Walther PPQ

[Apocalypse-Now]

No way that junk S&W pushes could compete with the PPQ.

the m&p has been out for some years and is proven, the ppq just came out and is not. ya got a crystal ball or something?

 

[priler]

if you actually know about the PPQ then you know it's not new at all and has already been "proven".

 

[balance 740]

Pizzagunner, I laughed, but just incase you were serious...

I am happy to be one of the (four dozen ) fans who appreciate the P99 and the PPQ. The P99 has been out for 15 years now, and while it is not as popular as other polymer pistols, it is as good, or better than most in my opinion.

Walther does not do a good job of marketing their pistols in the USA. Yes, the PPQ has one magazine cover now, but if Walther treats the PPQ like they did the P99, I bet it doesn't get much more than that in the future. The P99 was in magazines too, 15 years ago, and while it is still in production, I can't remember seeing one add for it, ever. Compare that to the Glock or XD ads (both of which I've seen on the Walther forum ) that seem to dominate the magazines and internet sites.

I honestly don't know why this is, but it certainly seems that Walther doesn't care for the US market. In their history, they never even made a .45 pistol. They seem to have all their focus on the European market. S&W handles importation and service for Walther pistols in the USA, and they have their own polymer pistols to sell.

As far as the pistols, I doubt you will find a more high quality polymer pistol than the P99 or PPQ. Personally, I'd put them up there with Sig and H&K. Both are capable of a "better than most" level of accuracy for a combat pistol http://www.lenaburgs.net/images/p99 vs USP/p99 vs USP 9mm Gun Tests May 98.jpg and both are very reliable designs.

But the thing I like most about these two pistols, is that they are very easy to shoot. The P99 and PPQ have some of the best grips and triggers on any combat pistols I have tried, metal or plastic, and this is probably the reason why I can shoot these two better than almost every other pistol I have tried to like in the time I've been shooting.

You say that the P99 has had "a bunch of trigger system changes and even more marketing designations", and I agree. But what you should consider, is that the P99 was Walther's ONLY polymer pistol for about a decade, one model, and still in production today. Instead of going the Sig route, and making one hundred different colors and models, or going the H&K route and making ten models with nine variants each with optional manual safeties, Walther just made one model, and made different trigger variants of it to reach different markets and win contracts.

Apocalypse-Now, while the PPQ was just released, the P99Q has been selling in Europe as a police pistol for a few years now, and the P99Q is the same pistol as the PPQ, but with a decocking function. The designs of the P99, PPQ, and P99Q are so similar, that I doubt that the PPQ will suffer from any design-related issues anytime soon.

Obscure? Well I kind of like having a pistol that nobody else has, and shooting it better.

 

[ExTank]

^ Word!

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

if you actually know about the PPQ then you know it's not new at all and has already been "proven".

where, in an alternate universe?

Apocalypse-Now, while the PPQ was just released, the P99Q has been selling in Europe as a police pistol for a few years now, and the P99Q is the same pistol as the PPQ, but with a decocking function. The designs of the P99, PPQ, and P99Q are so similar, that I doubt that the PPQ will suffer from any design-related issues anytime soon.

meaningless. a different variant that's been on the market in Europe for only a couple years doesn't equate to proven. not to me anyway. help yourself if you like being a beta tester though.

 

[priler]

the PPQ is a variant of the p99 which has been in production since 1996 and R&D goes a bit further back than that. in fact,the p99's philosophy of construction and design is actually related to the glock because 15 years earlier some of the same engineers that worked on the p99 also worked on the glock,including Horst Wesp who worked for glock.

the PPQ is an up-graded version of the p99 Q(german police) and the p99 RAD(polish military) which have both been in service in europe for some time. there have been several trigger configurations because of the desires of the separate agencies. granted,the PPQ has a hugely improved trigger to the p99 QA(the model it replaces) but that's because walther is marketing the PPQ to the american market and it's specifically designed to have a better trigger out of the box than it's competition(similar trigger types on service pistols) here without any need for after market kits to improve the trigger.

the PPQ does not even need to "prove" itself because there is no new technology involved,..same materials,same design,same everything except for cosmetics and a better trigger than the QA. this same trigger existed before in other p99 variants but now it has a shorter stroke,a lighter pull and the same great short reset as the p99 AS.it's also very smooth.

now,these are the facts. you can accept them,or you can choose to bury your head in the sand and ignore them.

i'm willing to bet any amount of money that the PPQ will not go through the same teething problems as other manufacturers have had because,again,there's actually no new technology involved,which is smart on walthers part. of course,"built on a monday" is possible for even the best companies. however,all the "beta testing" was done in the 90s.

for example,and you may not remember this but i do,the s&w m&p had to go through several problems early on while already in customers hands,..mags dropping out by themselves which was a defect in mag release material iirc,...accuracy issues in some 9mm versions which has been fixed,..strikers breaking for those who do alot of training like dry fire drills,...all problems that should not exist in current generation m&p because s&w is a good company and they put their "feet to the fire" and tried to fix all the early problems as quickly as they could,..but the fact is,the guns were already out there when the problems showed up.

 

[balance 740]

So far I'm loving being the beta tester for the PPQ. But if you take the slides off a PPQ and a P99 you will see that the beta testing was done 15 years ago. As a matter of fact, you can put the P99 slide on the PPQ and vice versa, and the pistols will still work. If you don't believe it, that's just fine though, and you are welcome to your opinion. But like I said before, "I doubt that the PPQ will suffer from any design-related issues anytime soon".

Proven? How many issues has the proven M&P had in the time that it has been on the market. I never really paid attention to the reports, but off the top of my head I remember rust issues, mags falling out, and accuracy issues with the FS9 model. Have these issues been resolved? I ask because I may actually pick one up someday. I'm looking for someone with an Apex kit to let me try their's out first though.

As to the Walther owners saying that Walther should get away from S&W and do a better job in the US, well, I feel differently. S&W has some of the best customer service in the US should you ever need to use it, and as long as Walther is making enough money to stay in business, I could care less how popular these pistols get. If other people don't know how good these pistols are, or how easy they are to shoot, that's their problem.

 

[rjk2475]

so, it appears the PPQ doesn't yet have a big following(at least on this forum)and though i like what i read, i may stay with a XDm and await the proven period

 

[wild cat mccane]

Hum...the P99RAD has been out longer than the XDm.

The P99RAD is the same as the PPQ.

The P99QA is also the same as the PPQ. The PPQ is only unique to the QA it replaces by having a lighter trigger and no decocker button. They are the same gun. QA is 15 years old?

 

[HOOfan_1]

Is there any possible way that the USA is not the largest market in the world for handguns? I thought even the European companies designed their pistols with the US market in mind. How can Walther not concentrate on selling in the US?

 

[Fishbed77]

Is there any possible way that the USA is not the largest market in the world for handguns? I thought even the European companies designed their pistols with the US market in mind. How can Walther not concentrate on selling in the US?

My only assumption is that they must feel that they haven't had too. You have to remember that the P99 is pretty big in the LE market in Germany (and some other European contries as well).

You also have to keep in mind that Walther's parent company, Umarex, already makes a lot of money selling airguns and airsoft products (and some lower-quality guns that are marketed as Walthers, such as the PK380 and P22). Add in the liscensing revenues from the S&W-manufactured PPK and the Magnum Research P99 clones.

By the way - the only "real" Walthers are the ones manufactered by Walther in Ulm - the P99, PPQ, and PPS.

 

[wild cat mccane]

Canada too.

 

[Siggyboy]

My only assumption is that they must feel that they haven't had too. You have to remember that the P99 is pretty big in the LE market in Germany (and some other European contries as well).

You also have to keep in mind that Walther's parent company, Umarex, already makes a lot of money selling airguns and airsoft products (and some lower-quality guns that are marketed as Walthers, such as the PK380 and P22). Add in the liscensing revenues from the S&W-manufactured PPK and the Magnum Research P99 clones.

By the way - the only "real" Walthers are the ones manufactered by Walther in Ulm - the P99, PPQ, and PPS.

Even in Germany Walther's reputation also seems to be on the low down. It seems that most German police are using HKs these days, with some (such as in Bavaria) still using the venerable P7 and others using the P2000 and other modern HKs. Not many Walthers around that I have seen.

 

[sigarms228]

Even in Germany Walther's reputation also seems to be on the low down. It seems that most German police are using HKs these days, with some (such as in Bavaria) still using the venerable P7 and others using the P2000 and other modern HKs. Not many Walthers around that I have seen.

Do you have any specifics on probelms with Walthers reputation such as the P99/PPQ?? First I have head of it.

FYI HK has a VERY small presence in the US and it has it has been losing out to Glock and S&W to some agencies that used to use HK such as the Washington Sate Patrol as recently reported. SIG also has much stronger presence in the US than HK.

 

[Fishbed77]

Even in Germany Walther's reputation also seems to be on the low down. It seems that most German police are using HKs these days, with some (such as in Bavaria) still using the venerable P7 and others using the P2000 and other modern HKs. Not many Walthers around that I have seen.

OK - copying this straight from Wikipedia:

"41,000 P99DAO pistols purchased in 2005 for the North Rhine-Westphalia Police. The State police of Rhineland-Palatinate procurred approx. 10,000 units of the P99Q. The P99Q has also been ordered by the police forces of Hamburg (8,000 pistols), Bremen (2,000 pistols) and Schleswig-Holstein (8,000 pistols) with deliveries between 2009 and 2017"

Now that's not US Army M9 contract numbers or anything, but that's still a LOT of guns, and those are only recent acquisitions.

 

[group17]

SHHHH! Don't advertise how good Walther 9mm pistols are.

I have been able to pick up slightly used models for under $400.
Never thought I could afford one. Since they launched the PPQ you can get the P99 for $450 NIB. Talk about deals.

 

[balance 740]

And what's funny is that P99 pistols are almost never brought up when people ask in threads for a good pistol around $400. Considering the P99 MSRP is $825, this has to be one of the best deals out there.

 

[Siggyboy]

Do you have any specifics on probelms with Walthers reputation such as the P99/PPQ?? First I have head of it.

FYI HK has a VERY small presence in the US and it has it has been losing out to Glock and S&W to some agencies that used to use HK such as the Washington Sate Patrol as recently reported. SIG also has much stronger presence in the US than HK.

I'm not saying there is any problem with Walther's reputation. I'm only saying that they seem to be less visible than the other big German names such as HK and Sig.

 

[sigarms228]

I'm not saying there is any problem with Walther's reputation. I'm only saying that they seem to be less visible than the other big German names such as HK and Sig.

Thanks for the update!

 

[rjk2475]

so if the P99 and PPQ both feel good, but you can't shoot them, what's the criteria for making a choice?

 

[Fishbed77]

so if the P99 and PPQ both feel good, but you can't shoot them, what's the criteria for making a choice?

Do you want a DA/SA system? If so, get the P99AS.

Do you want a Glock-style precocked system with constant trigger pull? If so, get the PPQ.

Other than that - not a whole lot of difference. The P99 is better-looking and doesn't require a trigger pull for dissassembly (easiest break-down of any gun I've ever encountered). The PPQ's rail might be a little more flexible (both are Weaver rails, but the PPQ's allows for a few extra attachment points).

 

[Pilot]

I am thinking of getting a polymer 9MM (all mine are steel or aluminum alloy) and the PPQ is right up there. Sounds great!

 

[balance 740]

rjk2474, I don't understand the question.

You make the criteria for making a choice.

Or are you asking what the differences are between these two pistols?

Pilot, in the short time that I've owned my PPQ, it has given me the impression that it is a great pistol for me.

 

[rjk2475]

asking what the differences are between these two pistols?

since i do not have acess to shooting either; is the PPQ replacing one of the P99 systems?

 

[balance 740]

Ah, I understand now.

After (or maybe before, as I'm not completely sure) the PPQ came out, the P99 QA, with the constant trigger, was discontinued. So the PPQ took the P99 QA pistol's place in the Walther product line-up.

One member of the Walther forum asked Walther directly if the P99 AS, with the DA/SA trigger, was going to be discontinued as well, and Walther replied that the P99 AS was selling very well around the world, and that Walther had no current plans to discontinue the AS model. This response was given only a few months ago, so I doubt that the AS model will be discontinued anytime soon.

I think the only reason to chose either the P99 or PPQ over the other, would be your personal preferance in the grip and trigger, as these are really the only differences between these two pistols like Fishbed77 said. I'm carrying the PPQ now, as I prefer the constant action trigger of it, but if I preferred DA/SA triggers, I'd pick the P99. I had no problem carrying the P99 before the PPQ came out.