, so I don't bother carrying it in A/S mode, personally.
 
People often confused the SW99 as a real German Walther. It is not and it is not as good, they were discontinued and ditched by US PDs for other guns. They were a weird sort of hybrid that S&W managed to botch. The all German (current made) P99 is a much better arm.

"They were a weird sort of hybrid that S&W managed to botch" I have as previously written the SW99-AS-45ACP. The frame is manufactured by Walther and apparently the slide, barrel and associated parts by S&W. So exactly what did S&W manage to botch on that particular model?
 
Do you like it (ppq45)?

I test fired one at the range because I had some loose 45 rounds rolling around. It fit my hand much better than the XD45 I had several years ago. Which I sold because it felt awkward in my hand. It also has a lower bore axis than the XD45 so it shoots closer to a 1911 without as much weight. The only thing I don't like about it is the button mag release. I prefer the paddles like with my PPS M1 and P99.
 
People often confused the SW99 as a real German Walther. It is not and it is not as good, they were discontinued and ditched by US PDs for other guns. They were a weird sort of hybrid that S&W managed to botch. The all German (current made) P99 is a much better arm.

The SW99 frames, all frame parts and all of the smaller slide parts (meaning except for the bare slide and barrel) were produced and provided by Walther. Aside from some minor cosmetic and ergonomic changes requested for the frame by S&W, they were the same as were used for the P99's. Some of the minor changes requested by S&W were eventually incorporated in the Walther models, such as the accessory rail type, and the elimination of the prominent "hooked" part of the frame above the grip (to reduce pressure into the nerves in the web of the shooter's hand during recoil, we were told).

S&W engineers even provided the hi-speed imaging to Walther engineers that helped finally identify the early slide lock condition that occurred in both early P99 .40's and the SW9940's. It was eventually determined that a revision to the magazine body, at the slide stop lever tab cutout, and a revision to the follower, resolved the early slide lock issue. We were monitoring S&W's attempts to help identify this issue with some early SW9940's (as was reported by some SW9940 LE users, but which had also been reported by owners of the early P99 .40's), and I remember being told (by someone from the factory) of some of the minor revisions being requested and attempted by both S&W and Walther engineers at that time. Finally, Walther requested the magazine body & follower change to address the issue. As I recall, hi-speed imaging done by S&W revealed that it was the recoil forces allowing the 3rd or 4th round in the magazine stack to wiggle laterally as the rounds were rising, under recoil, that was bumping the slide stop lever's inner tab.

Walther also eventually designed an interesting magazine safety for the Walther frames they were offering for the S&W licensed 99's. It was some time after my 3rd armorer class had occurred, but I'd heard about it during the development stage, when S&W was negotiating with Walther to design one for possible LE agency sales. I never got a chance to handle one in person, but I've seen a couple pictures of one that was finally shipped to the US and sold.

S&W never "botched" anything in their licensed 99's.

They actually made some nice revisions, such as through-hardening/heat treating their entire slides and barrels (versus the zone hardening done in the Walther slides and barrels, as that was reportedly all that was required in order to meet the older Proof House requirements in Europe). They revised the chamber mouth design at least a couple times (chamber support, feedramp and roll-over notch) compared to the original specs based on the Walther barrels, and revised the bottom of the barrel to incorporate a machined relief cut for the rear of the RSA to better clear the barrel (that noisy scrunchy sound, as the barrel scraped over the edges of the spring coils). I saw a couple of versions of that revision come through in new barrels, as the engineers were apparently refining the length of the relief cut.

Another nice revision adopted by S&W was to change over to using the "optional" heavier extractor spring in most of their 99/990L models. This was actually the same spring used in the magazine catch, and was later listed used in some Walther pistols as the new standard spring, if i remember a Walther parts list I saw some years ago. S&W engineers also revised the orientation of the extractor spring, reversing the how it was inserted into the slide's spring hole. We were told that this reduced the chance for an incorrectly seated spring (the large end was a tight/press fit in the hole), and the smaller end being inserted made for a more flexible fit and function.

I saw some refinement in the way Walther extractors were radiused and polished over time, and how they machined their locking blocks, too.

S&W requested a longer and stronger tension slide stop lever wire spring, but it had an "open" hooked end, versus the shorter closed/loop design of the Walther spring. S&W finally provided some of the Walther designed springs when it was reported that some issued users were inattentive during cleaning practices and were stuffing towels/rags into the mag well, which hooked on the wire springs and bent them. The closed/loop design might not have been as strongly tensioned, but it was less susceptible to that user-induced damage. ;)

Granted, S&W did do something a bit odd with their 990L models, which were their licensed version of the Walther Quick-Action (QA) model. The Walther QA incorporated a small decocking "field stripping" button in the slide, to decock the striker firing pin and allow for field-stripping. For whatever weird reason, S&W decided to eliminate the small button in their 990L slides, and have the user/owner press the trigger to decock the pistol for field-stripping. When I asked in a class once, I was told that the consensus was that corporate had seemingly decided that keeping the field-stripping manner similar to their other plastic model (the Sigma) was likely less confusing. Dunno, but that was the conjecture.

S&W apparently didn't produce many (if any) of the early 990, which was the original DAO model of the 99 series (later called by Walther the P99DAO), although they did agree to make that odd SW99NJ model, which earned it's own spot in one of the SW99 armorer manuals. There's a lot of rumor about that short run of guns made for the NJSP, but the long and short of it (according to what we were told by factory sources) is that depsite some political machinations of the time, that independent testing performed by HP White Labs revealed none of the reported problems in extended testing, and the guns were later sold off by S&W through their distributor network. As I recall, the mean rounds between failure observed by HP White Labs was very respectable for any duty pistols of that time (as was the in-house factory testing).

Now, Walther was busy making its own ongoing refinements to their models, many of which weren't easily seen by the naked eye. The design of the sear housing block required a revision to the inner dimensions of the frame, and the change from a trigger guide post to an adjustable lever also required a frame dimension change. (The difference in the sear housing block guides means they are not interchangeable between those 2 revisions, while an earlier revision of the shape of the bottom of the SHB merely required replacing one tube pin in the block with the previous one when replacing a SHB, due to a dimension change that resulted in a change to the length of the pin.) Then, of course, Walther introduced their ambi slide stop lever design, an additional trigger option, the PPQ, etc.

The 99 series is an outstanding design, and let's not forget that it introduced the idea of the replaceable backstraps. It never really received the attention in the US that it gathered internationally, though. Talking with a couple of the guys at the former Walther America business that was operated by S&W (during the 13 years of the Strategic Alliance between Walther and S&W), and within the S&W factory for the SW99/990L production, it wasn't uncommon to hear that Walther didn't seem overly interested in having S&W do much in the way of heavily advertising their P99's. Presumably, now that Walther had gone to the effort of creating their very own import company and headquarters in the US, that's been changing. :)

It's also nice (for owners) that Walther has finally adopted a limited lifetime warranty program for their firearms, versus the previous 1-year warranty they offered. (The PPQ was the first model line to get that warranty "upgrade", and that was listed as only being for American buyers of the older PPQ models.) I remember referring one P99 owner (from the forums) to S&W because of a P99 slide that snapped part at the rear edge of the rear sight dovetail cut. As I remember, S&W was told that Walther would not warranty the broken P99 slide because it was a few years old, so the S&W customer service people found an "extra" new slide from a P99 Titanium model in their repair dept and offered it to the owner, at no charge. They ate the cost of the slide in the interest of Customer Relations, even though it was a Walther product that wasn't considered to be under warranty any longer.
 
The SW99 frames, all frame parts and all of the smaller slide parts (meaning except for the bare slide and barrel) were produced and provided by Walther. Aside from some minor cosmetic and ergonomic changes requested for the frame by S&W, they were the same as were used for the P99's. Some of the minor changes requested by S&W were eventually incorporated in the Walther models, such as the accessory rail type, and the elimination of the prominent "hooked" part of the frame above the grip (to reduce pressure into the nerves in the web of the shooter's hand during recoil, we were told).

S&W engineers even provided the hi-speed imaging to Walther engineers that helped finally identify the early slide lock condition that occurred in both early P99 .40's and the SW9940's. It was eventually determined that a revision to the magazine body, at the slide stop lever tab cutout, and a revision to the follower, resolved the early slide lock issue. We were monitoring S&W's attempts to help identify this issue with some early SW9940's (as was reported by some SW9940 LE users, but which had also been reported by owners of the early P99 .40's), and I remember being told (by someone from the factory) of some of the minor revisions being requested and attempted by both S&W and Walther engineers at that time. Finally, Walther requested the magazine body & follower change to address the issue. As I recall, hi-speed imaging done by S&W revealed that it was the recoil forces allowing the 3rd or 4th round in the magazine stack to wiggle laterally as the rounds were rising, under recoil, that was bumping the slide stop lever's inner tab.

Walther also eventually designed an interesting magazine safety for the Walther frames they were offering for the S&W licensed 99's. It was some time after my 3rd armorer class had occurred, but I'd heard about it during the development stage, when S&W was negotiating with Walther to design one for possible LE agency sales. I never got a chance to handle one in person, but I've seen a couple pictures of one that was finally shipped to the US and sold.

S&W never "botched" anything in their licensed 99's.

They actually made some nice revisions, such as through-hardening/heat treating their entire slides and barrels (versus the zone hardening done in the Walther slides and barrels, as that was reportedly all that was required in order to meet the older Proof House requirements in Europe). They revised the chamber mouth design at least a couple times (chamber support, feedramp and roll-over notch) compared to the original specs based on the Walther barrels, and revised the bottom of the barrel to incorporate a machined relief cut for the rear of the RSA to better clear the barrel (that noisy scrunchy sound, as the barrel scraped over the edges of the spring coils). I saw a couple of versions of that revision come through in new barrels, as the engineers were apparently refining the length of the relief cut.

Another nice revision adopted by S&W was to change over to using the "optional" heavier extractor spring in most of their 99/990L models. This was actually the same spring used in the magazine catch, and was later listed used in some Walther pistols as the new standard spring, if i remember a Walther parts list I saw some years ago. S&W engineers also revised the orientation of the extractor spring, reversing the how it was inserted into the slide's spring hole. We were told that this reduced the chance for an incorrectly seated spring (the large end was a tight/press fit in the hole), and the smaller end being inserted made for a more flexible fit and function.

I saw some refinement in the way Walther extractors were radiused and polished over time, and how they machined their locking blocks, too.

S&W requested a longer and stronger tension slide stop lever wire spring, but it had an "open" hooked end, versus the shorter closed/loop design of the Walther spring. S&W finally provided some of the Walther designed springs when it was reported that some issued users were inattentive during cleaning practices and were stuffing towels/rags into the mag well, which hooked on the wire springs and bent them. The closed/loop design might not have been as strongly tensioned, but it was less susceptible to that user-induced damage. ;)

Granted, S&W did do something a bit odd with their 990L models, which were their licensed version of the Walther Quick-Action (QA) model. The Walther QA incorporated a small decocking "field stripping" button in the slide, to decock the striker firing pin and allow for field-stripping. For whatever weird reason, S&W decided to eliminate the small button in their 990L slides, and have the user/owner press the trigger to decock the pistol for field-stripping. When I asked in a class once, I was told that the consensus was that corporate had seemingly decided that keeping the field-stripping manner similar to their other plastic model (the Sigma) was likely less confusing. Dunno, but that was the conjecture.

S&W apparently didn't produce many (if any) of the early 990, which was the original DAO model of the 99 series (later called by Walther the P99DAO), although they did agree to make that odd SW99NJ model, which earned it's own spot in one of the SW99 armorer manuals. There's a lot of rumor about that short run of guns made for the NJSP, but the long and short of it (according to what we were told by factory sources) is that depsite some political machinations of the time, that independent testing performed by HP White Labs revealed none of the reported problems in extended testing, and the guns were later sold off by S&W through their distributor network. As I recall, the mean rounds between failure observed by HP White Labs was very respectable for any duty pistols of that time (as was the in-house factory testing).

Now, Walther was busy making its own ongoing refinements to their models, many of which weren't easily seen by the naked eye. The design of the sear housing block required a revision to the inner dimensions of the frame, and the change from a trigger guide post to an adjustable lever also required a frame dimension change. (The difference in the sear housing block guides means they are not interchangeable between those 2 revisions, while an earlier revision of the shape of the bottom of the SHB merely required replacing one tube pin in the block with the previous one when replacing a SHB, due to a dimension change that resulted in a change to the length of the pin.) Then, of course, Walther introduced their ambi slide stop lever design, an additional trigger option, the PPQ, etc.

The 99 series is an outstanding design, and let's not forget that it introduced the idea of the replaceable backstraps. It never really received the attention in the US that it gathered internationally, though. Talking with a couple of the guys at the former Walther America business that was operated by S&W (during the 13 years of the Strategic Alliance between Walther and S&W), and within the S&W factory for the SW99/990L production, it wasn't uncommon to hear that Walther didn't seem overly interested in having S&W do much in the way of heavily advertising their P99's. Presumably, now that Walther had gone to the effort of creating their very own import company and headquarters in the US, that's been changing. :)

It's also nice (for owners) that Walther has finally adopted a limited lifetime warranty program for their firearms, versus the previous 1-year warranty they offered. (The PPQ was the first model line to get that warranty "upgrade", and that was listed as only being for American buyers of the older PPQ models.) I remember referring one P99 owner (from the forums) to S&W because of a P99 slide that snapped part at the rear edge of the rear sight dovetail cut. As I remember, S&W was told that Walther would not warranty the broken P99 slide because it was a few years old, so the S&W customer service people found an "extra" new slide from a P99 Titanium model in their repair dept and offered it to the owner, at no charge. They ate the cost of the slide in the interest of Customer Relations, even though it was a Walther product that wasn't considered to be under warranty any longer.

Well don't you know a lot? Impressive, thank you. It's crazy that some people will buy a Canik (pronounced Janik?? Whatever) when a Walther made in GERMANY can be had for not much more.
 
Well don't you know a lot? Impressive, thank you. It's crazy that some people will buy a Canik (pronounced Janik?? Whatever) when a Walther made in GERMANY can be had for not much more.

Not really (know a lot). Just had some time to become acquainted with them after the armorer classes, calls back to the factory and using/owning some of them. I've actually had more armorer classes for a couple other makes/models of guns over the years (such as 4 classes for S&W 3rd gens, 5 for Glocks and 5 for M&P's).

Between mine and the issued SW99's I've used, I've put a few ten's of thousands of rounds downrange with them. A friend of mine shoots more than me (has his own range in the mountains), and he's got a couple SW99's (9/.40) that have seen more than 65-70K rounds fired through each of them. I did have to replace the SHB on one of them, due to a broken ejector (molded into the SHB) at about 52K rounds.

There's been a couple other gun companies who have since been licensed to make their own 99-series guns, too, but I've not owned or used them, nor do I know if the companies even offer armorer training if any LE agencies who might be interested in them.

The 99 series are pretty good guns, all things considered. They just never got as much attention stateside as they deserved.

S&W mostly stopped offering armorer classes after they discontinued the 99/990L models (because they had their own M&P model line). They were offering good incentives for agencies using the SW99's to change over to the new M&P's back then. I knew a couple agencies who made the trade back at that time. (My own agency transitioned the small number of SW99's we had in-service, which was only about 50-odd of them, when we replaced our older inventory of early production 3rd gen's, and 99's, with new production TSW's.) I say "mostly" because one time when I was talking with one of the guys giving armorer classes, he told me he'd just given a 99 class for a group of people still carrying SW99's at a fed facility, and that they'd not yet wished to trade them for something else. Go figure, right? ;)
 
SW99-45ACP which I acquired in October of 2003 brought out of retirement today for a range session. Reread the owners manual (black and red lettering verbiage). Proceeded with the basic disassemble for cleaning (not required) and lubrication (required). Loaded the (8) nine round capacity magazines.Found the Milt Sparks holster and magazine pouch. Used the standard IDPA target at 10-&-20-Yds. Of the 72Rds fired (2) floated out the top of the of the 8" scoring ring with the remaining off center to the right side of the ring. Used my standard load practice load 230Gr FMJ - mixed head stamp cases - Winchester or CCI primers and W231. Sight picture front sight focused and or simply indexing the outline of the pistol on the target.
 
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